A Tale of Remarkable Courage (Full Version)

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vincentML -> A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 8:09:12 AM)

Some Holocaust deniers would have you believe it was all a hoax. Here was a woman of remarkable courage whose life gives the lie to the deniers.

Irena Sendler
Died 12 May 2008 (aged 98)
Warsaw, Poland

During WWII, Irena, got permission to work in the Warsaw ghetto, as a plumbing/sewer specialist. She had an 'ulterior motive'. A German, she KNEW what the Nazis' plans were for the Jews. Irena smuggled infants out in the bottom of the tool box she carried and she carried in the back of her truck and a burlap sack for larger children. She also had a dog in the back that she trained to bark when the Nazi soldiers let her in and out of the ghetto. The soldiers of course wanted nothing to do with the dog and the barking covered the infants' noises.

During her time of doing this, she managed to smuggle out and save 2500 children/infants. She was caught, and the Nazi's broke both her legs, arms and beat her severely. She was rescued on her way to execution by bribing her Nazi guards.

Irena kept a record of the names of all the kids she smuggled out and kept them in a glass jar, buried under a tree in her back yard. After the war, she tried to locate any parents who may have survived it and to re-unite the families. Most had been gassed. Those children she helped got placed into foster family homes or adopted.

In 1999 high school students in Uniontown, Kansas researched and produced a play about Irena called “Life in a Jar.”

This video shows Irena late in life. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR0WE3hASC4

Here is the Wiki article that tells her story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irena_Sendler

You might also be interested in the movie: The Boy in the Striped Pajamas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDuapYNd6OE

Please share with friends and family.

Please do not feed the troll.




Kirata -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 8:21:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Please do not feed the troll.

Which troll? You're posting a phony email someone sent you.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/historical/a/irena_sendler.htm

If you want to honor her memory, at least get it right.

K.



vincentML -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 8:31:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Please do not feed the troll.

Which troll? You're posting a phony email someone sent you.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/historical/a/irena_sendler.htm

If you want to honor her memory, at least get it right.

K.

Here is a link to Snopes. They confirm the story.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/sendler.asp

Your urban legends source says the story is a mixture of true and false. Please let us know which parts are false. TYVM



TricklessMagic -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 8:38:47 AM)

Yeah as a Jew I'm skipping this one. Holocaust deniers are holocaust deniers even though the Nazis kept records of their acts, the Soviets and Allied Forces found proof of it (none of whom had any love for Jews).



JeffBC -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 8:46:42 AM)

OK, I have to admit I'm not up on the details of the holocaust and the holocaust deniers but I have an obvious question about it.

The last I knew Germany, the country in which all this happened, has wide scale agreement across pretty much all socioeconomic brackets that it DID happen. Am I incorrect in that? Because honestly if pretty much the entire nation in which an event occurred within living memory agrees on something that big then I'm going to be in agreement also.

Any germans here?



Kirata -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 9:20:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Here is a link to Snopes. They confirm the story.

Your urban legends source says the story is a mixture of true and false. Please let us know which parts are false. TYVM

Irena was not working as a "Plumbing/Sewer" specialist. There was no glass "jar" (singular) buried in her "back yard". It was jars (plural) buried in a neighbor's back yard. To say that she was rescued on her way to execution by bribing her Nazi guards is at best unclear. Members of the Zegota bribed one of the Germans to halt the execution. In one version she escaped (1), in another she was set free (2). The children were not taken out in the bottom of a toolbox, except one, which was taken out by a mechanic, not her. She didn't have a dog that she trained to bark. That was an ambulance driver. Etc.

Sources:
   1. Jewish Virtual Library
   2. The Telegraph

I'm sure you can appreciate that a corrupted story is worse than a lie, because a lie is wholly false, but a corrupted story gives people cause to doubt the truth. Ergo, to quote someone whose name you would find familiar, don't feed the trolls.

K.



vincentML -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 10:27:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Here is a link to Snopes. They confirm the story.

Your urban legends source says the story is a mixture of true and false. Please let us know which parts are false. TYVM

Irena was not working as a "Plumbing/Sewer" specialist. There was no glass "jar" (singular) buried in her "back yard". It was jars (plural) buried in a neighbor's back yard. To say that she was rescued on her way to execution by bribing her Nazi guards is at best unclear. Members of the Zegota bribed one of the Germans to halt the execution. In one version she escaped (1), in another she was set free (2). The children were not taken out in the bottom of a toolbox, except one, which was taken out by a mechanic, not her. She didn't have a dog that she trained to bark. That was an ambulance driver. Etc.

