RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else

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RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 7:26:14 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WebWanderer

What article? The court opinion you linked to? Just admit that your composition (or copy-pasting) skills suck and move on already. If you show the OP to 100 people, most of them would assume you're talking about the census, not about some obscure government questionnaire that isn't mentioned once in your post.

The court opinion? Please don't make this harder on yourself than it is already.

The subject of the OP (and the column it excerpts) is government apparachiks banging on people's doors asking probing questions. The hidden clue that this was the theme of the piece can be found in the fact that it was explicitly stated and formed the topic of both of the first two paragraphs.

You defectively assumed that the author, or myself or both, must be too stupid or ill-informed to know that the Bureau's population count is not conducted annually, even though the subject of the OP (and the column it excerpts) was obviously and explicitly something that is. Heh. Whooosh!

Ain't that a hoot? Bye now.

K.

(in reply to WebWanderer)

Post #: 21

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 7:26:52 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet
Funny, but without reading the article, I still figured out that this wasn't the Census, but a different questionaire. Also, I knew that it was the feeling of outrage that would happen every year, instead of once every ten years.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Reading the article only clarified that.

This, though, isn't nearly as creepy as the DHS trying to get us to report our neighbors for "suspicious activity".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Notsweet)

Post #: 22

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 8:23:47 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

This article claims that the CIA has just concluded a $600 million deal with Amazon to supply it with exclusive cloud technology to retain information on US citizens. Apparently the CIA's current servers cannot hold all the data it is collecting.

"[Amazon chief technology officer] Hunt admitted the intelligence community has long sought a database to store text messages, tweets, Facebook activity, videos and any other information Americans make available - intentionally or otherwise.
"Technology in this world is moving faster than government or law can keep up,” he said. “It’s moving faster, I would argue, than you can keep up. You should be asking the question of what are your rights and who owns your data.”
Hunt said CIA analysts have been at work on new algorithms that will break down vast amounts of information into easily digestible tools that allow them to closely examine trends in the public. The agency will then be able to base its covert strategies off those results.
“The value of any piece of technology is only known when you can connect it with something else that arrives at a future point in time,” he added. “Since you can’t connect dots you don’t have ... we fundamentally try to collect everything and hang on to it forever.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34368.htm?utm_source=ICH%3A++CIA+Plans+to+Keep+Your+Information+%27Forever%27&utm_campaign=FIRST&utm_medium=email

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/22/2013 8:25:37 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 23

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 8:48:30 AM

RottenJohnny

Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This article claims that the CIA has just concluded a $600 million deal with Amazon to supply it with exclusive cloud technology to retain information on US citizens. Apparently the CIA's current servers cannot hold all the data it is collecting.

"[Amazon chief technology officer] Hunt admitted the intelligence community has long sought a database to store text messages, tweets, Facebook activity, videos and any other information Americans make available - intentionally or otherwise.
"Technology in this world is moving faster than government or law can keep up,” he said. “It’s moving faster, I would argue, than you can keep up. You should be asking the question of what are your rights and who owns your data.”
Hunt said CIA analysts have been at work on new algorithms that will break down vast amounts of information into easily digestible tools that allow them to closely examine trends in the public. The agency will then be able to base its covert strategies off those results.
“The value of any piece of technology is only known when you can connect it with something else that arrives at a future point in time,” he added. “Since you can’t connect dots you don’t have ... we fundamentally try to collect everything and hang on to it forever.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34368.htm?utm_source=ICH%3A++CIA+Plans+to+Keep+Your+Information+%27Forever%27&utm_campaign=FIRST&utm_medium=email

I wouldn't at all be surprised by this even though, if I'm correct, the CIA isn't supposed to have any authority to do something like this domestically.

As far as the ACS is concerned, I didn't mind filling it out despite some of the questions they asked. What pissed me off was the amount of information that came with it explaining all the penalties I would endure if I didn't send it back.

< Message edited by RottenJohnny -- 3/22/2013 8:54:09 AM >

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 24

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 8:48:53 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

This, though, isn't nearly as creepy as the DHS...

Period.

NJ Congressman says DHS must explain ammunition and armored vehicle purchases
DHS refuses to answer Congress on 1.6 billion bullet purchase

K.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 25

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 8:53:13 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The Washington Times has always been an entertaining read. One of my coworkers used to subscribe and he'd get all pissed when I'd read it after him and start laughing hysterically.

The OP is about something called "The American Community Survey" which is the most intrusive door to door canvassing that noone her ever heard of.

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/

To help communities, state governments, and federal programs, we ask about:

•age
•sex
•race
•family and relationships

•income and benefits
•health insurance
•education
•veteran status

•disabilities
•where you work and how you get there
•where you live and how much you pay for some essentials

I don't know about you but if I were in local government of a town that was growing or shrinking, this info would be golden for making the citizen's lives easier.

yeh so would knowing the dataset used in the model for the collapse of wtc 7, however it is being withheld because it "would jeopardize public safety"!

