RE: Huge question... (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> RE: Huge question... (3/23/2013 6:59:14 PM)

AFAIK, the only way to treat bipolar is iterative. Give a drug, see if it works, keep going until something does the job with minimal side effects. So is the doctor following up and seeing if the drugs are effective and the side effects are minimal?



breagha -> RE: Huge question... (3/23/2013 7:04:40 PM)

AFAIK? sorry i'm not up on the shortened versions of things.

after LONG LONG conversations with her and a few close friends, my friend has decided to continue with therapy, attempt to get a second opinion, and NOT try the meds until she can clarify the need/reason for trying them.

she was also unaware of the different levels of bi polarity ( is that a word? ) and has said that it is actually possible that he is correct in the diagnosis. we researched some things together and she identified with a few of the symptoms. at this point she is a bit scared.

is bi polar disorder successfully treated without medication? or is it most likely something she will have to resolve herself to needing?



DarkSteven -> RE: Huge question... (3/23/2013 8:26:45 PM)

As Far As I Know.

I can only tell you what my sub dug up regarding her son. If you treat bipolar early enough, you can correct it to the point where drugs are no longer needed. If not, then no.

That said, he is on Abilify and sees no side effects at all. Seeing as how he was delusional without it, the decision was easy.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Huge question... (3/23/2013 10:13:33 PM)

I won't say that she will definitely need medication, but I won't say that she can do it without either. Like most things, there is no definite here. Through therapy, she may be able to manage it on her own, it is possible.

I don't think this is something she should be scared of though. She was diagnosed with a mood disorder, not cancer. A little perspective on the situation would be a good thing.

One question though...she had no trouble with the idea of sleeping pills, so what is her issue with the other meds?



angelikaJ -> RE: Huge question... (3/24/2013 6:54:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha

AFAIK? sorry i'm not up on the shortened versions of things.

after LONG LONG conversations with her and a few close friends, my friend has decided to continue with therapy, attempt to get a second opinion, and NOT try the meds until she can clarify the need/reason for trying them.

she was also unaware of the different levels of bi polarity ( is that a word? ) and has said that it is actually possible that he is correct in the diagnosis. we researched some things together and she identified with a few of the symptoms. at this point she is a bit scared.

is bi polar disorder successfully treated without medication? or is it most likely something she will have to resolve herself to needing?


Generally speaking if it is not treated it tends to get worse.

Since your friend is actually identifying with some of the symptoms it might be good if she began the trial of medication.
Once a medication is found that works for her, the manageability of her life should increase a lot.

BTW: the type of therapy that seems most effective for Bi-polar is something called cognitive behavioral therapy.
Therapy plus medication seems to work much better than medication alone.

And her psychiatrist did not pick one of the bright new shiny drugs; he chose something that is available as a generic.
That actually speaks very well of him.



breagha -> RE: Huge question... (3/24/2013 7:49:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I won't say that she will definitely need medication, but I won't say that she can do it without either. Like most things, there is no definite here. Through therapy, she may be able to manage it on her own, it is possible.

I don't think this is something she should be scared of though. She was diagnosed with a mood disorder, not cancer. A little perspective on the situation would be a good thing.

One question though...she had no trouble with the idea of sleeping pills, so what is her issue with the other meds?


i think that she feels like if she has to take a drug daily it will somehow change her ( like who she is how she acts etc ). in our group talk the other night she also suggested that being dependent on a drug to feel or be "normal" might make her weak in personality. like she can't handle and take care of things without a chemical. the sleeping pill she can take only when she is having "insomniac" moments. at least that is what her doctor told her. honestly i wish that she could just make a profile here and address this. i might have her read through it anyway... i think it would be helpful for her to see.



breagha -> RE: Huge question... (3/24/2013 8:08:07 AM)

you make a good point there in that it could get worse. she starts her round of therapy this week and she is going to try to spend some time talking to therapist about the drug and what she should expect etc. her follow up with the doctor is the following week and perhaps he will then take the time to discuss both the diagnosis and the drug with her.

i think that she might be shocked about the diagnosis. bi polar disorder has a very negative connotation ( at least with the people i know ) and a reputation of being out of control at all times. Perhaps it is the manic aspect of ( what i now know ) the one or two levels of bi polar that give it that " scary" feeling for her.



angelikaJ -> RE: Huge question... (3/24/2013 8:18:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I won't say that she will definitely need medication, but I won't say that she can do it without either. Like most things, there is no definite here. Through therapy, she may be able to manage it on her own, it is possible.

I don't think this is something she should be scared of though. She was diagnosed with a mood disorder, not cancer. A little perspective on the situation would be a good thing.

One question though...she had no trouble with the idea of sleeping pills, so what is her issue with the other meds?


i think that she feels like if she has to take a drug daily it will somehow change her ( like who she is how she acts etc ). in our group talk the other night she also suggested that being dependent on a drug to feel or be "normal" might make her weak in personality. like she can't handle and take care of things without a chemical. the sleeping pill she can take only when she is having "insomniac" moments. at least that is what her doctor told her. honestly i wish that she could just make a profile here and address this. i might have her read through it anyway... i think it would be helpful for her to see.


