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Defensive - 3/8/2013 7:52:32 AM   
hollycheer91


Posts: 41
Status: offline 		Has anyone else had problems with being to defensive?

I have found I get defensive about small stupid things and not on things I maybe should. Have any other subs found good techniques to work on their defensiveness with their dom/masters?
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RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 8:55:20 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Over the years, I found that letting go of the little things was much harder than letting go of the big things. It took time and trust for me to relax and let go.

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to hollycheer91)
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RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 9:27:39 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		I know I'll become defensive when a situation feels adversarial, if i feel like someone's pitting me against someone else, or if i feel like they're being hypocritical. With little things, sometimes they're so difficult because they're often day-to-day things you're accustomed to, or things you have to do/see/whatever every day. A big crisis isn't a constant thing, but sometimes small things can be daily.

In talking about things that might cause defensiveness, try to take away accusatory language, take out the "you vs them" element. That usually helps a lot. If there's another person involved, it's helpful to avoid direct comparisons, too, but to instead talk specifically about an incident or a behavior and ways to improve it.

And sometimes, it's good to just take a moment and examine your own thoughts. Sometimes our thoughts and feelings are't particularly accurate. Is it really something about what the other person is doing or saying that's causing the defensiveness, or is it a perception of your own?

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 9:31:01 AM   
AzSubBound2Love


Posts: 7
Joined: 3/6/2011
Status: offline 		Agreeing with Oside, I let go of petty stuff. If it really bothers you, talk about whatever it is in a calm manner, even if that means cooling off before approaching the subject. There isn't much my Owners say or do that put me on the defensive side, but when I am I have to ask myself why it is doing that in the first place.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 10:12:41 AM   
slavegirlyj


Posts: 5
Joined: 3/7/2013
Status: offline 		I have had issues with it in the past. I had to figure out why I was being defensive. I found that most of the time it was due to lack of trust in giving up the control of what it was. Once I figured that out, it was easier to let it go. Of course, when it was because I knew I was right, I had to learn to let Master make the mistake and learn for himself.

_____________________________

~j~
I am who I am, and I'm not ashamed of it, not one bit.

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RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 10:29:33 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hollycheer91
I have found I get defensive about small stupid things and not on things I maybe should. Have any other subs found good techniques to work on their defensiveness with their dom/masters?

Carol never found an answer to this when we were vanilla. After I took the position of authority it was one of the first things I fixed. In her case she did it wanting to play "the pity card". She was reeling from an imaginary whack on the nose and so going all woe-is-me on me to gain sympathy.

I told her what was going on and told her to cut it out. For starters, if I was actually displeased with her I'd say that. Secondly, I didn't appreciate her making mountains out of molehills. It did nothing but complicate my job. Thirdly, I didn't appreciate the attempt at manipulation. Finally, if I was going to be the master that meant I was going to be making adjustments to her. If she viewed every single adjustment as a personal attack then the whole thing was doomed from the outset and I'd rather not play a losing game.

From your other thread you do not actually have a dominant/master yet -- you have a guy you've chatted with a bit online -- a little bit. But when you do actually submit to someone the same reasoning should apply. If it's a minor course correction you need to see it as that. It's him doing his job not him attacking you or even being displeased with you. If he IS actually substantially displeased then he ought to be communicating that to you. Doms who let subs guess aren't dominant in my book.


< Message edited by JeffBC -- 3/8/2013 10:30:00 AM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to hollycheer91)
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RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 10:40:39 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline 		holly,

I don't get defensive over little things.

I learned to let most things roll years ago, I do get defensive over my son though. It nearly ended my relationship with my primary a while back. For me we both had to step back, take a breath and I to look at WHY I got defensive. I also had to truly hear what he had said to me and admit it was true and he was coming from a place of love. Then together we discussed that and moved forward with that. If I hadn't done that self assessment and admitted to myself and him why I got defensive. Things would be very different for us and between us.




_____________________________

LilSquaw
Lifestyle & ProSwitch
Fetish Model, Producer, and Website Owner

http://www.clips4sale.com/69201
http://www.kinkbomb.com/studio/Sadistic_Babygirl_

(in reply to hollycheer91)
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RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 11:32:27 AM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		~FRin it~

Best piece of advice I can offer is to do some self-reflection on the situations that come up that trigger the defensiveness. For me, I notice that my defensiveness is usually triggered when a given situation hits way too close to home and maybe brings up a painful situation from the past that shares similar feelings. Look inward when the defensiveness comes on. Ask yourself your motivations behind why you are feeling the way you feel.

