shibari questions (Full Version)

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triumph2009 -> shibari questions (2/8/2013 9:03:14 AM)

I have very recently started getting to know about the art that is shibari. What I have not been able to find out is why the art is almost majorly dom suspending and binding a sub woman (apologies if my lingo isnt quite right). Is this because shibari is only a dom over woman? Is it called something else if it is G/G, or madame bonding a male or M/M? I'm going to definitly continue my reaserch on this but I was just hoping someone with more experience might be able to shed some light. Thank you.



mnottertail -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 9:06:50 AM)

Well, there are exceptions, Midori and so on...but consider the culture it came from.  

Men subduing and constraining women is a large theme.  

The other way round is less so, but far from non-mainstream.

Besides womens moving parts look better tied up than peeners do.




Hillwilliam -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 9:08:17 AM)

I'm going to take a bit of a stab at this one.

Shibari is about aesthetics more than Dominance.

It's a visual art more than mental so it's intended to be pleasing to the eye (pretty).

I'm gonna let you in on a deep dark SEEKRIT.

Women are prettier than men.



triumph2009 -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 10:01:40 AM)

I can definitly understand the said perspectives, however, can a man's constrained body not be beautiful as well? I take for instance Michealagelo's David, such a classical depiction of beauty in the form of a male, albeit in a different format and by all accounts falls into socially accepted standards of art. But only a woman's figure is beautiful when constrained? Why?



Lynnxz -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 10:08:55 AM)

Most of the suspensions I have seen have been with teenie females- perhaps it's a weight issue?


It appears it CAN be very well done though. I'd love to see this live!

[image]local://upfiles/338059/51BBC65B1B7F4D2497BF0641FF08DEA9.jpg[/image]



mnottertail -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 10:09:51 AM)

I dont remember any rope a doping with Mike Angel.  I am trying to conceive of a way in which that was restrained.  You may make a better case for Rodin's Thinker.



Lynnxz -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 10:13:04 AM)

Maybe it's a money Issue. Most people into bondage and that sort of thing tend to be M/f couples.

You'll likely sell more photos of the f in bondage, seeing as it appeals to the power arrangement of that couple.



Hillwilliam -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 10:16:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: triumph2009

I can definitly understand the said perspectives, however, can a man's constrained body not be beautiful as well? I take for instance Michealagelo's David, such a classical depiction of beauty in the form of a male, albeit in a different format and by all accounts falls into socially accepted standards of art. But only a woman's figure is beautiful when constrained? Why?

Because I don't see men's bodies as beautiful. period.

I'm just straight that way.

I'm sure if you asked Unholy Bear and Lance, they'd disagree strenuously LOL.



wannapleez -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 10:23:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: triumph2009

I can definitly understand the said perspectives, however, can a man's constrained body not be beautiful as well? I take for instance Michealagelo's David, such a classical depiction of beauty in the form of a male, albeit in a different format and by all accounts falls into socially accepted standards of art. But only a woman's figure is beautiful when constrained? Why?


I read the entire thread three times, because I was sure that I missed something, based on your comments. But no, I didn't. It's simply that you are arguing against something that no one ever said.

Everyone used words like "more" and "better" and "prettier". These are comparatives, not superlatives, and certainly not absolutes.



wannapleez -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 11:03:58 AM)

(Note: the majority of my remarks will have in mind a straight orientation. YMMV.)

I think that the "why" is being over-thought, though.

As has been noted here, shibari is a visual art. It's more about visual aesthetics than bondage/power/etc. In general, men are more visually-oriented than women. So right off the bat, that will skew the demand toward an audience that is more male, wanting to see subjects that are female.

In addition, the ropes are a kind of adornment. Overall, adornment is more a female thing than a male thing -- e.g. women tend to wear much more jewelry and to accessorize in other manners. Meanwhile, we men sniff the pits of our plaid shirt and as long as they don't stink, we figure we're good to go, even in those striped pants.

Finally -- and hear me out on this, because a cursory reading is going to sound like bullshit -- I think that many men are more lax in what they enjoy seeing than women are. The picture that Lynnxz is good -- even the straightest guy can admit that the guy in the pic is good-looking (at least of what can be seen). But he's so far from the norm, it's not even funny. Not that women want everything they see to look that good -- but because they're generally not wired to be as visually-oriented, their standards are higher. Meanwhile, a guy gets a glimpse of an A or a DDD, and he shouts "BOOBIES!" :)

Again I'm talking about what a person enjoys seeing, not what they expect in a live person.