I can relate to this: I have no problems with the idea of anti-depressant medication for anyone who needs it.... except of course me!

Somehow, because I am bright, I think that there should be some sort of exception... I should be able to think my way out of it.

But here's the thing: ask your friend if she had diabetes and needed to take medication for that, or high blood pressure, if taking care of herself by taking appropriate medication for those things would mean she was weak?
We have this idea that a mental illness or mood disorder is somehow different and we should be able to self-repair by sheer force of will or something.
Bi-polar disorder is caused by issues with brain chemistry.
It is not a weakness, anymore than kidney disease is a weakness, or Asthma, Lupus, or Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Bi-polar disorder is as much a physical illness as Diabetes is.
It is an imbalance in brain chemistry.

Medications can have side effects, but that is true for any medication, not just psychotropic ones.

Open and honest dialogue with one's physician can help one find a medication with the fewest possible side effects that works well.




breagha -> RE: Huge question... (3/24/2013 9:06:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


I can relate to this: I have no problems with the idea of anti-depressant medication for anyone who needs it.... except of course me!

Somehow, because I am bright, I think that there should be some sort of exception... I should be able to think my way out of it.

But here's the thing: ask your friend if she had diabetes and needed to take medication for that, or high blood pressure, if taking care of herself by taking appropriate medication for those things would mean she was weak?
We have this idea that a mental illness or mood disorder is somehow different and we should be able to self-repair by sheer force of will or something.
Bi-polar disorder is caused by issues with brain chemistry.
It is not a weakness, anymore than kidney disease is a weakness, or Asthma, Lupus, or Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Bi-polar disorder is as much a physical illness as Diabetes is.
It is an imbalance in brain chemistry.

Medications can have side effects, but that is true for any medication, not just psychotropic ones.

Open and honest dialogue with one's physician can help one find a medication with the fewest possible side effects that works well.




i think the part in bold is the issue exactly. she's smart and feels that she should be able to overcome this without the help of medication.

she has said that "with the proper stimulation i should be able to do this without being a pharmie zombie" i can't say as i disagree with her on the zombie part. i don't think the side effects are the issue for her. they were for me because i was confused as to why they would want to give her a medication that is used to convulsions and seizures. with the clarity from research and the posting here i understand that a little more.

all in all i just want what is best for my friend. even if that means that she needs medication to make her feel better.



DreamyLadySnow -> RE: Huge question... (3/24/2013 10:18:31 AM)

Bi-polar has been shown to have a genetic connection, meaning its' not going to 'go away' any more than the color of your eyes will change in mid-life. It can get worse. I am quite sure there are people who do ok without meds, if theirs is not too severe.
I'm 50 and only just got diagnosed and started on meds. But for me, I never became delusional or ended up hospitalized.
However my life is so much better with the meds. It's slowed down the non-stop racing that my brain did. It was making my life a living hell. It's worth it, for me.



angelikaJ -> RE: Huge question... (3/24/2013 6:28:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


I can relate to this: I have no problems with the idea of anti-depressant medication for anyone who needs it.... except of course me!

Somehow, because I am bright, I think that there should be some sort of exception... I should be able to think my way out of it.

But here's the thing: ask your friend if she had diabetes and needed to take medication for that, or high blood pressure, if taking care of herself by taking appropriate medication for those things would mean she was weak?
We have this idea that a mental illness or mood disorder is somehow different and we should be able to self-repair by sheer force of will or something.
Bi-polar disorder is caused by issues with brain chemistry.
It is not a weakness, anymore than kidney disease is a weakness, or Asthma, Lupus, or Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Bi-polar disorder is as much a physical illness as Diabetes is.
It is an imbalance in brain chemistry.

Medications can have side effects, but that is true for any medication, not just psychotropic ones.

Open and honest dialogue with one's physician can help one find a medication with the fewest possible side effects that works well.




i think the part in bold is the issue exactly. she's smart and feels that she should be able to overcome this without the help of medication.

she has said that "with the proper stimulation i should be able to do this without being a pharmie zombie" i can't say as i disagree with her on the zombie part. i don't think the side effects are the issue for her. they were for me because i was confused as to why they would want to give her a medication that is used to convulsions and seizures. with the clarity from research and the posting here i understand that a little more.

all in all i just want what is best for my friend. even if that means that she needs medication to make her feel better.



One need not become a "pharma-zombie"... not all medications have side effects that hit everyone hard.
It is a very individualised thing.

If one thing doesn't work then something else certainly will.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Huge question... (3/24/2013 6:52:31 PM)

Some people seem to have this adverse opinion about needing medication that is well....not a very intelligent way of looking at things. I get the whole concept of not wanting to put "foreign" or chemical substances in your body. Your friend obviously doesn't fall into this category, since she has no trouble asking for a sleeping pill. I don't know whether she is bi-polar or not, but whatever the diagnosis is, she has two choices...continue feeling like crap and unable to handle the stress in her life, or grow up and take the medication. If it doesn't work, then try something else, continue with therapy and work towards getting better.