(in reply to TheLilSquaw)
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RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 12:48:18 PM   
HisPet21


Posts: 395
Status: offline
quote:

Doms who let subs guess aren't dominant in my book.


I think I like this quote. :)

To the OP: I find that, when I am being defensive, I have a tendency to try and hide that fact. I don't want to admit that I am feeling defensive, because that implies (usually correctly) that I am also feeling squishy and vulnerable. The result is that I can act like a cornered cat, puffing myself up to look all big and impressive, when I really am just scared. And then the people trying to help make or talk to me get scratched up, and sometimes don't even know why.

I've found it helps, with people I love and trust (like my long term bf) to just cut out the mental speech filter and say what I feel. Usually saying something as simple as "I am scared" or "I am very angry at you" is enough to diffuse the defensive attitude. Sometimes, in the isolation of our own minds (especially when our minds are being irrational, like they sometimes are) it's easy to justify absurdities, because there is no one in our thoughts to judge us but, well, us. Once you say your feelings out loud to someone you respect, you quickly can see if your defensiveness is justified or not. Usually, mine is not. The bf and I are on the same team, and if I am upset, there is usually a misunderstanding. Out right malevolence is nonexistent.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 2:11:13 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If you find yourself someone with whom you agree about most things, there won't be as many things where this will be an issue.

More importantly, you shouldn't be changing yourself to what random guy on the internet says. He isn't your dom. Hell he isn't even a fuck buddy, and he's a long time away from being a master. The odds are he never will be. This is something that happens after you've committed and have earned trust in each other. Which only happens when you spend time together, a lot of time.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to HisPet21)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 3:12:20 PM   
hollycheer91


Posts: 41
Status: offline 		I appreciate everyones advice and opinions, they have been super helpful! And have made me look at things differently. I am attempting to build trust and understand with the guy and am taking it slow and seeing where it goes. He is taking many things I say as me being defensive and I don't realize it until after I respond. So hopefully its something I can work on myself, not just for this particular person.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 10:34:10 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Yeah, I got rid of him.

Seriously, you have one of three things going on here.

1. You are with someone you are not compatible with and you don't see eye to eye.
2. You are not submissive. You may be a bottom or just into kinky bedroom sex and there's nothing wrong with that.
3. You have anger and trust issues you need to deal with.

ETA: Oh....one way to cure it....become a mom lol. Once I had a kid I learned to pick my battles. I stopped being concerned with the small, petty things that just really didn't matter. I found I was tired of having to get defensive and angry or upset or just in a conflict at every single turn. I learned that not everything is all that important.

Ask yourself. If I don't get my way, does it really matter? Will it kill me? Will it kill someone else? Will it drastically make my life worse? If not...then just let it go.



< Message edited by littlewonder -- 3/8/2013 10:37:09 PM >

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 11:07:27 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		Fast reply

I did suspect that it was Mr Potential Dom who was telling you that you were defensive.

It's always good to look at your own behaviour and see what you could improve. It does seem though that within a month this guy has been quick to tell you all of the things you are doing wrong, and you're trying very hard to change for him.

I know as a sub we try to make ourselves as pleasing as possible to the dominant partner, but this guy sounds like he's sitting behind his computer saying 'you're clingy! You're defensive! Be better!' I wonder if he really means 'you're not acting out the fantasy as I wish'.

Remember you want someone who likes you for you, not just as an empty vessel to act out his desires. Think about it - does the conversation go 'you seem a little bit defensive, is something worrying you? Would you like to talk?' or is it more like 'god you're so defensive all the time, when you're my sub you just need to submit totally'? Because that could be the difference between a caring potential partner who wants to get to know you and someone looking for a fun online plaything who feels inconvenienced when you don't jump right to getting him off.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 11:22:27 PM   
hollycheer91


Posts: 41
Status: offline 		His mentioning of my attitudes (clingy/distant/defensive/ect.) are normally said in a way to make me aware that I am coming off that way. I am not submitting to him right away (I feel that is not only dumb on my part, but also threatens my safety and where I want to be in this lifestyle), and dont plan to until well after we have met. Yes, playing submissively in a sexual manner is fun but not what Im really looking for. I do want this as a lifestyle. However, I am REALLY novice (cleary, since its been made evident that I dont know sh*t), and I hate it! I am trying to figure out where I stand submissively. I know I am a bit of a masochist, I enjoy the punishment side a bit more than I should, and I do enjoy pleasing. But as for the rest I am still working that out. This may sound awful, but I am not just talking to one dom..I am keeping my options open...I just think that they shouldnt just choose me...it needs to go both ways. Because whether this was a d/s relationship or a vanilla relationship...or even just friendship, it takes all involved to make it work, So I want a life-long connection with someone.

