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RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 7:57:16 AM   
mnottertail


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No, William Jefferson Clinton did not pass it, you need to study up on how our system of government works before you jump in here with this stupid shit.

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RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 8:03:04 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, William Jefferson Clinton did not pass it, you need to study up on how our system of government works before you jump in here with this stupid shit.

Pass what? Can I get that in slo-mo?


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 8:04:17 AM   
mnottertail


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Did not pass DOMA. That went to DS, and I didnt hit a quote it hit next in line.

Not to you Jeff. 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/2/2013 8:05:10 AM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 8:58:22 AM   
Powergamz1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

<SNIP> This is the same court that thinks that wiretapping and recording the entire fucking internet doesn't violate the fourth amendment. I think we lost the government as a whole when we lost the supreme court.


Record the whole internet? You mean look at what people put up on the internet and copy anything you want? Sort of like *you* do everytime you log on? But the Supreme Court should rule that no one else can do it but you?

There is no rational jurist in the world that would rule that if people choose to do something out in the middle of the largest public audience in the world, that the government is supposed to pretend they can't see them.

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 9:16:17 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
<SNIP> This is the same court that thinks that wiretapping and recording the entire fucking internet doesn't violate the fourth amendment. I think we lost the government as a whole when we lost the supreme court.


Record the whole internet? You mean look at what people put up on the internet and copy anything you want? Sort of like *you* do everytime you log on? But the Supreme Court should rule that no one else can do it but you?

There is no rational jurist in the world that would rule that if people choose to do something out in the middle of the largest public audience in the world, that the government is supposed to pretend they can't see them.

the "whole internet" would also include what most people consider private email, voip communications, even private between friends only FB communications.. of course the govt has special software to analyze all that and try to spot people that they feel they should watch and investigate.. btw, the govt referred to OWS activists as "domestic terrorists".. you can bet the govt was recording and watching every time they farted.. including everything they said in both public & private internet communications.. The govt has turned your right to free speech into "terrorism".. gotta love how the US govt can twist things like that..

"In certain documents, divisions of the FBI refer to the Occupy Wall Street protests as a "criminal activity" or even "domestic terrorism.""
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/23/fbi-occupy-wall-street_n_2355883.html

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RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 9:31:45 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Record the whole internet? You mean look at what people put up on the internet and copy anything you want? Sort of like *you* do everytime you log on? But the Supreme Court should rule that no one else can do it but you?

There is no rational jurist in the world that would rule that if people choose to do something out in the middle of the largest public audience in the world, that the government is supposed to pretend they can't see them.

I'm assuming you are completely unschooled in both technology and data security. No, I cannot do what the government does. Neither can you. For instance, you cannot read all my gmail (or any other email) going back over the last decade. The government can. Were you or I try try that we'd be prosecuted for hacking.

So yes, lots and lots of rational jurists would want to know why, exactly, the government can intrude on password protected personal information (such as gmail) without any sort of warrant. They've basically wire-tapped the internet.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 9:51:29 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, William Jefferson Clinton did not pass it, you need to study up on how our system of government works before you jump in here with this stupid shit.


By enacting it, he was also passing it.

(Edited to add...)

Democrats in the HoR supported it: 118-65-2-13.
Democrats in the Senate supported it: 29-14



< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 3/2/2013 10:01:35 AM >


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 10:03:06 AM   
mnottertail


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He signed it into law, as W and the other teabaggers passed many unconstitutional laws destroying our way of life, I guess.

He signed it into law because it was unvetoable.   Lotta Prezes gotta do that, or they would veto every fucking thing the teabaggers unconstitutionally pass.

