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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 7:49:50 AM

cordeliasub

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quote:

I have not any major problems, simply because I don't run around discussing my sex life with people.

^^^ This

I remember when Ellen came out on her sit com years ago. It was a move that was applauded, and rightly so. But then all of a sudden every activist group out there acted as if it was her responsibility to be on the front lines 24/7. I remember seeing an interview with her where she said she never intended to become the "face of homosexuality", she just wanted to live her life.

I haven't ever felt judged by non-kinky people, but I have encountered a few kinky people who think I should wave a falg and declare myself a warrior for the "kinky cause." And that to me just makes it more likely that there will be issues.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 21

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 10:20:42 AM

Dyfrynt

Posts: 202
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The hostility or lack thereof about being open about one's BDSM lifestyle is subject to a host of issues. Just to name a few off the top of my head.

Geography for one. A lot of places in the U.S. you may get a weird look and that is about it. Go to the Bible Belt though and you will find yourself ostracized in less time than it takes to read this sentence.

Your job, for another. Quite a number of professions aren't accepting of a BDSM kind of mindset. You would likely lose your livelihood if it came out.

Finally it can depend on how private or public your life is. I'm not just talking about really well known people. I have a small business, for example. My face is very much associated with my business. I'm no big celebrity, or even a small celebrity for that matter. But a whole lot of people do know me. Even though this area has a fair reputation for kinky, it would hurt me if it became common knowledge that I am into BDSM.

(in reply to cordeliasub)

Post #: 22

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 12:32:55 PM

Inghammar

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Joined: 11/25/2012
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Nobody is likely to lose a job over kink, or suffer oppression in the classic sense unless he or she is reckless and careless with work / life balance. I would not even expect or desire some legal protection to allow people to wear collars to work. Most people in a power exchange relationship have relaxed protocols when around some friends and family and have learned to cope.

Although I never personally had this problem - some people growing up with kinks can feel a lot of shame that they are different and wondering 'why do I want this?'. A television can hardly be turned on in which a CSI NCIS SVU CRIMINAL WHATEVER television show reinforces people with kinks as sick people and depraved killers. In a popular book which is sort of a hit with the 'cubicle kink club', a man is cured of his kinks and happily lives out his life with a woman in some watered down but socially acceptable daddydom relationship.

Do people in this community want the same legal protection and social acceptance that same sexed couples are moving towards or does being 'underground' suit them just fine?

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 23

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 2:39:05 PM

RochesterDomme

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Joined: 2/21/2013
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"Lately, it seems to Me, there's a lot of throwing about of a particular straw man. It's this bit about 'oh, we kinky people have always faced hostility from non kinky people' and it's used as some sort of flag that means I'm supposed to get this "us vrs them" kind of mentality going on. "

I find sometimes some of the more uber types seem to enjoy perhaps even encourage the "us kinks vs them". It give them an extra layer of badass. It's like bdsm is this cool club and they don't want any one else joining.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 24

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 2:52:37 PM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Inghammar
Nobody is likely to lose a job over kink, or suffer oppression in the classic sense unless he or she is reckless and careless with work

My friend did. So I know through very reliable information that you can, in fact, lose your job over kink without being reckless or careless. I mean seriously, you'd think that a professional therapist advertising herself on a kink aware professional site would not be a problem, right?

I think that what someone else said is probably correct. Institutionally this oppression is real and non-trivial. At the individual level I find more judgment from kinksters than vanillas.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
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officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Inghammar)

Post #: 25

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 3:12:51 PM

TNDommeK

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We are very private but have never had any issues with our lifestyle. I assume we understand the where and when to be relaxed.

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(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 26

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 6:05:25 PM

TieMeInKnottss

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I would not say hostility BUT, I live in an area that is SO concerned about being "politically correct" that, if you prefer what they consider stereotypical roles YOU are ridiculed. I have said it before...an interracial gay couple who practice Druidism would be more accepted here than a submissive woman or a dominant man. I joke that I would be subject to a Dr Phil intervention, dragged to therapy, shunned for being a "negative influence" on kids... Around here, the only people deeper in the closet than submissive woman are dominant men. Now, a FEMALE Domme would be accepted and approved of...probably asked to do a lecture series at the PTA...

