RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society

RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (Full Version)

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RacerJim -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 11:21:25 AM)
My, my, my...whatever happened to pro-choice?

mnottertail -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 11:24:22 AM)
Anyone can be pro-choice. Nevertheless, the law of the land is Roe v. Wade. Thank you for playing out in left field, as per usual.

MrRodgers -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 11:30:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne as distasteful as it may be, it works like this. the government only has authority over the entities it created. So it can say that any company or corporation formed under it like a hospital has to hire and use who ever is available, however privately you have the right to discriminate all you want against whom ever or whatever you want. Its called the freedom to choose. this whole thread to me glows in the dark with ignorance.. Once the state business is formed, it must subscribe to the state law. Once the hospital hired the nurse, then the patient must deal with it or leave the hosp. The hosp. should have shown this guy the door simple as that and because [it] complied with patient's discrimination, it should be sued. As for a colorblind society, don't hold your breath. I have actually heard coming from the mouth of a man I once called my friend..."they should drag that N...out of the white house and shoot his bl... ass. Next question.....

Fightdirecto -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 11:47:15 AM)
It seems there is a legal decision on a similar case in 2010 (CHANEY v. PLAINFIELD HEALTHCARE CENTER, U.S. Court of Appeals, 7th Circuit). The Court ruled in favor of the nurse and against the Healthcare Center.

tazzygirl -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 12:11:22 PM)
~FR On a personal note. I cannot, for the life of me, fathom why a nurse with the same credentials as me, the same training, who took and passed the same nursing exam as me, who is equally as trained as I am, would be inferior simply because of his/her skin color.

cordeliasub -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 3:26:02 PM)
First, this guy is a tool. And considering that this nurse was caring for his child who needed care.....the fact that his biggest concern was not his baby but the color of the nurse....well THAT just speaks volumes about his character. As far as color blindness goes - that will never happen in America, not between people like this guy, people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jack son, and people like some of the inbred rednecks who live in my town. None of them WANT a color blond society because A) it would mean they'd have to be around people with a variety of amounts of melanin or B) they'd be out of a job stirring up trouble.

Kirata -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 4:58:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I don't recall much of anyone ever saying that we are a color blind society----not ever. There's always a party-pooper. [:D] K.

jlf1961 -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 6:43:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim My, my, my...whatever happened to pro-choice? You mean that we have only one choice of each of the various whiskeys to drink?

DesideriScuri -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 7:43:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Depending on the ability of the hospital to staff their maternity ward and NICU to accommodate the request, I think it should have been allowed. If there was always a racially diverse staff anyway, then, what's the problem? I would have much rather you included that part where I stated that had there been an inconvenience to the hospital, I could easily see the patient being charged more. Charge more? This isnt about money on that end. And what insurance company will cover that extra charge? In order to accommodate his request, the hospital now has to amend their chedule to aldo include racial as well as the knowledge base? Yes, charge more. I can't see an insurance company covering the extra charge, either. Thus, it would fall upon the patient. Should the hospital be forced to go out of its way to fill the requests of racial discriminators? No. But, if there was already a diverse nursing staff, this would easily have been accommodated. If there isn't a diverse nursing staff, than this patient was SOL. Hospitals should continue to follow their quality guidelines with regards to hiring. If that request couldn't be filled, then someone would have to make him understand the reality of the situation. Was it an unreasonable request? IMO, absolutely. Was it made by some fuckstick? Again, I think so. Should the hospital have to comply? No. If the hospital could have complied without scheduling and/or hiring changes, then, it could have complied if it wanted to. quote: So we now have to racially profile the nursing staff, respiratory therapy, lab, house keeping, dietary... this isnt just about the nursing staff. If that's what you think I said, you're way the fuck wrong.

DesideriScuri -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/19/2013 7:46:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR On a personal note. I cannot, for the life of me, fathom why a nurse with the same credentials as me, the same training, who took and passed the same nursing exam as me, who is equally as trained as I am, would be inferior simply because of his/her skin color. I hope that inability never changes. There is no reason for it. At all.

tazzygirl -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 12:56:43 AM)
quote: Yes, charge more. I can't see an insurance company covering the extra charge, either. Thus, it would fall upon the patient. Should the hospital be forced to go out of its way to fill the requests of racial discriminators? No. But, if there was already a diverse nursing staff, this would easily have been accommodated. If there isn't a diverse nursing staff, than this patient was SOL. Hospitals should continue to follow their quality guidelines with regards to hiring. If that request couldn't be filled, then someone would have to make him understand the reality of the situation. Was it an unreasonable request? IMO, absolutely. Was it made by some fuckstick? Again, I think so. Should the hospital have to comply? No. If the hospital could have complied without scheduling and/or hiring changes, then, it could have complied if it wanted to. Thats why I said its a bad precedent. Start a policy, even for one patient, and it becomes the norm. As far as charging more, that service is already provided. Its called a private duty nurse. And that still wont ensure that, in this case, someone of color isnt on the code team. quote: If that's what you think I said, you're way the fuck wrong. I didnt say you said that, did I. But, again, this isnt just about the nursing staff. if dad had walked in and found a respiratory therapist who was black working on his child, he would have flipped.

