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Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 8:37:24 AM

pahunkboy

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http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/06/061906afa.htm <--

Ok- my point on posting this- is that- whatever the result- scientific research should not be faked.

No one wins when it is. Years ago, my perception was that if it is scientific, it is fact. But now in recent years I wonder.

Science is the one thing that could save us. Muddying it up with fake results via the right or the left serves no one.

Anti-Gay Group Accused Of Distorting Teen Suicide Study
is the article per the link. I am sorry for any miscommunication.

< Message edited by pahunkboy -- 6/20/2006 9:19:01 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 9:06:17 AM

lisa1978

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Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Kansas City
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Certainly noble and correct, but unfortunately immpossible to actually do.

When money is involved, facts can become things that can just get in the way from people on both sides of any argument when personal gain is involved. Whether it be money or fame.

_____________________________

It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank. Without passion, we'd be truly dead.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 2

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 9:14:33 AM

NakedOnMyChain

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From: Indiana
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That wasn't what I thought I was going to open when I clicked on the link. I'm glad it's not another stem cell research article, though.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 3

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 9:17:36 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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I am sorry. Maybe I should edit that. I tend to be impulsive. I will fix this.

My apoligies.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)

Post #: 4

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 9:32:38 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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Pa Hunk, I agree.
Look at the issue of "Global Warming."
Somehow the "U.N." thinks that if Western Countries give it "more money" that it can stop "Global Warming!"
I'm not so sure that something like that is even in their charter!
And how is a bunch of global socialist beaurocrats going to get involved with science?
What if, as many scientists think, that "Global Warming" is due to increased solar activity?
How is giving more money to the "UN" going to solve anything?
That'd be like giving me (A Retired Military Man) $10,000 and asking me to do brain surgury on someone!
Besides the fact that the "UN" STILL can't find that $22-$24 BILLION that is "missing" in the Oil for Food program!

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 5

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 9:45:59 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
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quote:

....Years ago, my perception was that if it is scientific, it is fact. But now in recent years I wonder.

Science is the one thing that could save us. Muddying it up with fake results via the right or the left serves no one.

Besides the fact that politicians will spin the results of science and pseudo science as they see fit, there is no magic guarantee that those engaged in scientific research are immune to the factors that cause dishonesty in other professions.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/20/2006 9:48:23 AM >

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 6

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 9:53:38 AM

FangsNfeet

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Joined: 12/3/2004
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Keeping politics and science seperate would be harder than truely seperating Church and State. If and when scientist study and notice something, they go to politicians to make change or offer solutions. Most scientist go to politicians for financial funds. The government also hires scientist to to conduct test and studies as well as enginering equipment.

Science and studies are a big part in todays laws and policies. Polticians need scientist to present there case and scientist need politicains for funding and making the change.

I'm not a believer in global warming, but I do want cleaner air and energy sources. I would also like to see more preservation of our jungles and forest. Science and knowledge is what we need to always better protect ourselves and our environment.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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Post #: 7

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 11:05:46 AM

pahunkboy

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Hi popeye,

Yes, it does make one wonder where the money went. A lot of it.

We are very busy rolling back environemental laws. Gutting them. It took Lake Erie catching fire years ago b4 the powers that be got serious.

They changed one chemical in freon....and the mafia was traficcing the stuff! ppl want AC in their cars. period.

I dont think the UN is anything that I fear. We are doing an intense job ruining our own country. yikes.

One year 63 of PAs 67 air quality monitored failed clean air standards.

ouch.

-regards

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 8

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 11:07:40 AM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Interesting point Feng,

we [the US] thump our chest over ethics in research. I can only guess the secret experimental research we have going on. Guilty.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 9

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 11:10:08 AM

SirKenin

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Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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Well, the long and the short of it is that it has been proven a long time ago that 365Gay.com is not a credible news source. In fact, certain boards that I have been on have banned the posting of their articles.

So, unless you have a credible link I would take it with a HUGE grain of salt, especially when they are politically motivated, in this case against an anti-gay group.

As far as keeping politics out of science, absolutely, but I challenge you to point to ANY study, even by homosexual activists, that are not tarnished by politics. The truth is that there are none...

And while we are at it... Let us keep politics out of the news too.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 10

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 11:37:50 AM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Ild be interested in anything you have that proves gay365.com isnt credible.

I dont know...so thats why I am asking you.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 11

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 9:18:35 PM

FangsNfeet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Ild be interested in anything you have that proves gay365.com isnt credible.

I dont know...so thats why I am asking you.

It's just so GAY! Is that enough proof for you?

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 12

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/20/2006 9:29:20 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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"It's just so GAY! Is that enough proof for you?"

LOLOL-

looking back at that site- most site list a source. They havent. It would carry more weight if a source was cited.

insomnia me. yikes.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 13

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/21/2006 10:23:52 AM

NakedOnMyChain

Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I am sorry. Maybe I should edit that. I tend to be impulsive. I will fix this.

