RE: Submissive in sexless marriage

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Reflectivesoul -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 4:34:53 PM)
quote: You got to be kidding... It's my fault that I don't want to have more of a relationship with some one! Even if they want to have more of a relationship with me! Your right... you statement is very different. You look to Blame on the other why the relationship is not working or going to be more, while the other seeks to accept ones responsibility to be in a relatioship as it exists! I will take personal responsibility to be in a relationship as it exist and the responsibility to make choices that will either improve or doom the relationship. Over laying blame on another because they are not involved in a relationship that they very might not want to change in the first place. There is nothing says that we HAVE to change for our relationships. It's choice, often people make the choice to change, accomodate, compromise, improve or whatever word you want to use. However, it's also a choice not to change or accomodate, compromise or improve on the issues that one doesn't wish to. We either accept this or we don't. Accept and be in the relationship and all the consequences... scarfices and pleasures enjoyed ... OR " we get out " Some wish to Blame... Others Take Personal Responsibility. KoM, You took the words right out of my mouth, THANK YOU.... Why it is so hard for someone to differentiate between blame and responsibility I'll never know...

Level -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 5:24:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: Level A guy backed into my car this morning (really lol). I got pissed off. He didn't make me angry, I did. This doesn't mean he isn't responsible for his actions, it just means he isn't responsible for mine. I am. PS - Headlight assembly, driver's side, 1990 Olds Regency. [&:] I doubt you made yourself angry. I mean, did you take a second and think "Gee how should I react." No, you just reacted. The person who backed into your contributed to the conditions that fed that reaction. If your car had not been hit, would you have gotten angry? What you did after experiencing that emotion (getting pissed) is in your control. Who else could have made me angry? Whether the anger came from a slow, deliberate concious decision or not, it came from me. No one else. That makes me responsible.

kyraofMists -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 5:39:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo kyra: I understand. And I didn't even think it through to try to imagine the highly personal feelings that all of you experience. I think it was a bad decision to even use it as an example, as I just explained to KoM, in my last post. I appreciate your sharing something so personal with me. And I do understand your point. I hope no offense was taken. marie. marie, I didn't not find it offensive at all; I just saw an opportunity try and dispel a misconception that I sometimes see about poly. kyra

thetammyjo -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 6:04:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo I think my statement is quite different. One says it all lays on the shoulders of the one person who is unhappy. My statement lays on the person who refuses to be involved in the relationship. The sad fact is that that person probably won't do anything or may even fight anything changing -- they aren't the one with the problem because they don't think they are in the relationship. You got to be kidding... It's my fault that I don't want to have more of a relationship with some one! Even if they want to have more of a relationship with me! Your right... you statement is very different. You look to Blame on the other why the relationship is not working or going to be more, while the other seeks to accept ones responsibility to be in a relatioship as it exists! I will take personal responsibility to be in a relationship as it exist and the responsibility to make choices that will either improve or doom the relationship. Over laying blame on another because they are not involved in a relationship that they very might not want to change in the first place. There is nothing says that we HAVE to change for our relationships. It's choice, often people make the choice to change, accomodate, compromise, improve or whatever word you want to use. However, it's also a choice not to change or accomodate, compromise or improve on the issues that one doesn't wish to. We either accept this or we don't. Accept and be in the relationship and all the consequences... scarfices and pleasures enjoyed ... OR " we get out " Some wish to Blame... Others Take Personal Responsibility. You are right you don't have to change. Guess what? You don't have the right to expect the other person to change or to do without. That is what everything I have said is about. Did you all not read the OP? This wasn't: "I can't change so I understand you might need to move on". This was: "I can't change so you aren't allowed to either". What is wrong with all of you? Can't you all see that this pain the OP is talking about didn't develop in a vacuum? He and she caused her pain together, they feed her pain together, and they perpetuate her pain together. Perhaps I'm getting several experiences mixed up here but then my response here has been based on some general stuff about folks not taking responsibility when frankly the woman in the OP is taking it -- she's trying to get help. She says "I need to leave" and he says "I love you don't leave". She says "Let's go to therapy" and he says "Its your problem, not mine". She says "I'm unhappy" and he says "I'm happy and I don't care that you aren't". (the gender isn't really the issue here at all; the genders could and are easily reversed) He does indeed share in the blame for the current state of affairs. She is starting to realize that she can make her own choices and she reached out to her friend for help and support. But all you guys seem to do is just blame her, yell at her and say "suck it up" and "get over it" and "leave him" and ignore this very painful process she has to go through. How can you possibly think this helps her or anyone else in her position. I know, I know, who cares? Other people choose to be hurt by your words, you have no responsibility for them. They are just too sensitive and need to suck it up and get over it. You can't possibly affect anyone else in this world, nope, its all them and their inability to take responsibility.