LafayetteLady -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 2:44:16 AM)
First to be clear the guy is a fuckwit of huge magnitude. However, DesideriScuri's suggestion of charging more has some merit. Just bear with me a moment here.... Fuckwit doesn't want any nurses of color attending to his child. Ok, open racist asshole. However, I am wondering what his response would have been had the hospital said something to this effect: "Mr. Fuckwit, we understand your request, however, we are unable to honor it within our normal staffing. However, private nurses can be brought in meeting your requirements, and they will cost you $2000 a day, and we doubt your insurance will cover it, so you must pay in advance weekly. If you are unable to do that, then I'm sorry, we will not be able to honor your request." The reason I'm saying this is because this would let Mr. Fuckwit know that while he is Constitutionally given the right to be a racist, it's gonna cost him.

SadistDave -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 2:46:00 AM)
Is dude an idiot? Certainly! Racist? Obviously. However, I don't see how the nurses were really hurt in this at all. Unless the hospital didn't pay them for the time they weren't taking care of Bull Connors baby, then the hospital did not really discriminate against them in a manner that passes legal muster. Essentially, they are alleging that the hospital did not allow them to force their expertise on someone who did not want it, but that they did not suffer any negative workplace stigma by the hospital staff, nor did they suffer financial hardship because of their race. They got their feelings hurt. I don't know how many people bothered to read the second page of that article, but there is a pretty interesting point there... I'll provide the opposite side of the same point for the sake of arguement. By law you cannot discriminate based on race, sex, or religion, etc.. However women are not forced to have male doctors or nurses. Muslims are not forced to have Jewish doctors or nurses. Therefore there is clearly a precident that suggests that discrimination is perfectly acceptable in some cases. If you deny someone the right to choose their caregiver based on race, then by default the system becomes open to lawsuits by caregivers who are discriminated against for reasons that have been considered to be perfectly acceptable up to this point. Honestly, this is the sort of thing where I can only say "Be careful what you wish for." Yeah, everyone thinks this sucks. If this case goes forward though and succeeds, then there is every possibility that, as a result, some hospitals will adopt "no tolerance" discrimination policies. Rape victims could be forced to suffer the care of the opposite sex during very difficult circumstances. I think that's really the worst, but people might not be able to choose caregivers based on the criteria that are important to them any more. Religious considerations? Gone. The flip side.... non-believers may be forced to accept the care of religious staffers who want to proclaim their faith at every turn. Do you need halal or kosher food? Too bad, so sad. Do you have mental issues from childhood trauma that make you legitimately afraid of people based on their race, sex, or sexual orientation... tough shit. It won't be anytime soon, but this sort of lawsuit could open up a floodgate of ugly. I am curious how many women who have been raped will be overly eager to report rapes or other violence if they are forced to have male nurses and doctors care for them when the are taken to the hospital. Hospitals aside, this also opens up all sorts of delicate considerations, from women not being afforded the benefit of having female police officers frisk them, to dietary considerations based on religion, and could feasably limit consumer rights in any number of ways. -SD-

Zonie63 -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 3:53:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave By law you cannot discriminate based on race, sex, or religion, etc.. However women are not forced to have male doctors or nurses. Muslims are not forced to have Jewish doctors or nurses. Therefore there is clearly a precident that suggests that discrimination is perfectly acceptable in some cases. Is this true? I did not know this. What if it's an emergency and the only medical personnel available are of a certain race, gender, or religion? I also don't understand the singling out of a particular race or religion in cases like this. If Muslims don't want a Jewish doctor or nurse taking care of them, does that mean they'd be okay with a Christian or Hindu doctor? That guy in Michigan has a swastika tattoo, but he said he didn't want any African-Americans taking care of his baby. Does that mean that he'd be okay with other races or even a Jewish nurse taking care of his baby? I feel sorry for the baby more than anyone. This kid is in for a rough life, with a father like that.

