Can someone please explain this... (Full Version)

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subrob1967 -> Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 2:37:28 PM)

“If you want to buy a gun — whether it’s from a licensed dealer or a private seller — you should at least have to show you are not a felon or somebody legally prohibited from buying one. We should get tougher on people who buy guns with the express purpose of turning around and selling them to criminals. And we should severely punish anybody who helps them do this.”

Barack H Obama January 2013


President Obama Grants Pardons

WASHINGTON – Today President Barack Obama granted pardons to the following seventeen individuals:

Larry Wayne Thornton – Forsyth, Georgia.
Offense: Possession of an unregistered firearm, 26 U.S.C. §§ 5861(d), 5871; possession of
a firearm without a serial number, 26 U.S.C. §§ 5861(i), 5871.

Sentence: Four years probation.
Link

Left leaning link

Even more left than the last, link



Fellow -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 2:57:06 PM)

What is the main purpose of Obama started hysteria against private gun ownership. Obviously, no tyrannical government wants armed private citizens. However, in Obama case, this is not the main reason. He understands well the anti gun policies can not succeed under current circumstances. His goal is to create confusion inside America, fighting sides about overblown side issues, directing attention away from the main issues (illegal wars, robber barons, economic collapse). His coming immigration reform activity serves the same purpose.
How can possession of firearm be illegal in the US? It is a granted right by the Constitution.



TheHeretic -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 2:58:12 PM)

Ok. I started from the bottom link up (we rate HuffnPoo differently) and I'm not seeing the same problem you seem to be noting. The pardons look to me like nothing more than a small collection of lucky bastards, whose letters to President were pulled from a hat (after a careful vetting of which letters went in to begin with, if the administration was smart about it.)



epiphiny43 -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 3:05:32 PM)

Sorry that strawman won't hunt. Obama and numerous other administration figures have gone to pains to point out they AREN'T advocating making private gun ownership illegal. You watch anything besides far right fantasy sites? They are wanting to ban "Assault rifles" (whatever the current definition on that fast moving target is) and high capacity magazines. Even the VP says, "Get a shotgun" for personal protection. If you dislike Obama's agenda, try to actually mention it now and then?
The administration gun policies now are a Very direct response to much of his power base and a quite significant proportion of the American public. As well as large media attention. Not my idea of a well-considered response, to make illegal guns that didn't even get inside the school for that last shooting, but who cares about details?



subrob1967 -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 3:47:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

Sorry that strawman won't hunt. Obama and numerous other administration figures have gone to pains to point out they AREN'T advocating making private gun ownership illegal. You watch anything besides far right fantasy sites? They are wanting to ban "Assault rifles" (whatever the current definition on that fast moving target is) and high capacity magazines. Even the VP says, "Get a shotgun" for personal protection. If you dislike Obama's agenda, try to actually mention it now and then?
The administration gun policies now are a Very direct response to much of his power base and a quite significant proportion of the American public. As well as large media attention. Not my idea of a well-considered response, to make illegal guns that didn't even get inside the school for that last shooting, but who cares about details?


Bullshit... Significant number of Americans my ass... 316 Million citizens, 290 Million guns sold. More guns sold in the last 5 years than anytime previously... Yeah, I'm the crazy one reading lunatic sources.[8|]

Please tell me where it's legal ANYWHERE in the US to own a pistol that has no serial number...



Politesub53 -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 4:27:52 PM)

Wait.....A man who was sentanced to probation in 1974 recieves a pardon 39 years later. Whats Obama thinking of ??

Talking of 1974, I recall someone else getting a pre-emptive pardon that year as well...... Gee, I wonder who that was.



Nosathro -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 5:25:30 PM)

It is hard to tell, no dates on any of them. It appears most were on probation, one was on home arrest, one 54 days confinement. Really low on the level of punishment.
Nor does there appear to be a history of crime. These pardon on really minor considering other Presidental Pardon. For example then President Clintion pardon his brother for a cocaine possession, Henry Cisneros, his Secretary of Housing and Urban Development convicted of lying to the FBI, John Deutch Director of the CIA, just to name a few.



Nosathro -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 5:28:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Wait.....A man who was sentanced to probation in 1974 recieves a pardon 39 years later. Whats Obama thinking of ??

Talking of 1974, I recall someone else getting a pre-emptive pardon that year as well...... Gee, I wonder who that was.


In California there is a law that you can request the judge in you trial to change the findings to not guilty, if after 5 years from the first trial you have not been found guilty of any other crime, the crime you were convicted of did not include a charge of violence, such as assault, or a drug charge.



Owner59 -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 7:22:43 PM)


Can you explain this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI6FnSytSYg


Wayne Lapierre on Mandatory Background Checks in 1999:


"We Think It's Reasonable To Provide Mandatory Instant Criminal Background Checks For Every Sale At Every Gun Show, No Loopholes Anywhere For Anyone."


Now he says .....no.....[8|]



Real0ne -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 7:44:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
eading lunatic sources.[8|]

Please tell me where it's legal ANYWHERE in the US to own a pistol that has no serial number...




a machinist who makes his own?

any decent machinist can make a gun



subrob1967 -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/2/2013 8:52:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
eading lunatic sources.[8|]

Please tell me where it's legal ANYWHERE in the US to own a pistol that has no serial number...



a machinist who makes his own?

any decent machinist can make a gun


Not legal to own a firearm with damaged or destroyed serial numbers. Doesn't matter if you make it yourself or not.