Sumimara -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 6:23:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: incognitobynight Sumi, The way I look at it is that it is a process. I don't think anybody in this situation has a Eureka moment the first time their lover says no to sex (or affection or anything else that is important to them). It is a process. Acceptance that it is not going to change has to come before you can begin to grieve for the loss, rationalize (or whatever) weigh options, make decisions, etc. I know 10 years seems like a long time......I tried for many, many years to cope by supressing my needs and thought I had done so. I don't blame anybody for that but myself. Now that I can no longer supress that part of my personality, I am having to deal with what I have done to myself for the past 8 years, I am grieving, I am getting therapy. I worry about my husband (right or wrong, I still worry). In order to do what I need to do, he is going to have to suffer. Again, RIGHT OR WRONG, it's not a decision that will be easy for me. Even though many of the more "tough love" crowd here find this inconvenient and it seems to bother them that we discuss it here (not so much that they just ignore us, however), it doesn't make it any less relevant to US. It's a process. Telling us to piss or get off the pot, accept it or shut up...........isn't helpful. It just isn't. If it makes them feel good to say things like that, then I can't stop them. But make no mistake.........it gets them NO WHERE. Talk about doing the same ol thing and expecting different results...geeze (tic). Hello Incognito~ I would not presume to make judgements about the things that are going on in your life, after reading your posts I think that I have a better understanding of the "hows" and even the "whys" but I reached that understanding based on my own experiences, which do not include episodes like you wrote about. In addition, I am not a submissive woman, I am simply not wired that way so my understanding is further hampered in that regard. I think that you are correct, what you have gone through to get you where you are today really is a process, it does not happen overnight. I have a friend who put on a tremendous amount of weight during the course of her very unhappy marriage and I remember sitting with her at a lovely restaurant in Miami when she had the first of many "moments" that lead to her making drastic changes in her life. She too mentioned how the path to her circumstances and the resolution were all a part of a process. You are on the right path - of course you would worry about your husband, you have a history with him. You are seeking the pieces of your life that you have left behind or pushed aside for the good of another... and you are aware of where you want your life to be. More power to you and best of luck. On the subject of "shut up, get off the pot" etc., people respond with the tools and the information they have at hand. The impression I got from the first post and from some of the others is that the things you are dealing with are all about "sex" and the lack thereof. A topic that is very easy to draw in terms of black and white. From what you've written, you have devoted a tremendous amount of time, energy and emotion into a situation where there was no reciprocity. Perhaps Relationship Inertia would be a better title for the thread? I wish you the very best in your journey and hope that it all works out for you. Sumi

