submission / a passing fancy or a core issue

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CelticPrince -> submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 6:25:10 PM)
I have been on the path for a couple of decades and a generally well respected Dominant for most of that time. I have mentored many both on line as well as r/t and have the pleasure of a few fine submissives where the parting was without animosity. Few because i take the time to really vet and get to know the submissive on a step process. Far less problems on the first real time meeting etc. Over the past five years, I have become aware of a thrend toward new subs, both male and female coming into the lifestyle claiming they finally found "home" after all these years. some I have kept track of and was able to determine they went back to vanilla. was D/s just a passing fancy? Many come after a failed marriage hoping to find what did not happen in a vanilla marriage those that are submissive as a matter of core, are always there, sometimes in different relationships but always safely on the path. Any thoughts? CP

CreativeDominant -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 6:41:10 PM)
I've not been at WIITWD as long as you. I have met many submissives and have stayed friends with quite a few of them. Of the submissives that I have been in relationships with of 3 mos. or longer, I am still in touch with almost all. Of all that I have met, there HAS been a small number that went back to vanilla. One that I was involved with seriously began questioning her submission (or at least, her perceived depth vs. her real depth) at the end of our relationship. I have not been in touch with her in a long time. I think for some, it is a passing fancy...on both sides of the coin but you speak here only of submission...to try and broaden their horizon of life experiences. For some, the "rumored" refuge/stability of D/s made it what was sought after the devastation of their vanilla world, as you noted, but then found a real difficulty in not bringing the baggage from the vanilla world with them in a detrimental fashion. For others, I think there was a genuine interest not only in the BDSM but in the D/s but they had the bad luck to continually meet up with those whose primary goal was submission from the girl but who saw no need to be responsible in their ways and thus, they became soured (a lack of patience on their part too). My experiences only, YMMV.

LadiesBladewing -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 6:43:57 PM)
I think that any time that people are still learning themselves, they will try things. If it is something truly intense, they will revel a while in the intensity, and then, when the intensity gets to be too much, it isn't fulfilling the person's needs, or the intensity wears off, they find that they're not as entranced as they thought they were. I think that any time that an individual takes the responsibility of working with newcomers, about 75% of them will end up drifting somewhere else, 25% will hang on for several years, and 2-3% will truly find a home there. I've found this as a mentor in this lifestyle, in the alternative health lifestyle, in the vegetarian lifestyle, and in the alternative spirituality lifestyle. To me, that doesn't mean over-vetting. I'm in this to give people the chance to learn more about themselves and become more who they are by opening possibilities they may not have considered. If I over-vette, looking for the individuals who will "stick forever", I may miss an opportunity to open a mind or give someone who -isn't- going to stay forever an opportunity to at least hear how the voice of this life sounds to them. ZWD

kiska -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 6:45:08 PM)
OK what the heck is WIITWD?

Misstoyou -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 6:48:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiska OK what the heck is WIITWD? What It Is That We Do ** Edited to add that of course, in practice, we all do different things, but nevertheless...[:)]

irishbynature -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 6:51:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I think for some, it is a passing fancy...on both sides of the coin but you speak here only of submission... Being a natural submissive, (in my experience), it has never been a fancy...just who and what I am.

kiska -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 6:52:30 PM)
Oh and to answer the OP, I'm one of those submissives who came to the lifestyle and felt like she'd found home ... I've also walked away from the lifestyle. It felt like leaving a huge part of me and trying to bury it and stifle it. I have moment when I will speak to submissive friends of mine and they'll talk about things they do with their Masters and it physically hurts that I don't have that anymore ... For me, its mostly a matter of accepting that I can't seem to choose the right dominant. I tend to get involved with men who use the notion of dominance and mastery as an excuse to be horrible and abusive. I know several really good dominants but they are not interested in me in that way. They either have girls of their own or they're looking for casual play, not serious relationships, or any other variety of reasons. Point is, they don't want me. So rather than continuously thrust myself into situations where I know I'm likely to get hurt and end up in worse trouble, I'm sitting on the sidelines, trying to make things work with a vanilla guy. I know a lot of dominants (and submissives) will shake their heads over this but the thing is, its better to be in a less than fulfilling relationship than to be in one where you fear for your life. I've been single before and I could be single again ... I have no fear of singleness ... But I do care for this guy and if I can make it work, thats what I want to do. If it doesn't work with him, I may or may not actively pursue another D/s relationship. I just don't know at this point.