Sources:
   1. Jewish Virtual Library
   2. The Telegraph

I'm sure you can appreciate that a corrupted story is worse than a lie, because a lie is wholly false, but a corrupted story gives people cause to doubt the truth. Ergo, to quote someone whose name you would find familiar, don't feed the trolls.

K.


Excellent. Thank you for the corrections. History is always subject to revision, special pleadings, corruption, and lies. So, every bit of research is helpful. Clearly, Irena was a couragous woman and clearly she was brutalized for her activities. [:)]



vincentML -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 10:36:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

OK, I have to admit I'm not up on the details of the holocaust and the holocaust deniers but I have an obvious question about it.

The last I knew Germany, the country in which all this happened, has wide scale agreement across pretty much all socioeconomic brackets that it DID happen. Am I incorrect in that? Because honestly if pretty much the entire nation in which an event occurred within living memory agrees on something that big then I'm going to be in agreement also.

Any germans here?

Try this for starters, Jeff . . . http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial.html

and this: TEHRAN, Iran — Iran's president said Monday he is proud to stoke international outrage with his latest remarks denying the Holocaust as he heads for the United Nations this week — showing he is as defiant as ever while his country comes under greater pressure to curtail its nuclear program.



calamitysandra -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 11:49:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

OK, I have to admit I'm not up on the details of the holocaust and the holocaust deniers but I have an obvious question about it.

The last I knew Germany, the country in which all this happened, has wide scale agreement across pretty much all socioeconomic brackets that it DID happen. Am I incorrect in that? Because honestly if pretty much the entire nation in which an event occurred within living memory agrees on something that big then I'm going to be in agreement also.

Any germans here?



Yes, I am German.

You have got it right.
While you will find some nutcases denying the Holocaust in Germany, as you will almost everywhere, the truth about that horrific time in our history is generally accepted.
The details are taught at various points during the school career of every child, and an effort is made to keep the memory alive.



Powergamz1 -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/20/2013 5:51:28 PM)

What I remember from living in Germany a few decades ago, was the notion that the Holocaust happened, it was horrible, and no one from our village/family/business knew anything about it, Gott sie dank. Much like some Americans today about the racism of the 50/60s.

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

OK, I have to admit I'm not up on the details of the holocaust and the holocaust deniers but I have an obvious question about it.

The last I knew Germany, the country in which all this happened, has wide scale agreement across pretty much all socioeconomic brackets that it DID happen. Am I incorrect in that? Because honestly if pretty much the entire nation in which an event occurred within living memory agrees on something that big then I'm going to be in agreement also.

Any germans here?



Yes, I am German.

You have got it right.
While you will find some nutcases denying the Holocaust in Germany, as you will almost everywhere, the truth about that horrific time in our history is generally accepted.
The details are taught at various points during the school career of every child, and an effort is made to keep the memory alive.




vincentML -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/21/2013 5:49:53 AM)

quote:

What I remember from living in Germany a few decades ago, was the notion that the Holocaust happened, it was horrible, and no one from our village/family/business knew anything about it, Gott sie dank. Much like some Americans today about the racism of the 50/60s.

Kudos! A very interesting parallel. There is room to debate the equivalency of the events but you may be spot on regarding the denial and forgetfulness. Wasn't there also a 'blame the victim' mentality in both instances?



LafayetteLady -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/21/2013 11:56:47 AM)

At the time, the "blame the victim" mentality may have applied to the Holocaust, but today in Germany, I found that to certainly not be the case.



vincentML -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/21/2013 12:32:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

At the time, the "blame the victim" mentality may have applied to the Holocaust, but today in Germany, I found that to certainly not be the case.

Thank you. I did mean "at the time." Sorry I didn't make that clear.



JeffBC -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/21/2013 2:10:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
Yes, I am German.

Thanks. I always like getting my information right from the source ... or as close to that as possible.

We live in an era where you obviously cannot trust much of anyone. So in a sense I understand holocaust deniers. I suppose this is what happens when "the powers that be" prove themselves to be liars.

But for me, if someone can convince pretty much an entire nation that they slaughtered 6 million people in cold-blooded murder that is either the greatest con of all time or it's true. In the US and most countries of know of the lies go in the other direction... the whole "motherhood and applie pie" gig with the US.



vincentML -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/22/2013 10:10:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
Yes, I am German.

Thanks. I always like getting my information right from the source ... or as close to that as possible.

We live in an era where you obviously cannot trust much of anyone. So in a sense I understand holocaust deniers. I suppose this is what happens when "the powers that be" prove themselves to be liars.