Reflectivesoul -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 8:02:57 PM)
quote: You don't have the right to expect the other person to change or to do without. and imagine that, you dont have the right ti expect the other person to take responsibility for them feeling bad. But oh wait that would require a change.... since you cant expect either people to change then that was a useless argument huh? quote: Did you all not read the OP? This wasn't: "I can't change so I understand you might need to move on". This was: "I can't change so you aren't allowed to either". Funny, I dont see this man here in this post saying that he told his wife she can not change or grow.... if he posted somewhere and I missed it then do point it out. quote: He and she caused her pain together, they feed her pain together, and they perpetuate her pain together. No, he stopped the perpetuating when he said NO I dont want this, if she continues to push and ask for it then she is responsible for feeling hurt and let down when she does not succeed in getting what she wants. He said NO he means NO, period. quote: She says "I need to leave" and he says "I love you don't leave". She says "Let's go to therapy" and he says "Its your problem, not mine". She says "I'm unhappy" and he says "I'm happy and I don't care that you aren't". No, He goes to therapy, seeks medical advise, tried meds still does not share her desires and says enough is enough I no longer care to participate in something that forces me to do something I dont wish to do. [quote]He does indeed share in the blame for the current state of affairs. She is starting to realize that she can make her own choices and she reached out to her friend for help and support. But all you guys seem to do is just blame her, yell at her and say "suck it up" and "get over it" and "leave him" and ignore this very painful process she has to go through. How can you possibly think this helps her or anyone else in her position. He no longer has sexual desires, he has stated and shown that several times, if it is continually pushed that is not his doing. She starts taking responsibility for herself and goes to seek some emotional support through this period. Said friend posts about it on an OPEN chat forum and gets replies saying to take responsibility for ones own actions. No one ignored the problem they said the best advise they could give, if someone doesnt like the way it is worded, frankly, oh well. Dont put your business out there and expect everyone to sugar coat everything just to make it easier to swallow. quote: You can't possibly affect anyone else in this world, nope, its all them and their inability to take responsibility. You arent responsible for how someone else internalizes your words or actions, they are. If it hurts their pride or feelings that is their decision to make. I have yet to bash, name call, blame, be nasty too, or any of the other accusations that have been thrown around. What I did say is that after reaching a point of discovery where you come to the decision that a relationship is no monger usefull to you, and you make the conscious decision to stay, you are responsible for that, you can not call the other person in the relationship an abuser because you yourself chose and still choose to stay with that person, if anyone is abusing it is the one who stays and becomes miserable, they are SELF abusing.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 8:50:48 PM)
God, is this thread still going? It's obvious no one is getting through to the other. Gimme that shovel, it's time to bury this thing before it attracts flys.

mistoferin -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 8:54:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo This wasn't: "I can't change so I understand you might need to move on". This was: "I can't change so you aren't allowed to either". The only part of those two sentences that have any relevance to her is exactly the same...."I can't change". You could even change the "can't" to "won't" if it suits you better. But the bottom line is that can't or won't, the end result is still the same. She has a situation where her husband has said "I can't" or "I won't" have sex. Seeing as he is firm in that and the likelihood of her affecting any change in her favor is slim to none....then the decision as to whether or not she can live with it or not is now up to her. Once she makes that decision, the responsibility of living with that decision is then hers to own. Why is that so hard to comprehend????

BreakMeShakeMe -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 8:55:48 PM)
Mr D... that's my horse you're talking about...LOL.. actually I think it's owned's now... she buried it last time it came back from the dead... [:D][:D]

thetammyjo -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul quote: You can't possibly affect anyone else in this world, nope, its all them and their inability to take responsibility. You arent responsible for how someone else internalizes your words or actions, they are. If it hurts their pride or feelings that is their decision to make. And that above pretty much says it all does it? I will note that while you can say that he (the man in question in the OP) says something or states something when it suits your purposes but you ignore the other things we are told he said and did. Both of them are things we are told he said -- he hasn't posted. Your first post in this thread (page 4) was based on a mistaken assumption that folks were saying that if he didn't have sex that meant he didn't love her. That was not what anyone had said. But you (page 7) wanted to believe that was what was said so from that moment on you had to keep making claims that we were only hearing one side so we shouldn't judge. Then you had to go make some general comments about all women saying or complaining about all men -- all of which sounds pretty judgemental to me, Ms.-we-only-have-one-side-so-we-can't-judge, unless of course you've heard from all women and all men. Plus you keep ignoring the fact that the woman in the OP is taking control and starting to take responsiblity -- you apply this to everyone apparently who has even mentioned the similar problem except for yourself I guess. You expect her to just snap her fingers and she'll be fine? In some posts you don't but in others you sure seem to think it is that easy -- which is it? At every turn you can't possibly see how the other person in these RELATIONSHIPS could have any responsibility -- nope its all on the person who is hurt cause as you said above no one else is responsible at all in any way. As for this: quote: What I did say is that after reaching a point of discovery where you come to the decision that a relationship is no monger usefull to you, and you make the conscious decision to stay, you are responsible for that, you can not call the other person in the relationship an abuser because you yourself chose and still choose to stay with that person, if anyone is abusing it is the one who stays and becomes miserable, they are SELF abusing. Exactly what makes you think anyone in this thread has made this decision to stay or that they are equipt yet to make that decision? Some of these people had their partners leave them or die -- they never got to that point where they could make a decision. Some have reached compromises in their relationships because both people are taking responsibility for their relationship and its happiness. Others are in the process of reaching out and reaching in as they work toward making a decision. How dare you tell them how fast this process must go. quote: No one ignored the problem they said the best advise they could give, if someone doesnt like the way it is worded, frankly, oh well. Dont put your business out there and expect everyone to sugar coat everything just to make it easier to swallow. How dare you use one person's choice as an excuse for another person's choices, actions, and words. Take some responsibility. Isn't that what you say? Or is it really tell others to take responsiblity so you don't have to? It is a clever plan, it really is. Convince others that only they have any responsiblity and it frees you from all responsibility. Just think of it. Now you can say and do anything you want to anyone you want. Someone thinks it is wrong or something feels bad -- who cares? Not like it has anything to do with you because you aren't responsible for anything but yourself. It works great for relationships too -- things fall apart, it can't possibly have anything to do with you, you don't have responsibility to anyone other than yourself. Oh, wait there are these exceptions for "real abuse" and for children and for illegal things... WHY? By the logic that you can choose your emotions as well as your actions you don't need ethics or morals or laws any more -- that's all part of that nasty blame game stuff. Its all up to the individual how things affect them.

