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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 12:01:29 PM

Powergamz1

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Since they already live under a benevolent dictatorship (monarchy), why 'must' they move down and democratize like Egypt?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

There may a point in the future where the Saudies realize they must democratize or face civil war............ and do the right thing(s).

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 12:05:34 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Since they already live under a benevolent dictatorship (monarchy), why 'must' they move down and democratize like Egypt?

A monarchy isn't necessarily a dictatorship, dear: google the difference between ruling and reigning.

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 1:40:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Since an attack on the Sauds is an attack on Mecca and Medina, and on their supply of oil to the outside world, 'bloody' is putting in mildly. I don't imagine that they see the need for reconciliation, as long as they hold that hand.

And they do need to intermarry for purely genetic reasons, it can't be pleasant getting those medical procedures all the time.

The House of Saud's notorious inbreeding aside (I see the Saudis are ranked as the most inbred population on the planet by medical studies on such matters) I was referring to the Jordanian rulers being Sayids (and also claimed to be the rightful rulers of part of "Saudi" Arabia. There are also other Sayid nobility/families around the world, even in Europe.

Some of the bloodier conflicts in Europe and other lands were ended but such marriages.

As for a revolt, I don't think it would matter about the oil, recall that certain extremists seized the shrines some years ago, and it took the Saudis, along with French Special Forces much of a week to drag them out.

And when the oil does start to end, the Wahhabi Disneyland the Sauds have built will come tumbling down, it is certainly the most luxurious welfare state on the planet for the people, and that itself will not be a pretty thing, and the social unrest could be easily turned against the House of Saud by any number of interests.

< Message edited by YN -- 2/9/2013 1:45:18 PM >

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 2:10:52 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Since they already live under a benevolent dictatorship (monarchy), why 'must' they move down and democratize like Egypt?

There is little benevolent about the House of Saud's reign in KSA. They let the mutaween, religious "police" thugs, to run rampant. This includes banning the sale of dogs and cats as being a western influence.

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 2:39:00 PM

Powergamz1

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Do you have anything either correct or useful on the topic?

Your constant strawman attempts to derail threads where people are having an actual discussion are a waste of time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Since they already live under a benevolent dictatorship (monarchy), why 'must' they move down and democratize like Egypt?

A monarchy isn't necessarily a dictatorship, dear: google the difference between ruling and reigning.

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 2/9/2013 2:50:05 PM >

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 2:48:05 PM

Powergamz1

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Upon the death of Abdullah, all sorts of interesting claims will no doubt be raised. When the oil goes (or more likely, when the Chinese reach full capacity in the Sudan) all bets will be off.

Right now the complaints you have mentioned seem to have a lot of currency, and little traction... that is of course subject to change.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Since an attack on the Sauds is an attack on Mecca and Medina, and on their supply of oil to the outside world, 'bloody' is putting in mildly. I don't imagine that they see the need for reconciliation, as long as they hold that hand.

And they do need to intermarry for purely genetic reasons, it can't be pleasant getting those medical procedures all the time.

The House of Saud's notorious inbreeding aside (I see the Saudis are ranked as the most inbred population on the planet by medical studies on such matters) I was referring to the Jordanian rulers being Sayids (and also claimed to be the rightful rulers of part of "Saudi" Arabia. There are also other Sayid nobility/families around the world, even in Europe.

Some of the bloodier conflicts in Europe and other lands were ended but such marriages.

As for a revolt, I don't think it would matter about the oil, recall that certain extremists seized the shrines some years ago, and it took the Saudis, along with French Special Forces much of a week to drag them out.

And when the oil does start to end, the Wahhabi Disneyland the Sauds have built will come tumbling down, it is certainly the most luxurious welfare state on the planet for the people, and that itself will not be a pretty thing, and the social unrest could be easily turned against the House of Saud by any number of interests.

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 2:50:08 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Do you have anything either correct or useful on the topic?

Your constant attempts to derail threads where people are having an actual discussion are a wastet of time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Since they already live under a benevolent dictatorship (monarchy), why 'must' they move down and democratize like Egypt?

A monarchy isn't necessarily a dictatorship, dear: google the difference between ruling and reigning.

I live in a monarchy where the monarch has no power or authority.
Don't use bullshit generalisations if you don't enjoy having people point out that you're talking crap.

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 2:57:58 PM

Powergamz1

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None of which changes the fact that you are once again deliberately making up a strawman when you claim I made any such generalizations.

King Abdullah enjoys the same level of power as a dictator, the panel of 'advisor sheiks' has no effective direct power over him, thus the words 'dictatorship' and 'monarchy' apply.

Since I wasn't talking about a titular monarch, you are simply once again trolling to derail a thread into being all about you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Do you have anything either correct or useful on the topic?

Your constant attempts to derail threads where people are having an actual discussion are a wastet of time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Since they already live under a benevolent dictatorship (monarchy), why 'must' they move down and democratize like Egypt?

A monarchy isn't necessarily a dictatorship, dear: google the difference between ruling and reigning.

I live in a monarchy where the monarch has no power or authority.
Don't use bullshit generalisations if you don't enjoy having people point out that you're talking crap.

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 2/9/2013 2:58:36 PM >

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"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 3:22:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I live in a monarchy where the monarch has no power or authority.
Don't use bullshit generalisations if you don't enjoy having people point out that you're talking crap.

We are discussing the governing structure of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, not that of the United Kingdom. Nor did Powergamz even mention your kingdom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Since they already live under a benevolent dictatorship (monarchy), why 'must' they move down and democratize like Egypt?

The question merely asks if the Arabians living under the rule of the House of Saud might consider revolt while the oil dole keeps them in relatively luxury.

Powergamz' description of the Saudis is accurate. i.e. a monarchy ruling over a oil powered welfare state as a benevolent dictator (Saudi Arabia is considered an "absolute monarchy".) They even named the place after their family.

Do you have a better description of the Saudi kingdom to post?

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 5:07:23 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

TY switch. Damn informative. Maybe ashjor will also chime in from Damascus.

Likewise Switch

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 5:34:00 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Do you have anything either correct or useful on the topic?

Your constant strawman attempts to derail threads where people are having an actual discussion are a waste of time.

Moonheads post was pretty pertinent. not only that it was 100% correct.

I would suggest you are the one strawmanning.

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RE: Primer on the Middle East - 2/9/2013 5:41:00 PM

Politesub53

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Switch, how do you see honour codes such as Pashtunwali affecting being a Muslim. I am aware of Islam always taking precedent but the honour codes, especially pertaining to guests, expalins much about the Talibans relationship to AQ. I know there wasnt much love between the Taliban and Saudis who came to the country, even between Bin Laden and Mullah Omar.

I also read about a Pashtun giving sanctuary to a US soldier on the run from AQ. So that seems to me his Pashtunwali code of hounour was clearly extended to a non-Muslim

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Post #: 32