Issues with Racism (Full Version)

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NamesDivine -> Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 9:58:40 AM)

Hi Mistresses,

I have been doing fetish and domme work for about 4 years and now that I'm on CM meeting a lot of new people, I realize I am encountering a problem within myself! I am having trouble domming African American and Native American people.

Whether it is racial domination request or some other kind of humiliation, I find myself needing to reject the opportunity because I have such a desire to give hugs and love and help and presents! Perhaps I am just a switch.

I have discussed this with my boyfriend and we have decided I am experiencing racist feelings.

I have responded to requests for racial domination with an ABSOLUTELY NOT, but I have recently been approached by an African American man that just wants me to take a dump on him. I'd do it for anyone else without any reluctance but am having a problem agreeing to this.

My boyfriend thinks I should provide equal opportunity dumping services, which to me seems like the "right" thing to do, but I am still feeling conflicted.

Has anyone else ever had similar feelings and chosen to work through them in a particular way for a particular reason?




theRose4U -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 10:06:54 AM)

I would tell the "boy" to butt out. Dommes actually are allowed to have limits!!! What is the point of being in charge if we can't pick & choose what WE WANT. Not wanting to poop on x race when you will y doesn't make you any more racist than I am for having narrow minded, bed sheet wearing family members.
Practice "because I said so bitch!!!" Presumably a sub "guilting you" for having personal preferences is a far bigger issue.



TheLilSquaw -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 10:10:03 AM)

As a professional switch, there are MANY scenes I simply will NOT do.
Those things are non-negotiable.
They don't make any less of a switch.
They show that MY personal believes can't be bought or sold.


To ME your reaction is one of "that doesn't sound appealing" to me.
Which is your right.

Saying no, may have consequences.
So can saying yes.
The biggest in my eyes is not feeling comfortable with yourself after doing it.

ETA: Putting your personal contact information on your profile is a violation of the TOS. Your profile might simply go POOF.







MissKittyDeVine -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 10:20:00 AM)

I refuse to do racial humiliation because I have been opposed to racism for as long as I've been able to form my own opinions. It just goes so much against my core beliefs that I cannot engage in it, even in a fantasy situation. So if something doesn't sit right with you, you're entitled to decline. While it's good to question yourself, if your gut feeling is no, then don't do it. It may seem odd, or illogical for one thing to be ok with you while another isn't. But if you don't enjoy it, there is no point.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 10:36:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NamesDivine
I am encountering a problem within myself! I am having trouble domming African American and Native American people.


You specifically asked Dommes for their opinion, but I hope you won't mind the input of an African-American male sub.

I have encountered Dommes exactly like you. I remember one who found it impossible to refer to me as her "slave". She said that she just felt too guilty using that word to describe a Black person. I told her that it didn't bother me, but she never got over that feeling of guilt, and never used the term around me.

The bottom line is that YOU have to feel good about what you're doing. It doesn't matter if a sub/slave requests that you do a certain thing to them. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't.

Personally, I don't engage in race play. But many people enjoy it. I don't think that participating in, or enjoying, race play necessarily makes you a racist. In fact, based on the internal angst that you're going through, I think it's pretty safe to say that you're NOT a racist. So just be true to yourself. If it feels uncomfortable to you, then don't do it.

Good luck.
-Roch



NamesDivine -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 10:53:05 AM)

I appreciate everyone's input.

I believe the problem I am trying to resolve is recognizing race, color, or ethnicity in a person and making a decision based on that. I truly believe in female supremacy and equality for all men under that and desire to make a decision that is the most responsible for the healing and evolution of all-kind. I believe BDSM is (or should be or thought it was or imagined it to be) a therapeutic outlet so I guess I am wondering how it could be therapeutic for people who still are still healing from only a recently passed (and even still present) white European enforced cultural genocide!!!!!



Hillwilliam -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 10:59:46 AM)

I'm going to pop this question at both the OP and roch.

Could it be possible that you are not racist per se but Overly Sensitive to perceived racism?



