U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State

U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State (2/23/2013 12:01:49 PM)
Sudden Conversion quote: Religious Right groups spend a lot of time beating on church-state separation. TV preacher Pat Robertson once called that constitutional principle "a lie of the left" and said it comes from the old Soviet Constitution.... Take Alan Sears, for example. Sears runs the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), the nation's largest Religious Right legal group. He once called the church-state wall "artificial." Funny, though, how that "artificial" wall that the Religious Right tells us over and over doesn't exist and was never intended by the Founding Fathers can come in handy sometimes - like when the right wing wants to attack yoga in public schools. In Encinitas, Calif., an attorney named Dean Broyles has filed suit against the Encinitas Union School District, asserting that a voluntary yoga program for students violates church-state separation.... They have no use for separation of church and state when they're trying to inject fundamentalist Christianity into the public schools. When that's their game, they tell the courts, the media and the American people that separation is not a valid legal principle. When they're attacking what they perceive to be school promotion of a religion they don't care for, suddenly the church-state wall is their best friend. Broyles is arguing that the yoga program violates Article I, Section 4 of the California Constitution. That provision is longer than the federal constitution's First Amendment but essentially provides for the same measure of church-state separation. It reads in part, "Free exercise and enjoyment of religion without discrimination or preference are guaranteed.... The Legislature shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.".... What bothers me is that the people behind it are raising church-state separation when they normally have no use for that concept. They seem to believe separation should be ignored when conservative Christians want to use public schools and other units of government to promote their faith but applied vigorously to every other religious group. Sorry, guys, it doesn't work that way. Separation of church and state is the best policy for all religions - and that includes the ones you like best. [image]local://upfiles/42188/7E40DF3C32B94978B3D928CC768B4A38.jpg[/image]

jlf1961 -> RE: U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State (2/23/2013 12:15:58 PM)
Alright, makes sense, except: If I take over the Galaxy and the state religion is worshiping me as a god, which of course, if you do then by Imperial decree the Christians will be legally, acting overtly in secret, hunt down the people who worship me as god and torture them using the tried and true methods of the Spanish Inquisition to cure you of your heresy, which would put you in violation of Imperial Law, which means you will be arrested and brainwashed into worshiping me as a god, which forces the Christians to torture you into believing in god. And while all this is going on, the atheists and agnostics will be working on better ways to improve humanity and thus making the whole cycle unnecessary, and of course I will be watching old Bogart and Bacall movies. Who says you cant use religion to control the masses?

Bigsqueezer -> RE: U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State (2/24/2013 10:52:35 AM)
Follow the money. Christianism is built on fear. (Prepared to back that up - do not come at me with that "Christianity is love" bullshit. Be prepared to explain hell as your cornerstone of theology.)) Scared people cough up money. if they can inject christianism into school they get more scared people and more money. If Yoga stops people from being scared and going to church, they see a threat.

Kirata -> RE: U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State (2/24/2013 8:58:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bigsqueezer Follow the money. Christianism is built on fear... Scared people cough up money. Fear is a very inefficient way of getting money from people, and prone to backfiring. Greed has it beat by a mile. But even leaving that aside, Christians by definition are already "saved". So what do they have to fear? What, precisely, are they so "scared" of in your philosophy? K.

joether -> RE: U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State (2/25/2013 5:01:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Bigsqueezer Follow the money. Christianism is built on fear... Scared people cough up money. Fear is a very inefficient way of getting money from people, and prone to backfiring. Greed has it beat by a mile. But even leaving that aside, Christians by definition are already "saved". So what do they have to fear? What, precisely, are they so "scared" of in your philosophy? What are you smoking? If President Obama were to announce a possible gun ban. Every gun nut from one end of the nation to the other is racing off to the local gun shop to by a few dozen guns, and tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition. The whole time, listening to their right wing radio talk shows, Limbaugh, Beck, and the NRA spewing absolutely total fantasies of 'secret U.N. troops crossing into America', and 'FEMA concentration camps secretly set up around the country". Check out every disaster for the last thirty years. When the massive quake ripped apart southern california, survivial materials flew off the shelves. When the big hurricanes were about to hit Florida, supplies were 'swimming' off the shelves. If anything, fear does a pretty go job of getting money from fearful people. When the President announced he was going to sign some executive orders into place shortly after the mass shooting in Newton, CT; how many right wingers assumed the President was going to nullify the 2nd amendment, and use the US Military to go 'door to door' and remove guns from 'honest and law abiding citizens'? Just about 100% of them! An they rushed out to buy up guns and ammo in huge amounts. An when the executive orders were actually shown to the public, were any of them able to do any of the 'total fantasies' the gun nuts feared the President was going to do? Not a single one. In fact most if not all were simply common sense concepts.

Kirata -> RE: U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State (2/25/2013 5:13:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Fear is a very inefficient way of getting money from people, and prone to backfiring. What are you smoking? If President Obama were to announce a possible gun ban... Yep, people afraid of losing their guns would rush out to send him their last red cent. It's hard to get one past a mind as sharp as yours. K.

GotSteel -> RE: U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State (2/25/2013 1:00:45 PM)
I'm not familiar with that story but it's not unique. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad how those people wall themselves off from reality with their fake facts and fraudulent sources to the point they can get so completely blindsided by the obvious. Watching their epiphanies on the truly obvious, from the wall of separation to sex ed makes me vacillate between mirth and despair.

Kirata -> RE: U.S.A. Fundies/Taliban shift position, now Pro-Separation of Church & State (2/25/2013 3:51:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel It would be funny if it wasn't so sad how those people wall themselves off from reality with their fake facts and fraudulent sources to the point they can get so completely blindsided by the obvious. I don't know where you get the idea that they've been "blindsided" by anything. They want this to be a Christian country, and they're out to make it one. Christian religious practices in schools are fine, others aren't. End of story. Looks to me like you're the only one missing "the obvious" here. K.

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