Imagine the dangers to society should the government have all that information at their fingertip.

Oh wait they already do, maybe that is why we have such a happy lil beehive.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 26

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 8:57:02 AM

RottenJohnny

Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

This, though, isn't nearly as creepy as the DHS...

Period.

Amen to that.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 27

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 9:00:04 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

This, though, isn't nearly as creepy as the DHS...

Period.

Amen to that.

Just seeds, nothing to worry about, give it time. We all know history never repeats itself :)

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to RottenJohnny)

Post #: 28

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 9:12:42 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This article claims that the CIA has just concluded a $600 million deal with Amazon to supply it with exclusive cloud technology to retain information on US citizens. Apparently the CIA's current servers cannot hold all the data it is collecting.

"[Amazon chief technology officer] Hunt admitted the intelligence community has long sought a database to store text messages, tweets, Facebook activity, videos and any other information Americans make available - intentionally or otherwise.
"Technology in this world is moving faster than government or law can keep up,” he said. “It’s moving faster, I would argue, than you can keep up. You should be asking the question of what are your rights and who owns your data.”
Hunt said CIA analysts have been at work on new algorithms that will break down vast amounts of information into easily digestible tools that allow them to closely examine trends in the public. The agency will then be able to base its covert strategies off those results.
“The value of any piece of technology is only known when you can connect it with something else that arrives at a future point in time,” he added. “Since you can’t connect dots you don’t have ... we fundamentally try to collect everything and hang on to it forever.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34368.htm?utm_source=ICH%3A++CIA+Plans+to+Keep+Your+Information+%27Forever%27&utm_campaign=FIRST&utm_medium=email

nice post tweak,

yep thats just one of the lil snags that come along with being a "citizen" and dependent on mommy government to "protect" you when they are party to the action! LOL

as a citizen you have no right or ability to contract with the beast but through your fearless leaders who make shit loads of money from running the joint exactly as they are running!

Which brings up one of my pet peeves that you are a "citizen" hence you have a bonafide franchise and office within the government as a voting class member, yet you do not receive the same legal services and benefits as the other offices of government.

Then to make matters even shittier, the government forces itself upon INHABITANTS and NATIONALS, you know those americans that have the full right to be here and have been severely oppressed by government FORCING themselves on them. jlf you listening?

I guess its begs the question how many ways do we need to see that we are owned before we figure out that we are OWNED!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 29

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 9:23:17 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
This, though, isn't nearly as creepy as the DHS...

Period.
NJ Congressman says DHS must explain ammunition and armored vehicle purchases
DHS refuses to answer Congress on 1.6 billion bullet purchase
K.

You know what really annoys me? It's that there are huge points of agreement between the [alleged] conservatives and the [alleged] liberals. I sure do wish we could find a way to get together and work on them. I'd LOVE to align with anyone willing to dismantle the DHS completely and then worry about all the points of disagreement which remain. Frankly, I think there are lots and lots of such issues and if we got all of them solved the remaining differences would be a lot easier to tackle.

what we need is a 3rd party that sticks to these points of alignment... the purple party. Imagine the historical significance of a party which actually sought to represent the majority interest! It almost sounds undemocratic to suggest it.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 30

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 10:28:05 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
This, though, isn't nearly as creepy as the DHS...

Period.
NJ Congressman says DHS must explain ammunition and armored vehicle purchases
DHS refuses to answer Congress on 1.6 billion bullet purchase
K.

You know what really annoys me? It's that there are huge points of agreement between the [alleged] conservatives and the [alleged] liberals. I sure do wish we could find a way to get together and work on them. I'd LOVE to align with anyone willing to dismantle the DHS completely and then worry about all the points of disagreement which remain. Frankly, I think there are lots and lots of such issues and if we got all of them solved the remaining differences would be a lot easier to tackle.

what we need is a 3rd party that sticks to these points of alignment... the purple party. Imagine the historical significance of a party which actually sought to represent the majority interest! It almost sounds undemocratic to suggest it.

There is a lot of refusing to answer congress going around lately.

That said what form of government comes under that classification?

Could there have been a coup and we "missed it"?

Then there is the problem of how do commoners effect the power structure of the ptb through legal means when the ptb is creating agencies and preparing for war?

Against whom?

NSA wants a database on everything word ever uttered, people have their mug shots up on facebook, hell dont need death squads the commoners did all the work for them!

Removing a king from power is easy, chop off his head, how about these huge organizations? I do not see it happening, I see filthy lavish rich and penniless poor, like most other banana republics or lots of dead people.

Otherwise americans have guns with lip service rights and they cant use them for their intended purpose.

life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 31

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 3:49:51 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

This, though, isn't nearly as creepy as the DHS...

Period.

Amen to that.

Just seeds, nothing to worry about, give it time. We all know history never repeats itself :)

You`re in great company there....K.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 32

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/22/2013 6:53:07 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

whats wrong?

Your patriot act proponent pals losing customers are they?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 33

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/26/2013 7:00:38 AM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
any idea why jesus was born in bethleham?