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 27

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 7:26:24 PM

JeffBC

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I gotta admit Knotts. I'm a bit baffled by the reasoning. Are they worried you are going to submit all their daughters into submitting against their will? LOL

By the way, this was a great, great line:

an interracial gay couple who practice Druidism would be more accepted here than a submissive woman or a dominant man

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)

Post #: 28

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 7:33:08 PM

TieMeInKnottss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I gotta admit Knotts. I'm a bit baffled by the reasoning. Are they worried you are going to submit all their daughters into submitting against their will? LOL

By the way, this was a great, great line:

an interracial gay couple who practice Druidism would be more accepted here than a submissive woman or a dominant man

quote:

Post

NO...you are seen as possibly telling girls that they are NOT smarter, stronger, better than the boys because they are girls (the flip side is NEVER permitted to be said that a boy could be smarter, stronger or better than a girl for no other reason than gender)...

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 29

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 8:21:14 PM

theRose4U

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Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UnholyBear

In my local area, there is somewhat of a "us against them" mentality and where I found it quite blatant is between the BDSM and the Bear communities. It is more obvious in the larger areas such as Toronto or Ottawa and there is a huge rift between the two. The sad part is that mentality has slowly made it's way where I am and I see the subtle stirrings and a rift forming here; especially since I am a part of both communities.

What I don't understand is why it has to happen in the first place?

I think its the age old their kink is different from their kink...yeah I know
Bears, leather, bikers & kink communities at least in my lifetime have had very distinct overlaps. Though a bear on a harley will swear to his death to not have anything in common with the pretty lil sub boy on a crotch rocket. I think the uniting over laps are how you attempt to head off drama.
Yeah the 50 shades soccer mom gets tied up different than the old guard bear would do it...BUT they are both kinky. I roll my eyes at some of the local queens when they parade themselves (good lord some of those girls need make up lessons), but I also support their right to do it if it doesn't harm me & floats their boat.
If the fight comes to your door, point out how childish it is to be separating because "we" like our kink different than "them"...shit its still ice cream, no matter what flavor sprinkles the other ones prefer.

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(in reply to UnholyBear)

Post #: 30

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 9:15:29 PM

SomethingCatchy

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'us vs them' Makes me think that people are running their mouths more than they should about their personal lives. In the age of 'everyone should know everything' thanks to twitter and facebook, it's not surprising... but it's also time to grow the fuck up and figure out how to keep your private life private.

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(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 31

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 9:32:56 PM

sexyred1

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Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy

'us vs them' Makes me think that people are running their mouths more than they should about their personal lives. In the age of 'everyone should know everything' thanks to twitter and facebook, it's not surprising... but it's also time to grow the fuck up and figure out how to keep your private life private.

Agreed. However, there are far too many people who lack self confidence and they need the validation of other people. Some people are also attention whores, whether positive or negative.

Others are of the opinion that they should be "authentic" and let it all hang out. They forget that other people have opinions that they may share with them.

Other people are probably suffering guilt over what they do or would like to do; so they see us. vs. them as personification of their paranoia.

In the end, as you said, we are currently in a instant recognition world where privacy should be valued, but it is not that way for everyone.

(in reply to SomethingCatchy)

Post #: 32

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/21/2013 9:41:38 PM

njlauren

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Joined: 10/1/2011
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I think we have to be very, very careful about saying things like "there is no worry about getting fired for being kinky' or that people worried about that are doing so to make themselves feel important or whatever. It all depends on a lot of factors, where you live, what kind of job you have and so forth. Where I work, if people found out I or others were into kink, they might be curious, but they wouldn't care, it is in NYC, it is in tech, with a group for the most part very well educated, open minded people (there might be problems with some of the people, some of the salespeople and such come from backgrounds that might have problems with it, Catholic blue collar backgrounds, kind of conservative)..

In some ways it is very hard to tell, because most kink people are private with it, they don't talk about it, they aren't out there, so it is hard to tell what the real reactions will be. It would be like 40 years ago judging how well an out gay person would be treated, because there were few people that out, so we don't know. That said, I think in many places people wouldn't care, depending on where you live, but there are also a lot of people out there who will judge you. There are a lot of people who might judge a male dom/female sub relationship as abuse, recreating the old patrimony, etc (hell, I have heard that in the kink community, I have heard that from dominant women and from leather dykes more then a bit over the years), you will get feminists who never got out of the 70's calling it abuse. A poor bastard , a grad student at Columbia, went through hell because an ADA charged him with sexual abuse after a girl he had a kink relationship with freaked out, and the DA and the judge ruled that e-mails showing it was consensual was meaningless, that it was abuse, and he was convicted (overturned thankfully on appeal, and the Manhattan DA refused to retry him). The fact that there are places where if you are found out you can be charged with abuse tells a lot....