SadistDave -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 5:57:08 AM)
From page 2 of the OPs article: quote: One in three doctors in a 2007 survey said they felt patients believed they got better care if they matched their doctor's race. Patients' requests were more likely to be honored if the request came from someone who was female, non-white or Muslim, according to a report on the survey written in part by a University of Michigan researcher. But just how often hospitals receive requests based on race is unclear. Vickie Winn, a spokeswoman for Children's Hospital of Michigan, said the hospital may try to accommodate a patient's request for providers with a certain religion or gender, but a request for a doctor based on race is different, she said. (Emphasis mine) According to Vickie Winn, her hospital picks and chooses which discriminatory requests her hospital will honor. So, legal or not it is common practice, at least in some Michigan hospitals. Now... I emphasized part of that because apparently Miss Winn feels it's perfectly acceptable to grant these race based requests to everyone except males, or those belonging to special religions. So clearly her hospital already has bigoted policies. Honoring a request by a white person based on race is really not a different thing at all no matter how much she claims that it is... It's apparently acceptable practice to 1/3 of the states doctors. The long and short of it is that her hospital gets away with being bigoted against white males of certain religions by refusing to grant their requests as often as non-whites of special religions because no one will call her on it. -SD-

Fightdirecto -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 6:12:16 AM)
Sometimes the purpose of a lawsuit against a business is not financial compensation, but to force the business to change it's policies. A possible outcome of this specific case might be an out-of-court settlement where the hospitial admits they were wrong, publishes explicit guidelines that would prevent this from happening again and pays the nurse's legal fees but pays no additional financial compensation.

DesideriScuri -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 6:34:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave From page 2 of the OPs article: quote: One in three doctors in a 2007 survey said they felt patients believed they got better care if they matched their doctor's race. Patients' requests were more likely to be honored if the request came from someone who was female, non-white or Muslim, according to a report on the survey written in part by a University of Michigan researcher. But just how often hospitals receive requests based on race is unclear. Vickie Winn, a spokeswoman for Children's Hospital of Michigan, said the hospital may try to accommodate a patient's request for providers with a certain religion or gender, but a request for a doctor based on race is different, she said. (Emphasis mine) According to Vickie Winn, her hospital picks and chooses which discriminatory requests her hospital will honor. So, legal or not it is common practice, at least in some Michigan hospitals. Now... I emphasized part of that because apparently Miss Winn feels it's perfectly acceptable to grant these race based requests to everyone except males, or those belonging to special religions. So clearly her hospital already has bigoted policies. Honoring a request by a white person based on race is really not a different thing at all no matter how much she claims that it is... It's apparently acceptable practice to 1/3 of the states doctors. The long and short of it is that her hospital gets away with being bigoted against white males of certain religions by refusing to grant their requests as often as non-whites of special religions because no one will call her on it. -SD- It could also be that the requests from females, non-whites and Muslims are more easily filled than the rest, too. It might not have anything to do with the gender, race or religious identification, specifically. For instance, if the majority of white male requests would make popular Penthouse Forum letters, then it's not about the request coming from a white male, but the request itself.

SadistDave -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 7:12:35 AM)
If I say I will grant DesideriScuri the right to choose his own doctor because of his religion, then tell Fightdirecto that I will not grant him that same right because his religion does not qualify for him to have that right... I am violating Fightdirectos civil rights. By the same token if I tell Fightdirecto If I say I will grant him the right to choose his own doctor because of his race, then tell DesideriScuri that I will not grant him that same right because his race does not qualify for him to have that right... I am violating DesideriScuri's civil rights. According to Miss Winn, her hospital is doing exactly that. She is discriminating against people of a certain sex, and certain religions by not unilaterally granting them the same priveledges she grants others of a different sex and different religions. These are civil rights violations. It doesn't matter if it's for the greater good or not. Lets pretend the nurse wins the case. Lets further pretend that part of the settlement includes some sort of guideline for who will be selected for the special privilege of selecting their own doctor because of their race, age, sex, sexual orientation and religion. Anyone who does not fit into those privileged categories would have the ability to sue based on the violation of their civil rights. -SD-

mnottertail -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 7:26:16 AM)
So, a woman wants a woman gynocologist, and a muslim woman wants a woman doctor so she doesnt disrobe in front of a man not her husband. And that is like this situation in what respect?

tazzygirl -> RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-blind" Society (2/20/2013 8:46:31 AM)
quote: "Mr. Fuckwit, we understand your request, however, we are unable to honor it within our normal staffing. However, private nurses can be brought in meeting your requirements, and they will cost you $2000 a day, and we doubt your insurance will cover it, so you must pay in advance weekly. If you are unable to do that, then I'm sorry, we will not be able to honor your request." Dont know too many hospitals who provide private duty as a service. Typically they are agency or private hires from the outside. Which leaves the hospital with a huge liability.

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