Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/1/2013 6:16:53 PM)

http://frederickleatherman.com/2013/02/01/lawyer-games-and-trayvon-martins-missing-gps-data-for-february-26-2012/

Hmmm... If there's a 3d accelerometer in someone's phone, that's going to be a pretty accurate representation of who was where and when, won't it?




Nosathro -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/1/2013 6:30:21 PM)

I do have to agree with Leatherman, I think the only reason O'Mara wants a delay to raise money. The GPS thing will really prove or more than likely disprove what the client has been saying about what happen. Another thing, if have not seen any recent pictures the client has gained some 100 plus pounds, the reason is they want people to see an overweight out of shape person who had no choice but to shoot, he could not defend himself any other way. One last thing is O'Mara got a hold of the victim school records, all he has shown is a photograph, a head shot, of the victim, he claims this picture put a more accurate portraot of the victim, the picture been circulation on the internat for months.



farglebargle -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/2/2013 1:04:32 AM)

I'm not thinking GPS as much as 3d accellerometer which would definitively show WHO WAS ON TOP and exactly when during the altercation... ( Phone == 3 inches from ground vs Phone == 2 feet off ground... )



DesideriScuri -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/2/2013 5:54:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I'm not thinking GPS as much as 3d accellerometer which would definitively show WHO WAS ON TOP and exactly when during the altercation... ( Phone == 3 inches from ground vs Phone == 2 feet off ground... )


Accelerometers measure/register acceleration, not position.



Raiikun -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/2/2013 8:15:57 AM)

I thought these threads were a no-no until the trial?



Raiikun -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/2/2013 8:21:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I'm not thinking GPS as much as 3d accellerometer which would definitively show WHO WAS ON TOP and exactly when during the altercation... ( Phone == 3 inches from ground vs Phone == 2 feet off ground... )


Accelerometers measure/register acceleration, not position.


This. (Though I'm expecting the thread closed soon for the reason just said.)

And that said, we probably don't need anything more to tell us who was on top - Michael Knox (a forensics expert in Florida who often testifies for the proseccution) has already chimed in to say the forensics of the gunshot is consistent with Trayvon being on top of George at the moment the gun was fired.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/2/2013 8:23:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

I thought these threads were a no-no until the trial?

I know they're a pain in the ass and a serious case of deceased equine flogging but do they violate TOS in any way, shape, form or fashion?



DarkSteven -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/2/2013 8:47:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I'm not thinking GPS as much as 3d accellerometer which would definitively show WHO WAS ON TOP and exactly when during the altercation... ( Phone == 3 inches from ground vs Phone == 2 feet off ground... )


Accelerometers measure/register acceleration, not position.


Thanks, DS. I was confused about the essential point. Also, the GPS in my phone is accurate to maybe ten feet. Also, note this bullshit from the blog:

"that would be a rather brilliant strategic move by BDLR to put MOM in a position where he publicly demands to know something that BDLR will now reveal in open court on Tuesday, thoroughly demolishing the defense."

No. The idea of Perry Mason surprising the court with unexpected evidence is bull. All evidence must be disclosed to both the court and the opposing counsel ahead of time. Anyone who doesn't know that should not be blogging about the law.



Raiikun -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/2/2013 8:47:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

I thought these threads were a no-no until the trial?

I know they're a pain in the ass and a serious case of deceased equine flogging but do they violate TOS in any way, shape, form or fashion?


Not sure, does disobeying the mod that said "No more starting Zimmerman threads until the trial" count as a TOS violation?



Hillwilliam -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/2/2013 9:07:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

I thought these threads were a no-no until the trial?

I know they're a pain in the ass and a serious case of deceased equine flogging but do they violate TOS in any way, shape, form or fashion?


Not sure, does disobeying the mod that said "No more starting Zimmerman threads until the trial" count as a TOS violation?

If you read TOS, there is nothing that says "Mods can play Calvinball any time they feel like it"
We have a thread on page 2 that had 2 posts. It has been "Locked for Mod review" for 3 days now.
How long does it take to review 2 fucking posts?



farglebargle -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/3/2013 5:20:36 AM)

This isn't really about Zimmerman per, se, but really the broader issues. Accellerometers measure accelleration, sure, but you know, you integrate that, and what do you get? Velocity. And when you plot velocity? Yup. You get position.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/3/2013 5:40:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
This isn't really about Zimmerman per, se, but really the broader issues. Accellerometers measure accelleration, sure, but you know, you integrate that, and what do you get? Velocity. And when you plot velocity? Yup. You get position.


Your math-fu is strong. Kudos for that.

The only issue I have, though, is that constant velocity has no acceleration, so when you are integrating, there has to be some initial knowledge of velocity. Differentiating a constant leaves you with zero.

DarkSteven pointed out that his phone's GPS is only accurate to within 10 feet. I don't know if that's a particularly poor accuracy rate or not, but it's enough to give questionable position measurements. If the two are wrestling with each other, Trayvon could have been on the top, or the bottom, and the GPS may not be sensitive enough to determine which. There may not be enough accuracy to tell anything other than he was in that area at that time.



Raiikun -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/3/2013 7:56:35 PM)

The fact that his phone was on the ground away from the body when the shot was fired makes it moot anyways.

What's more interesting though, is that an unknown person from the State Attorney's office takes the phone out of evidence, sends it to an unknown location to have unknown procedures done on it, then has Cellebrite pull the info from it, and upon furnishing the results to the Defense, the information from 2/26 (ie, the info that could blow the State's case out of the water) is missing. The State better have a really good explanation because this looks an awful lot like evidence tampering.



Powergamz1 -> RE: Cellphones, GPS, Accelerometers and The Law... (2/3/2013 8:00:38 PM)

Not in a 3 dimensional world.


Sounds like a great theory for a comic book though.



quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

This isn't really about Zimmerman per, se, but really the broader issues. Accellerometers measure accelleration, sure, but you know, you integrate that, and what do you get? Velocity. And when you plot velocity? Yup. You get position.




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