I enjoy the forums mostly for the great advice (even though sometimes I dont like it, lol) and it helps me mentally take what I know I like, and figure out my confusion. I am not hiding from anything, especially myself...I do love the sexual side of the lifestyle and that is how I became so involved in it. But now I want to take that a little bit farther and work on complete submission.

We will see what time holds, but as for now, thank you all for the great advice and any more to come :) It is for sure helping me grow and conquor some interior battles :D

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Defensive - 3/8/2013 11:46:20 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Here's a bit of advice. If you would never do it in a "vanilla" relationship, you probably shouldn't do it in a "bdsm" one.

Remember: Neither type of relationship is special or unique and the same standards you had before, you still have. Don't park your brain outside on the doorstep...PLEASE!!!!

For all that's holy, please don't lose it.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to hollycheer91)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Defensive - 3/9/2013 4:43:54 AM   
HisPet21


Posts: 395
Status: offline
quote:

If you would never do it in a "vanilla" relationship, you probably shouldn't do it in a "bdsm" one.


This is one of the best pieces of advice out there, and you should really take it to heart, OP. You seem really intelligent, enthusiastic, and genuine to me. You're also just new to this, and I am glad you're willing to ask questions and gain advice. I was a lot less so when I started out, and I wish I hadn't been. But think really hard about this last little piece of advice LittleWonder gave you. If you were considering a vanilla partner and he, after a month, began to criticize everything you did and demanded that you change it (too clingy, too defensive, too distant), would you stick around?

Because I wouldn't. After a month of dating, two people are usually still getting to know each other (this is particularly true of an online exclusive relationship) and at that point in time, this sort of behavior comes across as overly controlling to me. The fact that you are looking for a D/s relationship doesn't change this. It is possible for a dominant to be "too controlling." You might be compelled to ask, "How? Aren't I looking for someone to control me?" Eh, maybe so. But no decent, polite human being would start to demand that a woman he barely knows change for him, nor would he try to dominate a woman who hasn't yet offered herself to him. You said you were just looking right now, and talking to multiple men. So, it looks like you aren't this guy's submissive and he is trying to force his rules and orders on you anyway. Not cool.

Once you have gotten to know a dominant, trust him to take the wheel and not crash, and agree to a D/s arrangement, he is allowed (IMHO) to point out certain issues you may be having and ask you to work on them. Before then, what gives some guy on the internet, who you haven't even me,t the right to decide how you should act and behave? IDK, but why are you treating this dating relationship differently than you would be a vanilla one? Shouldn't you just be getting to know each other, before establishing a power dynamic? You might want to talk about the kind of arrangement you seek, to make sure you are compatible, but why start submitting to anyone this early on in the game?

IDK, to each his own. Just my perspective.

Oh, and good luck in your search/ welcome to the forums!

HisPet21



(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Defensive - 3/9/2013 4:48:11 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hollycheer91
This may sound awful, but I am not just talking to one dom..I am keeping my options open...I just think that they shouldnt just choose me...it needs to go both ways. Because whether this was a d/s relationship or a vanilla relationship...or even just friendship, it takes all involved to make it work, So I want a life-long connection with someone.


It doesn't sound awful, it sounds sensible. It's only awful if you've made some sort of exclusive commitment to someone and then gone behind their back. I like your view on things going both ways - some clueless internet doms sometimes try to make out that they can sit back and watch the sub jump through hoops in order to prove herself, which I hate to see. Or they insist the sub marks herself 'under consideration' so that she takes herself out of the market while they keep looking for something better. I'm glad to hear you aren't falling for that.

I know it sucks being new to something and not yet knowing where you stand, but you give the impression that you are working hard to find your place and you are questioning what these guys are telling you, so you will get there.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to hollycheer91)
Profile   Post #: 17
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