Your simpletonian views in these matters are common among the teabaggers, but they dont constitute anything contributable to society, nor do they coincide with the reality of the actual legal processes and constitution.  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 10:33:12 AM   
estimer


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Hey guys/girls did you know that the first person to do this was Abraham Lincoln.
I feel this is not completely without logic and should be limited to combatants and individuals that have actively committed an act of or there is SUBSTANTIAL evidence to prove they were going to carry out an attack. But Madow is very skewed and doesn't look at the full picture on what to do with those whom are truly dedicated to the fall of America (like republicans and democrates hehe just kiding well... sort of.)
So Obama is following Lincoln. But what do you do with someone who Is hell bent on Jihad. (so i mean an actual terrorist not a person who is just jailed for no reason.) If you put a radical in prison you will just bread more radicals. That is how MS 13 got to be so large, Thanks Prison. Its a hard question because we value life so strongly. So that means we can't just kill them after they are no longer a combatant so we are left with only one solution incarceration.
I expect some flack back on this but what do you do with that combatant whom is living to die to kill Americans?

Also the argument that "This isn't a war". Is Irrelevant. While its not a war because of some red tape. Soldiers sailors marines, and yeah some airmen are dying as a result of attacks by people who are attacking america not the soldier.
So yes we are in a state of conflict with an enemy that wants to kill us and doesn't care if he/dies trying.

So this is by Lincoln. So Madow Is starting out incorrect by asserting that no other president has done this.

BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:
A PROCLAMATION

Whereas, it has become necessary to call into service not only volunteers but also portions of the militia of the States by draft in order to suppress the insurrection existing in the United States, and disloyal persons are not adequately restrained by the ordinary processes of law from hindering this measure and from giving aid and comfort in various ways to the insurrection;

Now, therefore, be it ordered, first, that during the existing insurrection and as a necessary measure for suppressing the same, all Rebels and Insurgents, their aiders and abettors within the United States, and all persons discouraging volunteer enlistments, resisting militia drafts, or guilty of any disloyal practice, affording aid and comfort to Rebels against the authority of United States, shall be subject to martial law and liable to trial and punishment by Courts Martial or Military Commission:

Second. That the Writ of Habeas Corpus is suspended in respect to all persons arrested, or who are now, or hereafter during the rebellion shall be, imprisoned in any fort, camp, arsenal, military prison, or other place of confinement by any military authority of by the sentence of any Court Martial or Military Commission.

In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the City of Washington this twenty fourth day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-two, and of the Independence of the United States the 87th.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN

(This should be fun.)


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 10:35:07 AM   
estimer


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O wow I though I was on the last thread I hope this post isn't pointless now. Either way I need to read not post fin internet things.

(in reply to estimer)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 10:42:03 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline
None of which changes the fact that there is no privacy on the internet.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
<SNIP> This is the same court that thinks that wiretapping and recording the entire fucking internet doesn't violate the fourth amendment. I think we lost the government as a whole when we lost the supreme court.


Record the whole internet? You mean look at what people put up on the internet and copy anything you want? Sort of like *you* do everytime you log on? But the Supreme Court should rule that no one else can do it but you?

There is no rational jurist in the world that would rule that if people choose to do something out in the middle of the largest public audience in the world, that the government is supposed to pretend they can't see them.

the "whole internet" would also include what most people consider private email, voip communications, even private between friends only FB communications.. of course the govt has special software to analyze all that and try to spot people that they feel they should watch and investigate.. btw, the govt referred to OWS activists as "domestic terrorists".. you can bet the govt was recording and watching every time they farted.. including everything they said in both public & private internet communications.. The govt has turned your right to free speech into "terrorism".. gotta love how the US govt can twist things like that..

"In certain documents, divisions of the FBI refer to the Occupy Wall Street protests as a "criminal activity" or even "domestic terrorism.""
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/23/fbi-occupy-wall-street_n_2355883.html



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 10:46:31 AM   
estimer


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/1/2013
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Ha Define Privacy. Really use the constitution and try to define what right to privacy is. Thats why google gave up. The only privacy is what you don't say around other (internet or in the world)

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 10:47:21 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
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Status: offline
Nice backpedal. Your ignorance is about the law, and the teenybopper computer braggadocio is irrelevant.