thetammyjo -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:18:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo This wasn't: "I can't change so I understand you might need to move on". This was: "I can't change so you aren't allowed to either". The only part of those two sentences that have any relevance to her is exactly the same...."I can't change". You could even change the "can't" to "won't" if it suits you better. But the bottom line is that can't or won't, the end result is still the same. She has a situation where her husband has said "I can't" or "I won't" have sex. Seeing as he is firm in that and the likelihood of her affecting any change in her favor is slim to none....then the decision as to whether or not she can live with it or not is now up to her. Once she makes that decision, the responsibility of living with that decision is then hers to own. Why is that so hard to comprehend???? That isn't hard to comprehend. If that decision was easy don't you think she would have left by now? What I have great difficulty understanding is that everyone wants to place it all on her and expects her to just be ok like a snap of a finger. You all want her to make that decision NOW. I also have great difficulty understanding why no one thinks the sad state of the relationship has anything to do with him. Do you all think he is imaginary? Is she having a mental breakdown where she's created this husband? You all talk about responsibility so why can't you see that both people have responsibilty for what has happened? And both people will influence the decision I hope she can learn to make and carry out.

KnightofMists -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:19:56 PM)
tammyjo you continue make less and less sense with each post. hands Discipline a shovel and grabs one for myself** Here, let me help you!

thetammyjo -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:25:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists tammyjo you continue make less and less sense with each post. hands Discipline a shovel and grabs one for myself** Here, let me help you! Really? You all make no sense to me at all on this topic. All this talk about taking responsibility seems to be a nice cover for not having any at all.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:29:09 PM)
Actually, no one is saying that he should not be taking responsibility for his part in the relationship, tammyjo. They're just saying don't lay it all at his feet. Some of the burden of guilt also lay with the women in the relationship. This is where the problem has been with some of the women (really only one that I've seen). They think it was ALL the blame of their partner and nothing to do with them. Both of these facts have been stated and argued over. You're disreguarding these facts for the sake of arguement. Maybe you just need to see that your way, isn't the only way of looking at things. If you don't want to agree that there is more then one way of looking at something, you're just baiting others for a petty arguement.

mistoferin -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:29:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo This wasn't: "I can't change so I understand you might need to move on". This was: "I can't change so you aren't allowed to either". The only part of those two sentences that have any relevance to her is exactly the same...."I can't change". You could even change the "can't" to "won't" if it suits you better. But the bottom line is that can't or won't, the end result is still the same. She has a situation where her husband has said "I can't" or "I won't" have sex. Seeing as he is firm in that and the likelihood of her affecting any change in her favor is slim to none....then the decision as to whether or not she can live with it or not is now up to her. Once she makes that decision, the responsibility of living with that decision is then hers to own. Why is that so hard to comprehend???? That isn't hard to comprehend. If that decision was easy don't you think she would have left by now? What I have great difficulty understanding is that everyone wants to place it all on her and expects her to just be ok like a snap of a finger. You all want her to make that decision NOW. I also have great difficulty understanding why no one thinks the sad state of the relationship has anything to do with him. Do you all think he is imaginary? Is she having a mental breakdown where she's created this husband? You all talk about responsibility so why can't you see that both people have responsibilty for what has happened? And both people will influence the decision I hope she can learn to make and carry out. Holy shit!!!! [sm=banghead.gif] Where did I say the decision would be easy??? When in life were we ever guaranteed things would be easy??? Where did I say she had to make a decision right this moment??? Where did I say that the whole thing is her fault??? Where did I say that he bears no responsibility??? The situation IS WHAT IT IS and the parties involved can go back in time and point fingers and what if themselves to death but that isn't going to change WHAT IT IS in the here and now. They both have to work with what they have at hand and do whatever is going to ultimately be best for themselves as individuals. It seems pretty clear that he has made his decisions....the ball is in her court.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:31:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists tammyjo you continue make less and less sense with each post. hands Discipline a shovel and grabs one for myself** Here, let me help you! Oh, thank ya, sir. You start at that end, I'll start at this one.