But for me, if someone can convince pretty much an entire nation that they slaughtered 6 million people in cold-blooded murder that is either the greatest con of all time or it's true. In the US and most countries of know of the lies go in the other direction... the whole "motherhood and applie pie" gig with the US.

May I suggest Eichmann in Jersulam by Hanna Arendt for details on how the "final solution" was carried out. The book is a report on the Eichmann trial.



eulero83 -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/22/2013 11:42:18 AM)

JeffBC I'm not german but I'm italian and as you should know also my country shares the responsibility of holocaust, racial laws were approved and later jewish people where captured tu be sent in germany. Here there is a total agreement across pretty all socioeconomic brackets that it did happen, also political parties that descent from the fascist party do not deny anything of it and blame who had responsibility.
I must add there are many proves of what happened and the most of them comes from the nazist as they had filed and stored every kind of information about what they where doing.



Fightdirecto -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/22/2013 1:06:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
What I remember from living in Germany a few decades ago, was the notion that the Holocaust happened, it was horrible, and no one from our village/family/business knew anything about it, Gott sie dank. Much like some Americans today about the racism of the 50/60s.

When I lived in Germany in the 1970's, every German man I met of the appropriate age to have fought in WWII told me they fought exclusively on the Russian front - and not one of them admitted participatiing in the invasions and subsequent occupations of France, Beligium, Demark, Norway or the Netherlands or fighting against the British or the Americans in Europe, North Africa, Italy or Sicily.

Not one.



FunCouple5280 -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/22/2013 1:16:07 PM)

Would you just prance around happily and admit you were a part of any of that? That is too much to ask. Hell you didn't even have to ask. why ask? you just knew what they did. It is like asking the kid with crumbs all over their shirt whether they stole a cookie...



Owner59 -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/22/2013 1:35:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Here is a link to Snopes. They confirm the story.

Your urban legends source says the story is a mixture of true and false. Please let us know which parts are false. TYVM

Irena was not working as a "Plumbing/Sewer" specialist. There was no glass "jar" (singular) buried in her "back yard". It was jars (plural) buried in a neighbor's back yard. To say that she was rescued on her way to execution by bribing her Nazi guards is at best unclear. Members of the Zegota bribed one of the Germans to halt the execution. In one version she escaped (1), in another she was set free (2). The children were not taken out in the bottom of a toolbox, except one, which was taken out by a mechanic, not her. She didn't have a dog that she trained to bark. That was an ambulance driver. Etc.

Sources:
   1. Jewish Virtual Library
   2. The Telegraph

I'm sure you can appreciate that a corrupted story is worse than a lie, because a lie is wholly false, but a corrupted story gives people cause to doubt the truth. Ergo, to quote someone whose name you would find familiar, don't feed the trolls.

K.


Excellent. Thank you for the corrections. History is always subject to revision, special pleadings, corruption, and lies. So, every bit of research is helpful. Clearly, Irena was a couragous woman and clearly she was brutalized for her activities. [:)]




This story`s large circulation and the subsequent inaccuracies, are mostly because it`s become an NRA "the nazis confiscated guns so we can`t have gun rules cuz that`ll lead to nazism' fake meme that`s been making the social media rounds.


Nice save, K.[8|]


[:D]



Owner59 -> RE: A Tale of Remarkable Courage (3/22/2013 1:53:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Would you just prance around happily and admit you were a part of any of that? That is too much to ask. Hell you didn't even have to ask. why ask? you just knew what they did. It is like asking the kid with crumbs all over their shirt whether they stole a cookie...



Not all Germans knew of or participated in the Holocaust.....especially the common foot soldier.

And considering resisting got someone killed,whether they we German or not,it`s not easy to blame the nobodies who were made to do the evil.


It`s not fair to paint them all with the same brush.

And not all Germans are reluctant to talk about WWII, either.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Also newly added to the WWII narative,stories about Muslims who helped Jewish people hide and escape from the nazis and nazi sympathizers.



"Besa: Muslims Who Saved Jews in World War II."



http://www.amazon.com/Besa-Muslims-Saved-Jews-World/dp/0815609345



After hearing about is how much Muslims hate Jews,Muslim = nazi yada yada.....for a half century,it`s nice to hear stories like this.



"Besa is a code of honor deeply rooted in Albanian culture and incorporated in the faith of Albanian Muslims. It dictates a moral behavior so absolute that nonadherence brings shame and dishonor on oneself and one's family. Simply stated, it demands that one take responsibility for the lives of others in their time of need. In Albania and Kosovo, Muslims sheltered, at grave risk to themselves and their families, not only the Jews of their cities and villages, but thousands of Jews fleeing the Nazis from other European countries."






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