What you post on a forum like CM is open to millions of viewers (your lies notwithstanding), and you are whining that the Supreme Court doesn't somehow ban the police from reading your posts along with everyone else.

And while you bemoan your comic book fantasy's failure to alter real life, there are serious civil rights and privacy violations piling up every day... with no comment from you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Record the whole internet? You mean look at what people put up on the internet and copy anything you want? Sort of like *you* do everytime you log on? But the Supreme Court should rule that no one else can do it but you?

There is no rational jurist in the world that would rule that if people choose to do something out in the middle of the largest public audience in the world, that the government is supposed to pretend they can't see them.

I'm assuming you are completely unschooled in both technology and data security. No, I cannot do what the government does. Neither can you. For instance, you cannot read all my gmail (or any other email) going back over the last decade. The government can. Were you or I try try that we'd be prosecuted for hacking.

So yes, lots and lots of rational jurists would want to know why, exactly, the government can intrude on password protected personal information (such as gmail) without any sort of warrant. They've basically wire-tapped the internet.




_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 10:51:06 AM   
estimer


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/1/2013
Status: offline
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE>.

Down the rabbit hole we go.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 10:59:29 AM   
estimer


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/1/2013
Status: offline
Both of you stop bitching and start reading. Right to privacy cases.
Meyer v Nebraska (1923)
Griswold v Connecticut (1965)
Stanley v Georgia (1969)
Ravin v State (1975)
Kelley v Johnson (1976)
Moore v East Cleveland (1977)
Cruzan v. Missouri Dep't. of Health (1990)
Lawrence v Texas (2003)

(in reply to estimer)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 1:00:09 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Nice backpedal. Your ignorance is about the law, and the teenybopper computer braggadocio is irrelevant.

What you post on a forum like CM is open to millions of viewers (your lies notwithstanding), and you are whining that the Supreme Court doesn't somehow ban the police from reading your posts along with everyone else.

And while you bemoan your comic book fantasy's failure to alter real life, there are serious civil rights and privacy violations piling up every day... with no comment from you.




privacy within the public domain comes under what in the constitution? Its in there.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 1:12:40 PM   
estimer


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Joined: 3/1/2013
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No man it really does not. Go find it don't just say it. If you can find it let me know. You and the rest of the world will be amazed. I can't remember the case but there is one where if you are talking in a room and say somthing incriminating and someone in the other room hears you and reports you. You cannot plead the violation of privacy defense.

When you try to break down right to privacy it gets all sorts of complicated. For instance you have a right to Dr patient confidentiality right.? But everything you tell your doctor gets put into a file or onto a chart. A random nurse comes in to check your chart. Well she is just seeing if she can move you or not and is not working directly on you. She really has no right to look at your chart. she should go ask the doctor. but that is what happends.

What about just health insurance. Everything you tell the dr goes to the insurance company so they can adjust how they pay or drop you.

Don't assume just because there is a right to privacy written in the constitution that it is cut and dry. There was no internet when it the constitution was created. We were not even able to talk to our neighbor much less play a damned video game with someone on the other side of the world.

You need to spend some time in books before you post on these treads.
I say this as a fellow American not a troll trying to piss you off.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/2/2013 7:36:42 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
it is cut and dry.
big mistake to tell me to read LOL
You also have the right to contract away your rights.
Now where you gonna go? ;)

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to estimer)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/3/2013 10:10:58 AM   
estimer


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/1/2013
Status: offline
Right to privacy has been my nemesis. It really can't truly protected especially today. It is to hard to define. We have an expectation but what is it.challenge u all to try to define it soundly

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Obamas' PreCrime-Constitutional-Indefinte-Detention - 3/3/2013 10:20:22 AM   
estimer


Posts: 76
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Yes we can vote in unconstitutional things. However we must challenge them. And in happy happy dream world they would be seen as unconstitutional and thus removed.

(in reply to estimer)
Profile   Post #: 80
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