My apoligies.

Oh, hey, no big deal. I was actually relieved that it wasn't what I thought it was.

As for keeping the truth in science and the politics off of it, it's a nice dream that I wish I could see come to fruition. It would be so nice to see an unadulterated and unblemished survey on anything. It seems that no matter where you turn the scientific proof of anything is tainted in one way or another. I'd like to see it happen. I really would. I'd like to see us grow up enough to be able to put aside our prejudices and our views and consider the greater good. I'd like to see "Just the facts, ma'am." Until then, I'll keep dreaming.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 14

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/21/2006 11:40:45 AM

Termyn8or

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Joined: 11/12/2005
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It is waaay worse than you think. Especially in medical "science". It is not the individual doctors in most cases, but the textbooks they read. When drug companies subsidise medical education it is bad. They perpetuate a series of lies that are handed down from one BMW driver to the next.

To illustrate, I will take one point, one that affects millions and makes billions for the drug companies. Diabetes. Uncurable diabetes, unpreventable diabetes, right ? Hereditary right ? WRONG.

They know for a FACT that if you don't get enough of two specific nutrients you WILL become diabetic. It's not the excess sugar to blame 100%, it is the lack of these two nutrients. They know for a FACT that if you are borderline, dietary options can stop it, but it is not just a matter of avoiding sugar and carbs, without these two nutrients you will still succumb to the condition. This is FACT my friends, and I can prove it. Not all doctors know it, but vetrinarians do. It is part of their education. Why ?

Well, it has been said before, follow the money. If you become diabetic, your doctor can look forward to all kind of surgeries, continual visits and presciptions for the rest of your life, and later on, amputations. I find it hard to believe that they are all so ruthless that they do this knowingly, so one needs to look at their education.
Now if you're a vet, you don't want diabetic pigs, why ? they use pig's pancreas' to make insulin, which they sell at a high profit. Therefore those two essential nutrients are given to pigs all the time, in their feed. If an animal gets sick, they shoot it, no more money for you. When people get sick it is a whole different story.
People who distort science for their own goals should be crucified. I just can't believe it's the doctors, not all of them. It is the people influencing the medical schools, and those who write the offerings for research grants. That is the root of the problem.
I have no doubt that an anti-gay group might distort the facts. Normally the religious type, they are used to reinterpreting facts to suit their beleifs. That is what they do.

I have no doubt that politicians might distort facts to start a war, get that pipeline project going again and prevent Iraq from switching to Euros, they have to protect the American economy after all, so it was for the greater good. Yeah right.

There is another real and present problem, the people. Alot of people do not want to know.

So in that light, I ask this question.

Is anyone interested in what exactly those two essential nutrients are ? Your doctor has letters after his name, ask him, then ask me. I've got supportive evidence with cites and everything. After all, I didn't just swallow it whole, I don't do that. Tell ya what, ask a vet ! Actually an animal husbandry professional, one who works in the industry, not the guy you take your dog to to get him wormed. You might be surprised at the answers you get.

Yes, while the doctors prattle about cholesterol, they won't tell you the truth, they do not know it. Are you an ex-diesel mechanic who blames his lung problems on second hand smoke, ONE TIME at a Christmans party last year ? Do they tell you that olestra and hydrogenated oils, and refined sugar and table salt are all poison to the body, and what each does ? I know. If I layed it all on the table right now it would look like a huge conspiracy, but in fact it is a very small one.

They don't even let the doctors (their operatives) know what is going on. Can't share too much of the wealth y'know.
I'll sum it up by saying this : Distortion of supposed real science is a crime even worse than religion.

Statistical analyses are even worse, but I don't even want to get started on that right now. Let's just say that when you form the questions you form the answers.

I just hope that those with children teach them well, because if these problems aren't solved soon, it'll be hell on Earth. Those who take will continue to take more and more until they can take no more. That will be for one of two reasons, either the People put a stop to it, or there is nothing left to take. Take your pick.

T

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)

Post #: 15

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/21/2006 2:03:30 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

It is waaay worse than you think. Especially in medical "science". It is not the individual doctors in most cases, but the textbooks they read. When drug companies subsidise medical education it is bad. They perpetuate a series of lies that are handed down from one BMW driver to the next.

To illustrate, I will take one point, one that affects millions and makes billions for the drug companies. Diabetes. Uncurable diabetes, unpreventable diabetes, right ? Hereditary right ? WRONG.

They know for a FACT that if you don't get enough of two specific nutrients you WILL become diabetic. It's not the excess sugar to blame 100%, it is the lack of these two nutrients. They know for a FACT that if you are borderline, dietary options can stop it, but it is not just a matter of avoiding sugar and carbs, without these two nutrients you will still succumb to the condition. This is FACT my friends, and I can prove it. Not all doctors know it, but vetrinarians do. It is part of their education. Why ?

