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RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 7:01:03 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
The law as written makes her liable for a bad outcome if she tried to help. But not if she didn't. Fucked up, but that's the law.

well,.. to me it makes a huge difference if there was a dnr for the patient.. my mother was a nurse and she made it clear to us kids that she did not want to be kept alive on machines, etc.. she had a living will and she told us also.. That was actually her worst fear..

So I personally would respect what that persons wishes were.. even tho its hard to not help, if that was the persons wish to die the way they want to, I would not do anything to violate that..

I expect the Good Samaratin law was more about things like car accidents and such, not so much about trying to keep a person in the last days of their life in a nursing home lasting a few more hours or days..

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RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 7:38:14 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm not finding the reference to the DNR that was referenced earlier in the day.

On the 911 thing, wouldn't they still have to call, even if resuscitation wasn't the issue? The staff would still have to do that even if the resident was already dead because she still has to be proclaimed dead by a MD or the County Coroner.


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RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 8:37:19 PM   
theRose4U


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I didn't hear that about the family.

They must be the ultimate "cool" Californians...

Well sure & conveniently before the first of the month so they avoid rent

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 8:47:44 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		LP, I don't know if they'd have to call 911; when someone died in hospice care here in Tx, they didn't, they would call the Justice of the Peace directly, I believe.

Rose, I hope thats not true, but it happens

< Message edited by Level -- 3/4/2013 8:48:56 PM >

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RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 8:51:27 PM   
tj4444


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RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 8:52:42 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm not finding the reference to the DNR that was referenced earlier in the day.

On the 911 thing, wouldn't they still have to call, even if resuscitation wasn't the issue? The staff would still have to do that even if the resident was already dead because she still has to be proclaimed dead by a MD or the County Coroner.


see what I mean about news stories saying different things? It confuses readers and they are left not knowing what the real story is..

I am not sure how death is handled here in the US, when my mother died, I believe it was the coroner that came to the house (cuz she was already dead when my brother found her), but that was in Canada..

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 8:54:59 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I don't believe that a DNR was the reason this nurse refused to help. If a patient were to drop over in the cafeteria with a DNR in place, do they just leave her there ? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't.

They don't leave her where she fell but if they attempt any life saving procedures they're committing assault.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 8:56:26 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
see what I mean about news stories saying different things? It confuses readers and they are left not knowing what the real story is..

I am not sure how death is handled here in the US, when my mother died, I believe it was the coroner that came to the house (cuz she was already dead when my brother found her), but that was in Canada..
Yes and depending on what time of day they are doing the report, it changes within a few hours because they don't confirm things before broadcasting. It's starting to tick Me off a bit because I used to think CNN was reliable.



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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 9:02:46 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

LP, I don't know if they'd have to call 911; when someone died in hospice care here in Tx, they didn't, they would call the Justice of the Peace directly, I believe.

Rose, I hope thats not true, but it happens
The definition of the facility has something to do with it, too, I think. Hospice is generally quality of life until illness takes over. Senior homes can be different, and assisted living something else. There's various funky definitions that distinguish all of this different stuff. Some of which can be different designations just by one sentence in licensing.

Bureaucracy, bureaucracy, bureaucracy.



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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 9:02:57 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		Re: DNR on the elderly.
One thing you must realize is that CPR on someone who is elderly WILL break ribs.

Real CPR isn't this stuff you see on TV. Even someone who is relatively young frequently suffers rib and cartilage injuries from CPR. When someone is elderly, you can hear them breaking.

Anyone who puts their elderly relatives into a health care facility should be forced to watch it once before they give rescussitation orders.

Apparently, this particular facility did not allow their staff to do CPR.

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RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 9:03:45 PM   
theRose4U


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

LP, I don't know if they'd have to call 911; when someone died in hospice care here in Tx, they didn't, they would call the Justice of the Peace directly, I believe.

Rose, I hope thats not true, but it happens

Friend died in hospice here in CO setting off a chain reaction, 4 same time as him & 12 in 2 buildings before 24hr day was up!! Still remember one nurse he hated & on days she worked he was catatonic only to remarkably recover 12 hours after she left. Hospice seemed alarmed by this "angel of death" observation & when challenged them to put together a chart of nurses on duty 24 hours before the last 2 months deaths, they had a staffing shake up & she no longer worked there.

Coroner has "the van guy" (like you see on CSI, then the "medical care guy" where dead are under doctors care for known reasons & can go straight to funeral home.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 9:06:36 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
see what I mean about news stories saying different things? It confuses readers and they are left not knowing what the real story is..

I am not sure how death is handled here in the US, when my mother died, I believe it was the coroner that came to the house (cuz she was already dead when my brother found her), but that was in Canada..
Yes and depending on what time of day they are doing the report, it changes within a few hours because they don't confirm things before broadcasting. It's starting to tick Me off a bit because I used to think CNN was reliable.



I have started ignoring news stories, especially the "breaking news" ones and the shock value ones.. the more sensational a story, imo, the more its been fictionalized or exagerated..

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RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 9:21:35 PM   
theRose4U


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quote:


I have started ignoring news stories, especially the "breaking news" ones and the shock value ones.. the more sensational a story, imo, the more its been fictionalized or exagerated..

This is EXACTLY why I turned off cable & don't watch news

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/4/2013 9:35:11 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

I think there is a sad consequence of our ability to sustain life. All too often, someone will come to the end of their life in some quick or peaceful sort of way, only to be yanked back, and spend the rest of their existence shuttling between hospital and care (storage) facility, and never spend another night in their own home.



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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/5/2013 7:54:30 AM   
Nosathro


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Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		There is also something to consider, in many medical facilities such as this place, many have a directive on file, it can state that if something were to happen the person does not want any intervention. It may seem odd but I have seen such directives. My mother had one just as I said, I have a CPR card but I could do nothing as her wishes were honored, all I could was call 911 and follow the her to the ER where I informed them of her wishes, she died.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/5/2013 7:58:12 AM   
TheLilSquaw


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From: Middle River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha

the news cast that i watched and several articles said that there wasn't a DNR. Just that the facility doesn't allow them to perform CPR. Level was right in saying that their policy is to call 911 and wait for help. i'm still floored that as a nurse she decided to "follow protocol" and not at least attempt to help her or allow someone not employed by the facility to help her



This is what I heard in news reports as well.
That it was the facilities policy NOT to preform CPR and things of that nature but to simply call 911.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/5/2013 8:29:19 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		My living will, my husbands living will, my mothers, both my siblings, my aunt and cousin, AND my godmothers, all have or want DNR orders, in case of terminal sickness or lengthycoma.
Apart from my husband, all have spent time nursing and or elderly nursing facilites.
When my Father died, he had a DNR , he demanded it most of his life. we respected his wishes, life support was turned off and he was held as he died.
Personally Ive heard, "please just let me die" once too often with a terminal patient to not respect their wishes.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/5/2013 8:54:42 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		The difference here. This woman was not terminal and not on life support.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/5/2013 9:00:54 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Perhaps this is already posted but does anyone know if perhaps the situation was covered under a living will? Often in situations as this nurses and doctors have directives stating the patients wishes when it comes to resuscitation.

If I were that age I would not want to be resuscitated and perhaps that was the wishes of the patient…or the policy of the establishment agreed to when residence is taken.

Does anyone know…or is it just fun to assume the nurse was a witch.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/5/2013 9:02:19 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: 911 Call in California - 3/5/2013 9:02:07 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		oh wow thank you for pointing that out to me, Gasp...people have DNRs for all kinds of reasons ESPECIALLY in a "senior living facility".
They just happen to be mine...see how that works?

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Profile   Post #: 40
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