TheLilSquaw -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 11:29:49 AM)


quote:

NamesDivine
I believe the problem I am trying to resolve is recognizing race, color, or ethnicity in a person and making a decision based on that.


Before I went on my break from CollarMe.
There was this discussion (rather heated one) about if someone has a preference of ethnicity (race) for their partner that they are racist.
This seems to be part of the debate that you are having within yourself (if I understood your post correctly).




quote:

ORIGINAL: NamesDivine

I believe BDSM is (or should be or thought it was or imagined it to be) a therapeutic outlet


Perhaps this is what BDSM is to YOU.
However, that doesn't mean that is what BDSM is to me or anyone else.

That doesn't make it right or wrong.
It simply means that that definition is right for you and wrong for me.





JeffBC -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 2:03:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NamesDivine
I believe the problem I am trying to resolve is recognizing race, color, or ethnicity in a person and making a decision based on that.

You have an issue with racism within yourself and you have the self-awareness to go digging in the dirt. Good for you. I understand both sides of your conundrum.

quote:

I truly believe in female supremacy

But you have no issues with sexism... I had a longer and more elaborate comment on that but honestly it speaks for itself.



Baroana -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 3:44:32 PM)

Don't feel like you're alone. This is very common. I feel sorry for African Americans that are also subs, because people often don't want to dom them. It can feel so wrong!

Some people who are Black and sub do have a specific thing for race-oriented play, but many don't. I don't think I could ever do racist stuff, even though it's just pretend.

I have personally played with one Black sub male. It certainly was out of my comfort zone, but I did not find the color factor to be an insurmountable issue.



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 6:50:03 PM)

I'm thinking that it's not so much that the OP is racist. For some reason, I don't think she is. I think it's more that she's sensitive to perceived racism and that she wouldn't want to do anything that might be perceived as such, even if that's not her reason for doing something.

Myself, I don't think I'd have any more, or less, problem doing any certain thing to a person of a different ethnicity than I would have doing the same thing to a caucasian person. That is, UNLESS the person wanted me to do it as race play or for humiliating him based on his race. Then I would NOT do whatever it was. As for the word "slave," I never use it because I don't have a slave, I have a submissive.

NBMG



SeekingTrinity -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 7:20:19 PM)

~FRing it~

You dont sound racist at all. I dig that you are not wanting in any way to appear racist, but Id caution that treating a black or native sub/slave differently than you would a white sub/slave because you are going out of your way to not appear racially biased is still technically unequal treatment. Black and Native history is rich with stories about the struggle to achieve equal treatment in the eyes of the world. You can still honor that AND be able to dominate a sub/slave no matter what their racial or cultural identity is.

Obviously race play is not your cup of tea. Totally understandable because its not mine either. I dont use racial slurs at all and have never compromised those principles. Ive been doing this for quite a number of years and its totally possible to dominate a sub/slave of any race or cultural identity without being racist at all. Ive always made it clear from the start that race play is a limit of mine and havent ever run into a situation where that was ever compromised. Just know your own standards and stick to your moral compass and you'll be okay.



OsideGirl -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 7:30:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
What is the point of being in charge if we can't pick & choose what WE WANT.


I'm going to go with this. If you're the one in charge, why are you doing something that makes you uncomfortable and don't believe in? You're in this to enjoy yourself. Do what makes you happy.



Nelee -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 7:59:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: NamesDivine
I truly believe in female supremacy


But you have no issues with sexism... I had a longer and more elaborate comment on that but honestly it speaks for itself.


I feel like this may be taken out of context. She finishes with, "and equality for all men under that", so I read it as she believe in female supremacy within the context of BDSM and her role as a domme. But I'll be honest, I feel a bit confused by that myself.

Of course, OP is the only one who can confirm or deny this.



Switcheroo1983 -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 8:09:43 PM)

It happens. If Dom/Domme hears/sees my surname, they ask what it is. When I tell them it is Persian (they ask what that is lol) and I tell them. You know what, 90+% of the time they back off, telling me they are afraid they might "offend me" WTF? It does not feel good. Or if we do agree to meet, by some chance, they treat me with kid gloves, as if walking on egg shells. That also does not feel good.