shyfem -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 6:53:03 PM)
kiska, WIITWD = what it is that we do* To answer the OP, I have talked to many Dom and sub alike who have the same feelings as you. I think that for some they come looking for something different out of curiousity, etc. find it is not for them and leave. Others may find happiness again in a vanilla relationship that has a little spicy flavor and then I think there will be a few left when all is said and done. I personally cannot tell you for sure I will be left after years if I become jaded, however, my submission is true and at the very depth of my being. ~shy ----------------------------------------- May all who tread here find what they seek!

kiska -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 6:54:03 PM)
Thank you!

reticence -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 7:01:04 PM)
I think there has always been an element of D/s in all relationships I have ever been in. When i discovered the lifestyle, I did have that feeling of "coming home". I, too, have walked away at times, but always returned. I have been around long enough to have made friends with submissive women that have returned to the vanilla life; one because she questioned her submissiveness, one, because she just gave up finding a dominant man that she "fit" with. I thnk, perhaps for some, it is a stop on their path, they take from it what they have learned about themselves and move on. For some it is where we belong.

enigmabrat -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 7:44:10 PM)
I cant speek for others but for me this isnt a passing fansy I dont even look for venilla relationships never had one never desired one

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 7:57:13 PM)
I know that guite a few of the people I have talked to who went back to vanilla did so because they either got burnt by choosing unwisely when they first ventured in, or they got tired of trying to find "The One" in a smaller dating pool. The sad thing is, many of them find a vanilla relationship but never truly lose their urge for this lifestyle. Often they yo-yo back and forth, or cheat to get their needs met. If you add these people to the ones who were really just into it for the kink factor and honestly thought they wanted more, then I think you get some idea of why you see the trend you see. Personally, I agree with reticence, there has always been D/s unspoken in my relationships, and now that I have a name for it, I will continue on in a more self-aware way. No "going back" to vanilla...since I never was "vanilla" to begin with.

akisha -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/20/2006 10:16:01 PM)
Considering I tried for years to deny my submissive side and always came back to it. When I was ignoring that need with in my personality I was unsettled and unhappy. I'd say it's a core issue

D1961wildchild -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/21/2006 3:41:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: reticence I think there has always been an element of D/s in all relationships I have ever been in. When i discovered the lifestyle, I did have that feeling of "coming home". I, too, have walked away at times, but always returned. I have been around long enough to have made friends with submissive women that have returned to the vanilla life; one because she questioned her submissiveness, one, because she just gave up finding a dominant man that she "fit" with. I thnk, perhaps for some, it is a stop on their path, they take from it what they have learned about themselves and move on. For some it is where we belong. At 43yrs of age I look back on my life and feel it is safe to say I have always been a submissive, and there was elements of D/s in most of my relationships. Unfortunately like that song where she "looked for love in all the wrong places" ... I looked for strength in all the wrong places hence the D/s elements tended to be of an unhealthy variety and many of these relationships were mentally and/or physically abusive. Without going into a pyhcological debate, I looked for strength and security in a partner for all sorts of reasons, I ended up in general; with control freaks and tostestoronal overloaded primitives. I do not have a crystal ball and can not say "hey I will be in L/s for the rest of my days" ... but I do think this is likely. I also aknowledge that I was fortunate to meet Sir after only couple of bad experiences ... had there been more would I have stayed in L/s? would I have left and maybe returned later? Who knows but I can understand those who have. However regardless of what the future holds the growth and learning acheived through my time in L/s has changed me for the better, and for that I will always be thankful. I have a different concept of what strength is that I am looking for, of what security is also because I found someone who helped me to find it within rather than look for it to come from outside, and the funny thing is that finding the strength and security within has made me able to accept that that is offered to me by Him. In all an acceptance of who I am, that has allowed me to accept so much of the world arround me, and made it a better place for me to live in. Though the lessons may be different for each individual, I can see how someone may seek, find and then move on or back to vanila. So rather than a trend or a passing fancy, I look at it this way. Life is a journey and for some L/s is the path they choose for there journey but for others it is just a shortcut to somewhere else that suits them better, or simply a side track on there way.The world would be a borring place if all our journeys were the same.

twicehappy -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/21/2006 3:52:40 AM)
I've been a slave in this lifestyle since a very young age, it is not what i do it is who i am. I've only ever been in three collars, the first Master died after three years, the second after eighteen years; i am currently in my third. I do not think i am capable of doing vanilla, i have never even tried. I have seen quite a few who "came to the dark side" looking for something they did not have in the vanilla world. Most did not stay, mainly i think because once they realized that being a sub/slave requires a tremendous amount of work and self realization. If they could not put that kind of effort into a vanilla relationship they certainly were not going to take the extra steps for a D/s or M/s one. The ones that did stay that i know are still around, this is what they were missing, but i honestly have to say these are far fewer than the ones who left.