SadistDave -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/3/2013 2:23:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Please tell me where it's legal ANYWHERE in the US to own a pistol that has no serial number...



Actually... it is legal. Citizens still have the right to make their own firearms as long as they do not attempt to sell them. Ownership of home made weapons still follow the same restrictions for conceal/carry, storage, etc. though.

You can make, own, possess, and use a zip gun according to federal law. Most home made guns are actually made by purchasing pre-serial number part blanks though. The feds only track the serial number on the reciever of a weapon. Basically you buy a reciever blank (for an AR-15 for example) with no serial number, buy a tool and die kit specific to that reciever, cut the openings and drill the holes and assemble the rest of the weapon with parts that aren't tracked.

Perfectly legal according to federal law.

-SD-



Kirata -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/3/2013 6:39:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Can you explain this?

Wayne Lapierre on Mandatory Background Checks in 1999:

"We Think It's Reasonable To Provide Mandatory Instant Criminal Background Checks For Every Sale At Every Gun Show, No Loopholes Anywhere For Anyone."

Now he says .....no

Not knowing his mind, I can't of course. But there are two reasons why I'm against them, so maybe he's given the matter more thought.

Firstly, of course, background checks have little to no effect on the ability of criminals or would-be criminals to obtain guns. They're just a waste of money on a useless feel-good measure. That in itself doesn't bother me so much. Nothing new there. But secondly, and more seriously, unless the records are destroyed a background check system provides the government with a list of who owns guns, what type, and how many. That amounts to a species of de facto gun registration.

There was a time when I would have trusted the government to destroy the records, but I don't anymore, and I'm not sure it would matter if they did, because it's clear from what we now know about the signal gathering capabilities of our intelligence agencies (and their record of high moral excellence) that there is no way to assure the system's traffic wouldn't be stored in case it might be "needed" some day.

K.



MrRodgers -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/3/2013 6:47:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

What is the main purpose of Obama started hysteria against private gun ownership. Obviously, no tyrannical government wants armed private citizens. However, in Obama case, this is not the main reason. He understands well the anti gun policies can not succeed under current circumstances. His goal is to create confusion inside America, fighting sides about overblown side issues, directing attention away from the main issues (illegal wars, robber barons, economic collapse). His coming immigration reform activity serves the same purpose.
How can possession of firearm be illegal in the US? It is a granted right by the Constitution.

You are correct and it is long since time that we pass a 'new' 2nd amendment. Forget laws that can be struck down. We The People have the power to tell the supreme court what we want and in plain English.



tazzygirl -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/3/2013 7:17:49 AM)

That often makes me pause.

quote:

Obviously, no tyrannical government wants armed private citizens.


Our citizens want to be armed in case our government wants to become "tyrannical" and take over.

Our citizens dont want to cut the budget to a government entity that ensures that entity will forever be armed better than our citizens.

Things that make me go........ hmmmmmmm



JeffBC -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/3/2013 7:27:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
You are correct and it is long since time that we pass a 'new' 2nd amendment. Forget laws that can be struck down. We The People have the power to tell the supreme court what we want and in plain English.

Seriously? I'm kind of curious since I understand this is just empty posturing on your part. But imagine for a moment that you actually DID intend to go to all the effort required to get an amendment passed. Is this really the amendment you'd choose?



JeffBC -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/3/2013 7:29:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Our citizens want to be armed in case our government wants to become "tyrannical" and take over.
Our citizens dont want to cut the budget to a government entity that ensures that entity will forever be armed better than our citizens.

Heh... but now you're expecting these positions to actually make sense tazzy. I certainly AM worried about the US government. In point of fact I'm not worried that it might become tyrannical. I think it already has. And yes, you can damned well bet I'd love to cut funding for the military down to near zero for exactly that reason.



Kirata -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/3/2013 7:32:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'm not worried that it might become tyrannical. I think it already has. And yes, you can damned well bet I'd love to cut funding for the military down to near zero for exactly that reason.

I'd start with DHS and Congress' salaries.

K.



Nosathro -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/3/2013 8:26:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

You are correct and it is long since time that we pass a 'new' 2nd amendment. Forget laws that can be struck down. We The People have the power to tell the supreme court what we want and in plain English.



Under our Constitution the Supreme court has the authority to rule if a law is constitution. Creating a new amendment would be time consuming, an example would be the Equal Rights Amendment, it was writen by Alice Paul in 1923, introduced in Congress in 1972, it did not make it deadline for States to approve on June 30, 1982, it failed. Sorry but the People do not have the power to tell the Supreme Court what to do. A member of the Supreme Court can be impeached, the last one, Samuel Chase, was impeached in 1805 and he was acquitted.




Nosathro -> RE: Can someone please explain this... (3/3/2013 8:30:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Please tell me where it's legal ANYWHERE in the US to own a pistol that has no serial number...



Actually... it is legal. Citizens still have the right to make their own firearms as long as they do not attempt to sell them. Ownership of home made weapons still follow the same restrictions for conceal/carry, storage, etc. though.

You can make, own, possess, and use a zip gun according to federal law. Most home made guns are actually made by purchasing pre-serial number part blanks though. The feds only track the serial number on the reciever of a weapon. Basically you buy a reciever blank (for an AR-15 for example) with no serial number, buy a tool and die kit specific to that reciever, cut the openings and drill the holes and assemble the rest of the weapon with parts that aren't tracked.

Perfectly legal according to federal law.

-SD-



Really?

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2013/01/atf-seized-homemade-firearms-from-waxahatchie-man.html/



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