That didn't actually happen. Such a census wasn't conducted and wouldn't have been. Making people travel to their place of birth in order to participate would be a nightmare even now, let alone back then. The story was invented to try and make it sound like Jesus was prophesied by Micah 5:2.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 34

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/26/2013 8:27:51 AM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Do you find this kind of intimate bureaucratic interest in your life intrusive and vaguely creepy?

No.

I think of it as a demographic equivalent of medical imaging. MRIs, CT scans, PET scans, ultrasounds, and the like equip physicians to see exactly what's happening and where inside a person's body, and aid in the selection of sound remedies. In the same way, the ACS (which is merely an adaptation of the long-form data the Census Bureau has collected for decades without destroying the republic) offers us a clearer look at the body politic and can help communities at various levels make reality-based decisions about, say, locating schools and hospitals (nether of which springs up overnight). I also know from my own work as writer and editor that census data is invaluable for understanding our demographics, particularly over time.

It's interesting that the aptly named Mr. Hurt offers no examples of privacy breaches or other misuses of census data. You know he'd wield them if he had them! So far as I can tell, his whole argument boils down to "government is bad" along with some paranoid ravings to entertain readers. Not for the first time, I find myself wondering if the Washington Times isn't actually an Onion-style parody with its owners (still the Moonies?) laughing behind closed doors at their readers.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 35

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/26/2013 8:41:08 AM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
any idea why jesus was born in bethleham?

That didn't actually happen. Such a census wasn't conducted and wouldn't have been. Making people travel to their place of birth in order to participate would be a nightmare even now, let alone back then. The story was invented to try and make it sound like Jesus was prophesied by Micah 5:2.

You have proof or is this just your belief or assertion? On what grounds do you say a census wasn't conducted?

Making people travel to their place of birth in order to participate would be a nightmare even now, let alone back then.

That postulation is insufficient in establishing your assertion as true.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 36

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/26/2013 8:47:06 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

But it is an extraordinary claim, to claim otherwise, Romans did not require the people to return to their ancestral home, and if it was the census of Quirinius, then there is another flaw in the fairytale, since Herod was dead, and Matthew and Luke didn't coordinate their fables.....

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 37

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/26/2013 10:15:46 AM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

Quinnius? Might you not be also referring to Herod Antipas?

No matter. Not looking to start an argument. Just questioning an assertion.

What's interesting is that Matt. and Luke didn't get their dates exact. Like witnesses in an investigation. Evidence of no collusion. But they both say there was a census. That they got dates differently does not support proof of GotSteel's assertion.

edit: also, MN, this is unclear as written-

But it is an extraordinary claim, to claim otherwise, Romans did not require the people to return to their ancestral home

It is extraordinary to claim that Rome DID NOT require? That's how it reads. Thus, Rome required. Is that what you are saying?

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/26/2013 10:30:04 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 38

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/26/2013 5:58:40 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The lucky among us will soon have government apparachiks knocking on our doors asking a LOT of questions.

Rage over the waste and injustice of agents sent by the federal government to bang on doors of law-abiding citizens to ask probing, creepy questions is normally something that bubbles up only every 10 years. But ever since the federal government became a cancerous leviathan, the outrage is now an annual occurrence.

The first census in 1790 asked a bare minimum of questions essential for establishing congressional districts of equal populations... In the 223 years since, the census has spawned an entire federal bureaucracy with tentacles reaching into the farthest hidden crannies of the country. It asks darkly invasive questions that are unnecessary at best...

The feds want to know exactly who you are and the color of your skin... they want to know your “relationships” with all the people in your house... These creepos even want to know how many bedrooms you have and all about your plumbing and even your “fertility” ...the federal fertility probe is crucial, they tell us, as “a basic planning tool for agencies of the government.” What? And, of course, they want to know exactly how much you are making, including wages, tips and even that loan you got from your grandmother.

And you'd better tell them, or else you're in deep shit.

Sen. Rand Paul, Kentucky Republican, last week introduced Senate Bill 530 to remove the criminal penalty for those who refuse to take part in this annual federal creep-fest that is not even required by the Constitution.

~Opinion: Charles Hurt

Do you find this kind of intimate bureaucratic interest in your life intrusive and vaguely creepy?

K.

I've heard this for years.

I've refused to fill out a census form since 1980 or so....never been hauled to jail.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 39

RE: U.S. Govt to Citizens: Tell us Everything or Else - 3/26/2013 9:39:16 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

This, though, isn't nearly as creepy as the DHS...

Period.

Amen to that.

Just seeds, nothing to worry about, give it time. We all know history never repeats itself :)

You`re in great company there....K.

You know what I find creepy.....all these folks who think of themselves as American as apple pie,yet feel that their government is their enemy .
The duly elected gov.that is...some of these nitwits even go so far as to refer to civil service employees as "apparachiks" a term closely associated with Stalinist Russia.

To me that's what is creepy.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 40

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