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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

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ORIGINAL: fmfclwu
Funny, this thread got to 14 posts without anyone pointing out that the OP mistook a hypothetical number the IRS pulled out of its ass for a real study of health insurance plan costs.

so the irs is picking worst case scenarios for political reasons?

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The IRS's assumption that the cheapest plan for a family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan... “The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000,” the regulation says.

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ORIGINAL: fmfclwu
The IRS is making up completely hypothetical numbers for illustrative purposes. Let's try a less politically polarizing example to explain.

Imagine my fraternity has a rule: "Any financial decision involving less than the going cost of a keg of Budweiser can be made by the Treasurer without approval from the rest of the brotherhood. For example, if the current cost of a keg of Budweiser at the local liquor store is $500, and a decision about whether or not to purchase a $300 item comes up, the Treasurer does not need to seek approval of the brotherhood to make the purchase."

Now, would anyone rationally look at that paragraph and conclude "OMG! A keg of Budweiser just shot up in price to $500!!!"? And yet, that's exactly what conservatives are doing to the hypothetical IRS example, because at the slightest scent of something bad for Obama, their rational thinking completely disengages.

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

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ORIGINAL: fmfclwu
The IRS is making up completely hypothetical numbers for illustrative purposes. Let's try a less politically polarizing example to explain.

Imagine my fraternity has a rule: "Any financial decision involving less than the going cost of a keg of Budweiser can be made by the Treasurer without approval from the rest of the brotherhood. For example, if the current cost of a keg of Budweiser at the local liquor store is $500, and a decision about whether or not to purchase a $300 item comes up, the Treasurer does not need to seek approval of the brotherhood to make the purchase."

Now, would anyone rationally look at that paragraph and conclude "OMG! A keg of Budweiser just shot up in price to $500!!!"? And yet, that's exactly what conservatives are doing to the hypothetical IRS example, because at the slightest scent of something bad for Obama, their rational thinking completely disengages.

so ya either think obamacare doesnt cost 20k for a family of five on 120k or that the figures are being misrepresented by tha cons? probably tha second but not sure i buy it coz far as i see tha example was stated as being under certain conditions only.

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ORIGINAL: fmfclwu
I think the IRS put as much thought into the 20k figure as I put into the $500 dollar figure in my hypothetical example. They need an example to illustrate their calculations, so they just made a bunch of numbers up. The numbers are just as made up as the people's names.

I think that conservatives took the made up numbers and ran with them as fact because they fit the conservative narrative. Checking to see if the $20k figure was made up or real could only lead to a bad outcome (the number is made up, thus can't be used against Obama), so they didn't check.

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

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ORIGINAL: fmfclwu
I think the IRS put as much thought into the 20k figure as I put into the $500 dollar figure in my hypothetical example. They need an example to illustrate their calculations, so they just made a bunch of numbers up. The numbers are just as made up as the people's names.

I think that conservatives took the made up numbers and ran with them as fact because they fit the conservative narrative. Checking to see if the $20k figure was made up or real could only lead to a bad outcome (the number is made up, thus can't be used against Obama), so they didn't check.

so tha irs is lying when they say "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000."? thats knda hard ta believe so a credible cite would be helpful.

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ORIGINAL: fmfclwu
Let's use a little common sense. Is the IRS lying when it says "In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10?" Or is it making up a hypothetical example? Obviously it's making up a hypothetical, unless you want to sit here and tell me that in 2016, there will literally be such a family. So why, halfway through a made up, hypothetical example, are we supposed to believe that the IRS is conducting a detailed model to project an actual estimated cost of a specific type of health insurance plan 4 years in the future?

If this is an actual government study, which carefully projects future costs, and seriously finds that the cheapest plan available in 2016 will cost $20k, don't you think a single reputable news organization would run with the story? Why is the reporting of this number as fact found only on rightwing propaganda sites?

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ORIGINAL: fmfclwu

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

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ORIGINAL: fmfclwu
I think the IRS put as much thought into the 20k figure as I put into the $500 dollar figure in my hypothetical example. They need an example to illustrate their calculations, so they just made a bunch of numbers up. The numbers are just as made up as the people's names.
I think that conservatives took the made up numbers and ran with them as fact because they fit the conservative narrative. Checking to see if the $20k figure was made up or real could only lead to a bad outcome (the number is made up, thus can't be used against Obama), so they didn't check.

so tha irs is lying when they say "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000."? thats knda hard ta believe so a credible cite would be helpful.

Let's use a little common sense. Is the IRS lying when it says "In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10?" Or is it making up a hypothetical example? Obviously it's making up a hypothetical, unless you want to sit here and tell me that in 2016, there will literally be such a family. So why, halfway through a made up, hypothetical example, are we supposed to believe that the IRS is conducting a detailed model to project an actual estimated cost of a specific type of health insurance plan 4 years in the future?
If this is an actual government study, which carefully projects future costs, and seriously finds that the cheapest plan available in 2016 will cost $20k, don't you think a single reputable news organization would run with the story? Why is the reporting of this number as fact found only on rightwing propaganda sites?

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Example 3. Family without minimum essential coverage. (i) In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10. No member of the family has minimum essential coverage for any month in 2016. H and J’s household income is $120,000. H and J’s applicable filing threshold is $24,000. The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000.

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The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 4 (1 adult, 3 children) is $18,000.