Reflectivesoul -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:42:25 PM)
quote: I will note that while you can say that he (the man in question in the OP) says something or states something when it suits your purposes but you ignore the other things we are told he said and did. Both of them are things we are told he said -- he hasn't posted. You're exactly right, he has NOT posted. I did not say he said anything, I reinforced the fact that the women said the husband had tried counceling, medications, therapy all of the above. How is it that I ignored something? Seems to me that you are making the choice to ignore that he does NOT have to put out in order to make someone else happy. You keep saying how he should be responsible for her feeling bad, that he should leave a relationship that he feels happy in, that he should feel bad for making a decision based on his wants and desires, and at the same time talking out the other side of your mouth about how the hurt partner has the right to expect him to to either put out or leave her. That makes complete sense, sure. quote: Your first post in this thread (page 4) was based on a mistaken assumption that folks were saying that if he didn't have sex that meant he didn't love her. That was not what anyone had said. It was not a mistake assumption and you keep reiterating that fact over and over again because the men that love the women will provide for her sexual desires... WRONG... love does NOT have to do with sex and I will stand by that as long as I live because as I have said sex does not and can not make or break the relationship. You can not base a relationship on sex period, no matter what side of the fence in which it falls. quote: But you (page 7) wanted to believe that was what was said so from that moment on you had to keep making claims that we were only hearing one side so we shouldn't judge. Then you had to go make some general comments about all women saying or complaining about all men -- all of which sounds pretty judgemental to me, Ms.-we-only-have-one-side-so-we-can't-judge, unless of course you've heard from all women and all men. I did not say ALL women... please reread that, and I also said that it was a generalization. Period. I am also not the only person that has stated the same thing, so why do you choose to take it personally when I say something but not when someone else has said the exact same thing? It also wasnt based to just this thread either, Go ahead spew how wrong I am but you cant denounce the fact that A.) Women bitch about men who profess strong sexual urges, these men get called pigs, and are accused of only wanting one thing. B.) Women bitch that men wont have sex and therefor label him as an abuser. You yourself labeled the men in the second catagory as abusers, so please do tell me I am wrong in stating it again, because then you have to admit you are wrong in calling them abusers. quote: Plus you keep ignoring the fact that the woman in the OP is taking control and starting to take responsiblity -- you apply this to everyone apparently who has even mentioned the similar problem except for yourself I guess. You expect her to just snap her fingers and she'll be fine? In some posts you don't but in others you sure seem to think it is that easy -- which is it? Again thats not true at all, I have gone out of my way to address other women on this board in other fashions and to offer up support to them in their situations because they DID stand up and say I know I am responsible for myself. You are having a problem with the way I handled one poster here so dont try and say I handeled them all the same, oh wait who was it that was making gross misgeneralizations again? Please do show me exactly where in my posts I have said that if someone snaps their fingers they are magically all better. ..... oh you cant find one? Gee I wonder how come? Could it be because I never said that and yet you choose to make my words out to be something they are not? Oh but god forbid that would happen because I am the judgemental one right? quote: At every turn you can't possibly see how the other person in these RELATIONSHIPS could have any responsibility -- nope its all on the person who is hurt cause as you said above no one else is responsible at all in any way. I have never said that the other person is not or should not be responsible for themselves, however I did point out how the other person was responsible for taking himself to the doctors, trying to seek help and failing, again thats the point you keep choosing to ignore. quote: Exactly what makes you think anyone in this thread has made this decision to stay or that they are equipt yet to make that decision? Well lets see, ALL of them have said that they realized the situation was bad but they were still in that situation so uhmm you are arguing with that why? Or was that another thing you chose to ignore? quote: Some of these people had their partners leave them or die -- they never got to that point where they could make a decision. Susan herself said she was going to leave and wanted to leave then her husband got sick and she chose not to leave. So how is that her not making her own decision? I am