Well, it has been said before, follow the money. If you become diabetic, your doctor can look forward to all kind of surgeries, continual visits and presciptions for the rest of your life, and later on, amputations. I find it hard to believe that they are all so ruthless that they do this knowingly, so one needs to look at their education.
Now if you're a vet, you don't want diabetic pigs, why ? they use pig's pancreas' to make insulin, which they sell at a high profit. Therefore those two essential nutrients are given to pigs all the time, in their feed. If an animal gets sick, they shoot it, no more money for you. When people get sick it is a whole different story.
People who distort science for their own goals should be crucified. I just can't believe it's the doctors, not all of them. It is the people influencing the medical schools, and those who write the offerings for research grants. That is the root of the problem.
I have no doubt that an anti-gay group might distort the facts. Normally the religious type, they are used to reinterpreting facts to suit their beleifs. That is what they do.

I have no doubt that politicians might distort facts to start a war, get that pipeline project going again and prevent Iraq from switching to Euros, they have to protect the American economy after all, so it was for the greater good. Yeah right.

There is another real and present problem, the people. Alot of people do not want to know.

So in that light, I ask this question.

Is anyone interested in what exactly those two essential nutrients are ? Your doctor has letters after his name, ask him, then ask me. I've got supportive evidence with cites and everything. After all, I didn't just swallow it whole, I don't do that. Tell ya what, ask a vet ! Actually an animal husbandry professional, one who works in the industry, not the guy you take your dog to to get him wormed. You might be surprised at the answers you get.

Yes, while the doctors prattle about cholesterol, they won't tell you the truth, they do not know it. Are you an ex-diesel mechanic who blames his lung problems on second hand smoke, ONE TIME at a Christmans party last year ? Do they tell you that olestra and hydrogenated oils, and refined sugar and table salt are all poison to the body, and what each does ? I know. If I layed it all on the table right now it would look like a huge conspiracy, but in fact it is a very small one.

T

Ok Spill it!

What are the 2 nutrients.

I am BIG into hydration with drinking water.

shoot.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 16

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/21/2006 2:05:29 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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Termyn8or , I have been at the DR office many times- when the pill salepeople are there to "drop in".

They are like models.

It pisses me off that- when I was ill- I have to wait for them to be seen---------------

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 17

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/21/2006 8:24:54 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

My collaborative evidence will be available by email to those who ask. If too many ask I'll put it in my FTP. I fully acknowledge that some of my statement is my own opinion, but it is an educated opinion.

Chromium and Vanadium are the two minerals your body needs to produce insulin naturally. They are both in it, and if you stay diabetic too long the pancreas sort of digests itself, making the condition permanent. Please remember that the people at the top of the medical community know this, and consciously have decided not to tell you. This does NOT mean your doctor is at fault.

These two minerals are components of insulin, the natural kind. These minerals are elements, which mean humans cannot create them. Your pancreas can no more create a mineral than it can lower the interest rate on your credit card. The plants we eat are devoid of these trace and other essential minerals because they keep growing on the same land. If the chromium and vanadium are to come from the land, and they only fertilize with nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium, the plants will grow. NPK, the world would starve without it.

There is alot more, not enough copper you become prone to a stroke, varicose viens, roids, and bruising. If you don't get enough sulfur you will have gall bladder problems, and it may be related to other problems.

When you run out of tin and zinc you will become and old looking balding person, hard of hearing and losing your sense of smell.

I don't understand how people can be stupid enough to believe that all these complex chemical processes can work when only fed with carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. (carbs)

Then you get your green leafies, even meat, and you think you ate. You did not, and that <br>
(very carefully now) ,, that is why people snack. This behavior is called cribbing in animals. I believe it is also what posseses children to eat the paint off the walls, otherwise there would be no ban on lead based paint. Funny, it wasn't a problem before, or perhaps people used to watch their kids. Doesn't matter now.

I have been researching this for years, and I discard alot of information. Some is irrelevant, some is plain wrong. Some hits the nail on the head. Some address the wrong issues.

I am adamant about health issues, and in a totally unique way. I do not wish to hijack the thread, perhaps I should just start a new one. Thusfar, yes, medical research is something we about never get a clear picture of. It is all slanted, skewed or spun by those with the pursestrings. Right or wrong that is how it is.

Now the question is, OK I am going to start a new thread, a good one with links and all that is for this subject.

Here or in "Heath and Safety" whatever it is ? Is this the proper forum, because such a discussion is not likely to be kinky. Your opinions on that ?

T

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 18

RE: Keep politics OUT of science - 6/21/2006 8:39:52 PM

LorgromAndMiskel

Posts: 46
Joined: 6/9/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Here or in "Heath and Safety" whatever it is ? Is this the proper forum, because such a discussion is not likely to be kinky. Your opinions on that ?

T

We would be very interested in such information.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 19

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