So there's a larger "sample" of visually acceptable female shibari subjects than male shibari subjects.



triumph2009 -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 11:12:23 AM)

I am in no way trying to argue in absolutisms, im just trying to figure out what makes a bonded woman prettier or better than a man and not just different? It seems to me by the picture posted above (appreciate the contribution btw lynnxz) that the masculine form in suspension can be just as appealing to the eye as a feminine. And as for hillwill's remarks, get some culture dude. I'm just as straight as any machinist level, but I can still appreciatw a message that an artist is trying to convey regardless of the medium. I am just trying to find out why it isnt a more common practice and to the other contributions I am glad for your thoughts and insights.



triumph2009 -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 11:16:41 AM)

I hadnt thought of it like that. Thanks wannapleez that makes a lot more sense to me now



wannapleez -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 12:18:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: triumph2009
I am in no way trying to argue in absolutisms,


Well, you asked two absolute rhetorical questions (see quote below), so it was only natural to assume that you were trying to argue in absolutisms.

quote:


* ... can a man's constrained body not be beautiful as well?
* But only a woman's figure is beautiful when constrained?



wannapleez -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 12:20:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: triumph2009

I hadnt thought of it like that. Thanks wannapleez that makes a lot more sense to me now


You're welcome.

BTW, I'm not arguing against any of the other theories. I was just trying to drill down to more general thoughts that were less about a specific person's (or demographic's) tastes or desires.



LadyPact -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 12:37:20 PM)

Let's see if I'm understanding you right.

Regardless of the gender of the person being tied or the gender of the person doing the tying, it's still shabari. The word itself just means "to tie" and those of us who have ripped off the technique in the west have basically convoluted that definition to Japanese rope bondage or rope bondage art.

So, why do you see more women tied up than men? There's a few reasons for that in the het BDSM realm. The prevalence of M/f couples has already been mentioned but you also have to remember that there are a number of more male tops out there to begin with compared to female tops. Next, you have to think of the advantages of using the female bottom. While both genders can be beautiful in form, women have curves and breasts that are aesthetically pleasing and rope bondage accentuates that.

In addition to this, the average female is smaller than the average male. This comes out to two different advantages when using female bottoms. Depending on how extensive the tie is going to be, when you have a smaller model, you are going to use less rope. It's easier to reach around a smaller frame than a larger one, so for somebody like Me who happens to be 5'2", I have more stretching around and stepping about to tie a male bigger than me than a male rigger tying a gal who is smaller than him.

Then, you have to think about suspension. It's just plain easier to create an anchor point that holds less weight than more. Pulleys that are capable of hoisting more weight are more expensive, etc. That leads to the bottom line (cost) being different depending on the size of your subject.

I don't really consider Myself a rigger, but I hope this will help.



wannapleez -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 12:46:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
... women have curves and breasts that are aesthetically pleasing and rope bondage accentuates that.


Thanks. I don't think a guy could have gotten away with noting that. ;-)



SomethingCatchy -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 4:10:23 PM)

I'll go ahead and say it - the picture on your profile shows an incredibly attractive torso that I would adore seeing hemp rope on.



StrictlyADomina -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 4:30:20 PM)

I would say that it is the same reason the most porn is generated for male consumption. "Boys like to see stuff" Generally speaking, we women are not that highly visually aroused. There are female rigger discussion groups on fetlife.

I'm not seeing the cost issue as a major deterrent for binding a male submissive/slave/bottom/rope bunny. For suspension most use 10mm non-slip rope like hemp, 8mm for other ties and 4mm for genital ties, I haven't found it is all that pricey. I buy organic hemp by the 100 foot length dye it and finish it myself. It is a process, but it is certainly not rocket science to prep hemp rope nor is it cost prohibitive.

As to why more women are not into it, I have no clue. I enjoy it. There are women who like having a boy in a maids costume cleaning, that's not my thing. I don't think that male dominants in large numbers have their female subs dressed as mechanics washing/working on their cars. Who knows why? Everyone is different.



wannapleez -> RE: shibari questions (2/8/2013 5:32:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy
I'll go ahead and say it - the picture on your profile shows an incredibly attractive torso that I would adore seeing hemp rope on.


I hate it when a woman beats around the bush. ;-)



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