Ask people at the National coalition for sexual freedom, and they will tell you about what goes on, people losing custody of kids in marital disputes, jobs, even apartments. Keep in mind it was only 10 years ago that the supreme court heaved sodomy laws, that made non standard sex illegal, and 3 of the judges (today it likely would be 4) argued that the state had a vested interest in regulating morality done in private (read Scalia's dissent if you want to get sick). Though not kink, several years ago a poor SOB lost his job because he was a closet cross dresser, outed by a so called friend, and the courts basically told him tough luck......

I think quite honestly most people don't care, and having an antagonistic view of non kink people is silly,but it doesn't mean it is all smooth sailing either, and I think it pays to be cautious because you don't know.

I think there is some irony to the fact that there often is more antagonism between kink people then between them and vanillas, but then again, what else is new? Every human thing has that, from religion to politics to a bowling league *sigh*.

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 33

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/22/2013 1:53:31 AM

absolutchocolat

Posts: 1392
Status: offline

FR

I recently came out to my parents and closest friends as kinky, and they were more curious than anything. Does that mean I am broadcasting that shit at work? Nope. Non-kinksters tend to mind their own business unless you invite them into your bedroom, figuratively speaking. I find a lot of small communities (and I use that term loosely) become insular and believe that "outsiders" don't understand them and are always sitting in judgment of us. Mostly, people don't really give a shit, especially after Fifty Shades of Fuckery came out.

(in reply to njlauren)

Post #: 34

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/22/2013 7:38:05 AM

Moonlightmaddnes

Posts: 958
Joined: 6/4/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

quote:

I have not any major problems, simply because I don't run around discussing my sex life with people.

^^^ This

I am pretty sure people would give me looks and avoid me if I started discussing my sex life with them whether it was vanilla or kink. Aside from comments here and there and occasional jokes with a few of my really good friends I have never heard anyone sit down to discuss their sex lives.

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Post #: 35

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/22/2013 5:30:09 PM

littlewonder

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I've never been fired from a job or lost my friendships or had people stay away from me because of my relationship.

I have however, lost a lot of respect in the eyes of my daughter because she is a feminist and not in the way it is used here....I don't think we're actually allowed to use the word I would like to, here anymore. She feels that I am a disgrace to all women because I believe in a traditional relationship.

I don't think there is the hostility out there that others seem to mention here. I keep looking around and wondering where the hell they are getting that from. Most people really don't give two shits about anyone else's personal life. They're too busy taking care of their own personal lives to care. I think it's just a lot of paranoia about their own personality and sexuality.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 3/22/2013 5:32:13 PM >

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RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/22/2013 5:39:10 PM

sexyred1

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That is true. I just posted on another thread that I am mystified as to where this is coming from and asked who who being chased through their towns with pitchforks.

Because that would be the only way I could understand this perceived hostility.

And of course, if you keep shit to yourself and not discuss it with strangers, your co-workers and your boss, then you will probably not suffer any consequences.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 37

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/22/2013 5:50:06 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

There are probably three threads that have been posted on in the last 24 hours that are really good examples of what I'm talking about.

Poster X makes dumb fuck move.

Poster X realizes it's a dumb fuck move and rather than *just* taking responsibility for such, spits out some crap about they are owed respect or some other flipping thing because 'we all have to stand together'.

No, we don't.

If you happen to be a twatwaffle who is kinky, the kinky part doesn't excuse you for being a twatwaffle and you're not gaining points with Me about how the vanillas are all out to get us and we have to accept your piss poor behavior just because you are kinky.

It's a bullshit argument that people want to use to absolve them of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

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(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 38

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/22/2013 6:00:36 PM

JeffBC

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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
That is true. I just posted on another thread that I am mystified as to where this is coming from and asked who who being chased through their towns with pitchforks.

I dunno but apparently if your kid catches you in shackles CPS is going to come batter down your doors. Honestly that sounds more like DHS and DEA to me than CPS but hey, what do I know. Wait, I do know what I know. If I lived in such an aggressive police state I'd move.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 39

RE: Where is this supposed hostility? - 3/22/2013 6:37:30 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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Jeff, you live in Canada. So I'd say you have nothing to worry about.

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Post #: 40

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