I am a product of a mixed marriage, both Ethnically and Religiously. Mom is White, Scotch-Irish to be exact and "Christian" (if Mama is in a church I'll have a stroke) and my father is Persian, the child of immigrants, and a Muslim.

Both sides of my family were against the marriage. Mama's side treated my father like an outsider, and Dad's family were no better to my mama. The marriage did not last long, but alas, I came along before it ended. It was a scathing scandal when I was named, but mama was insistent.

Throughout my childhood I was treated different by both sides of my family. I was treated different at school. Some children were forbidden by their parents to be friends with me. This has carried over into adulthood.

My point, OP, is do not treat a sub of a different or mixed race/Ethnic background any different. We grow up being treated "different" much of the time, people watching what they say or do. Generally they do not wish to "offend" us. All I ask is don't treat a Black, an Asian, a Native American, a Persian, an Arab, anyone "different" when domming. We are there to be dommed, not coddled. Remember that.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 9:46:30 PM)

Hi NamesDivine,
I had very similar thoughts/feelings, when I first began learning, and practicing this... I actually turned down potential black suitors, because I was uncomfortable with doing certain things to them, or speaking to them a certain way. I had to do some soul searching, and figure out why it is I want to have this type of relationship. When I could reassure myself that it comes from a place of love, and a consentual need for a symbiotic relationship, than I was able to remove the obstacles I had created in my mind, and remain emotionally open to everyone equally. M



JeffBC -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 11:19:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
What is the point of being in charge if we can't pick & choose what WE WANT?

Some see authority as prerogative. Others see it as responsibility. The point for me is not "what I want" it's in the honorable exercise of substantial responsibility. It's the way I measure myself. "Getting my way" is not the point of any leadership situation I find myself in... business or personal.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/5/2013 11:37:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Some see authority as prerogative. Others see it as responsibility. The point for me is not "what I want" it's in the honorable exercise of substantial responsibility. It's the way I measure myself. "Getting my way" is not the point of any leadership situation I find myself in... business or personal.
Very nicely said Jeff. Its a distinction worth keeping in mind, when weighing/deciding our willingness, to play with others.



JeffBC -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/6/2013 2:58:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
Its a distinction worth keeping in mind, when weighing/deciding our willingness, to play with others.

... and even more worth keeping in mind when it is not "play". :)

As is always true, when I speak of D/s I'm talking about "society at large" not simply what happens in our interpersonal relationships. One might wish that more than two or three people DC agreed with my thoughts.



wannapleez -> RE: Issues with Racism (2/6/2013 12:12:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NamesDivine
I believe the problem I am trying to resolve is recognizing race, color, or ethnicity in a person and making a decision based on that.


Before Alanis Morisette came along and gave us 8,000,000 examples of things that aren't actually "ironic", the most misused word in the English language was "racism" (and its derivatives).

If the above quote is what you are dealing with, in and of itself, you are so incredibly not racist. Racism carries with it the belief that one race is inherently superior to another. Even believing (whether true or not) that there are differences between races is not racism. It may be prejudice or bigotry, but it's not racism. But judging from your comments, you don't even have problems with prejudice or bigotry either.

Now your thoughts/feelings may be driven by the improper thoughts/feelings/actions of true racists. But that in no way makes you racist. In fact, seeing as how your thoughts/feelings are a reaction against those of racists, this is even further argument that you aren't one.

"Equal opportunity" is irrelevant in this scenario -- it is only applicable to impersonal activities (work, housing, the general service industry, etc). Whereas there is a personal component to any "adult" activity, even if you are solely doing it for financial reasons. If one was required to align all of one's personal preferences with any given standard (e.g. equal opportunity), then (by sheer definition) no one would have personal preferences.

Or what about this: Is every straight person on the planet a homophobe? Only if you can answer "yes" to that, can you accuse yourself of being a racist.



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