Padriag -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/21/2006 4:13:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CelticPrince Over the past five years, I have become aware of a thrend toward new subs, both male and female coming into the lifestyle claiming they finally found "home" after all these years. some I have kept track of and was able to determine they went back to vanilla. was D/s just a passing fancy? Many come after a failed marriage hoping to find what did not happen in a vanilla marriage You seem to be answering your own question. For some, yes, it was a passing fancy, a phase, a wrong turn on the road of Life. Is that really so surprising? People will explore new options and ideas through out their life. Whether that be a new career or a new form of relationship, or just trying a new resteraunt... we all explore. Sometimes that leads to new things we like and sometimes we decide we'll never eat at that resteraunt again. Its just choices, people finding what suits them. For some, they try BDSM or D/s and later find it really doesn't suit them. quote: those that are submissive as a matter of core, are always there, sometimes in different relationships but always safely on the path. Any thoughts? This is the part of your post I found a little troubling. You may not have intended it, but there's a bit of arrogance here. "Safely on the path," sounds as though you are condemning those who left the "lifestyle." Sounds a bit like what I used to hear growing up in churches about someone who left the church. For some, yes, being submissive is a core part of their personality, just as for some being dominant is a core part. But there are plenty of people for who that is not true, switches being an example that comes quickly to mind. Not having it as a core part of who they are doesn't make the choices of those people any less valid. Some few will find a style of life in BDSM. Many more will find a style of relationship. And there will always be a large group for whom it was a passing interest, something that just wasn't really for them. To all of them, I wish them luck in their quest for happiness.

Driver1961 -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/21/2006 4:21:16 AM)
Ummm, this D61wildchild needs to stop 'running' from one posting to another and 'walk' with her spellchecker! Nice post but! I like to say to my Precious, 'Sit the fxxx down, shut the fxxx up, and listen to what I am saying' maybe an additional saying is in the offering to slow her cyberpostslutting! Ha, her face will drop folks with this post before her smile appears...... Warm regards to all. Driver1961, Sir to His loving Wildchild.

ClassAct2006 -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/21/2006 4:37:49 AM)
It's a core issue for me. I was in touch with three really suitable lovely men recently not from BDSM web sites two of whom said they might try being dominant and sadly I just had to terminate things, with some regret because to find men near me with similar interests, lives, families, hobbies who are also single is pretty hard and when someone ticks all those boxes and is quite fit too it seems such a waste to lose someone just because of the BDSM issue. On the other hand for me I feel as different from a vanilla man as if I were a gay man and going out with a woman. I don't know how to react or be with a non dominant man. I've tried it. I can't make it work. I have always been submissive from as young as I could possibly remember and in every relationship ever and the domiant men I've been with I think have all said they were always like this too. I am not saying someone cannot suddenly change or even suddenly discover things lurking in them but I don't find dominant men like that attractive. I need those for whom it's almost etched in their DNA, that they cannot be any other way even if they chose to.

meatcleaver -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/21/2006 4:56:12 AM)
My guess is as in all things, there are people who are looking for something that isn't there. The answer to ones questions about oneself are not out there in the big wide world, be it vanilla or BDSM but in ones own head. If someone is looking for an easy solution in their quest for happiness they are usually looking in the wrong place when they should be looking in the mirror. Other than that, everyone has fantasies and no one knows just what should stay fantasy and what they really would like to experience as an integral part of their lives until one has tried something for real. How the we perceive ourselves and how others perceive us and how we are in reality, are probably all different creatures. People in relationships change depending on their partner and will change again with a new partner. We are in a constant state of flux so to think any life style is a once and for all solution to ones happiness is probably wrong. We have different needs and tastes at different times. Some people are lucky in finding a place in life where they fit snugly.

sabswife -> RE: submission / a passing fancy or a core issue (6/21/2006 5:04:38 AM)
well there are a lot of different reasons why someone might "go back to vanilla". perhaps they only wanted the try it, didn't like it, and realized it wasn't for them. perhaps they only really wanted the kinky sex side of things, fell into a full D/s or M/s relationship and rather then just find a Top, they backed away from it all. perhaps they were hurt by a Dom or Master wannabe and they fear trying again. true submissives are true submissives -- there are failed relationships on both sides of the fence, such is is the journey to finding yourself-- its never easy. i have many failed vanilla relationships now i am in a very successful D/s relationship. i am sure there are people from failed power exchange relationships who have moved on to successful vanilla ones. the point is, if you don't try it, you will never know :)

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