the one who had the partner leave, but I had already made my decision to stay.... so pelase tell me where I did not willfully make my own decision. quote: Others are in the process of reaching out and reaching in as they work toward making a decision. Incognito has made her decision, she is just trying to make it ok with herself so that when she does leave she doesnt feel so much hurt and guilt for herself and twords her partner, so again how does that say she hasnt made that decision? quote: How dare you tell them how fast this process must go. Please show me where I specified a time line saying that they had X amount of time to leave.... quote: No one ignored the problem they said the best advise they could give, if someone doesnt like the way it is worded, frankly, oh well. Dont put your business out there and expect everyone to sugar coat everything just to make it easier to swallow. < this was mine all the way> quote: How dare you use one person's choice as an excuse for another person's choices, actions, and words. Read a little much into that one didnt you? I never said that it was an excuse to act or say anything, what I did however say was dont put your shit out there and expect someone else to sugar coat anything to make you swallow it any better. quote: Take some responsibility. Isn't that what you say? Or is it really tell others to take responsiblity so you don't have to? Please do show me where I have not stood my ground to the EXACT thing that I have said time and time again, so please do show me where I have not taken responsibility for my own actions. quote: It is a clever plan, it really is. Convince others that only they have any responsiblity and it frees you from all responsibility. Again please show me where I have NOT been responsible for anything that I have said. quote: Just think of it. Now you can say and do anything you want to anyone you want. You can, its called freedom of speech. But atleast I choose to express mine without insulting, name calling, and being nasty about it.... can you say the same? Nope, didnt think so... quote: Someone thinks it is wrong or something feels bad -- who cares? Not like it has anything to do with you because you aren't responsible for anything but yourself. No, read some more into stuff didnt you? What I have said though is that if someone feels bad for something I have said it is not my responsibility to go fix them because they took it how they wanted too.... quote: It works great for relationships too -- things fall apart, it can't possibly have anything to do with you, you don't have responsibility to anyone other than yourself Funny, I did post about my responsibilities inside my own relationships, and have several times across this forum, so uhmm how was I neglecting responsibility in my own situations? quote: Oh, wait there are these exceptions for "real abuse" and for children and for illegal things... Yes, because real abuse is different from give me sympathy because I cry victim to a situation because I made the choice to stay and now I am unhappy. There is real abuse and there is percieved abuse and abuse labeling when it fits ones own needs to gain justification for their own behaviour. ( which is also called manipulation...) quote: WHY? By the logic that you can choose your emotions as well as your actions you don't need ethics or morals or laws any more -- that's all part of that nasty blame game stuff. Its all up to the individual how things affect them. You do choose your own actions, and in turn you should be RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE for those actions. Just because you chose them doesnt make them right.

mistoferin -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:46:56 PM)
What I don't get is why does this have to be reduced to finding fault and laying blame? Relationships change, needs, wants and desires change, people change. Sometimes they grow together and want the same things. Sometimes they grow apart and want different things. Whichever way those changes occur we still have to deal with the situation we find ourselves in as a result of those changes. And yes it really is that simple.

BreakMeShakeMe -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:50:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin What I don't get is why does this have to be reduced to finding fault and laying blame? Relationships change, needs, wants and desires change, people change. Sometimes they grow together and want the same things. Sometimes they grow apart and want different things. Whichever way those changes occur we still have to deal with the situation we find ourselves in as a result of those changes. And yes it really is that simple. [sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif] So true... so true.. and about time it's said!!!!!!

Reflectivesoul -> RE: Submissive in sexless marriage (6/22/2006 9:55:32 PM)
erin, You're exactly right. It is that simple. I have said in previous posts that it should not be about the blame and shame game, but I guess its easier for someone to blame everyone else instead of accepting the situation and dealing with it.

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