I know that sounds snarky, and I really don't mean it to be. I am one of those people that if the doctor says I need medication, I ask questions, right then and there. If I am in pain, I don't believe I should suffer through it until it goes away, because I don't need more chemicals in my body. When I have needed anti-depressants, I took them, because they would make me feel better.

Don't get me wrong, there are medications that I avoid taking. I have generalized anxiety disorder and panic attacks. However, over the more than 20 years I've had them, I have learned to manage them and usually can bring them under control. I don't take heavy migraine drugs, but instead have things I do to improve my migraine. Granted, both things will sometimes reach points that I can't get them under control, and at those times I will seek chemical intervention.

Why would someone want to suffer just because they don't want to take medication? I seriously don't get it.



littlewonder -> RE: Huge question... (3/24/2013 7:27:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha

i think that she feels like if she has to take a drug daily it will somehow change her ( like who she is how she acts etc ). in our group talk the other night she also suggested that being dependent on a drug to feel or be "normal" might make her weak in personality. like she can't handle and take care of things without a chemical. the sleeping pill she can take only when she is having "insomniac" moments. at least that is what her doctor told her. honestly i wish that she could just make a profile here and address this. i might have her read through it anyway... i think it would be helpful for her to see.


Of course it's going to change who she is and how she acts. That's the point. I take meds every single day for my depression. Yup it changed who I am and my actions. It keeps me from not wanting to get out of bed. It keeps me from doing stupid shit. It keeps me from thinking I'm worthless and that I want to kill myself.

Maybe she should think about WHY her doctor sees her as bi-polar and the how those meds will help her with the negative acts in her life that keep her from being a better person than she is now.




breagha -> RE: Huge question... (3/25/2013 1:18:13 PM)

First i will say that she isn't willing to take the medication because she wants to be more informed by her doctor on the why and what and how of it all. i can't say that it is a bad thing to want to be more informed.

some people are afraid of change. she went in for therapy because she was having an issue in regard to some things that happened to her a year or so ago. she is/was having what she believes is some residual anger/emotional issues that stemmed from that. She isn't one that can't get out of bed in the morning. she isn't a cutter or harmful to herself in anyway. she isn't suicidal. she doesn't use drugs in a recreational way. she only drinks alcohol on rare occasions. she is attentive and playful with her children. she goes to work daily. in my opinion she has a good amount of confidence and self esteem. i think the shock she had was because she wasn't expecting what she is experiencing to be labeled as a mood or mental disorder.

she also may be hung up on labels. the fact that the drug prescribed is not an "approved" anti depressant/anxiety medication alarms her. she is concerned because it is a drug that is given to people with pain. and seizures. neither of which she has. i can understand her trepidation. i personally don't see an issue with taking a medication if it helps you. i have been on meds for years.

i'm a believer in things turning out for the better. she will get through this situation, with or without medication, and has a large support network of people who love her.



angelikaJ -> RE: Huge question... (3/25/2013 2:11:17 PM)

My suggestion would be for her to call her health insurance company and have them refer her to a different psychiatrist...
wanting to understand the whys and hows of this specific diagnosis is normal.

Now, anti-seizure medications are often prescribed for bipolar disorder (as are "atypical anti-psychotics": yet another very scary sounding label... ) but if you look up neurontin, you will see it is not indicated for mono-therapy (a stand alone drug) for bipolar disorderat all but as something to be used as adjunctive therapy.

Given those 2 issues, she should ask to see someone else.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Huge question... (3/25/2013 4:06:22 PM)

That's part of my point. When she was handed those two prescriptions, why didn't she immediately question it? When he told her she was bi-polar, why didn't she question it? I realize something like that could cause a jaw to drop and be a bit flabbergasted for a moment, but still...did he say you are bi-polar, here's some scripts, have a nice day? I know psychiatrists aren't therapists, and essentially are just there to write scripts and diagnose, but it is reasonable to expect more.

In the meantime, has she discussed this with her therapist, gotten the therapist's view on the subject? This is obviously causing her a great deal of stress and anxiety, so that really is the appropriate place to discuss it.

As for the drug...I discuss each prescription with my doctor when he goes to write it. What it is, what is for, what to expect. I happen to have a pretty broad knowledge base about various medications, so there isn't often a need. Other times, if I forgot to ask my doctor a question, I ask my pharmacist. That IS part of their job, to answer questions. She could have called the pharmacy when she got home and read the insert, he would have explained it to her, if she told him what the shrink diagnosed.

I guess I'm lucky. I have a great doctor who has no problem discussing anything, and I also have a great pharmacy with two pharmacists who are always available to answer questions. In fact, one of the reasons I stayed in this area when I was moving last year was because I didn't want to change pharmacies, lol. I know it sounds odd, but I take nearly $700 in meds each month, and they know me, so it works well.

Anyway, your friend needs to:

Talk to her therapist about the diagnosis, which would qualify as a second opinion
Call the psychiatrist and tell him she needs to discuss the diagnosis with him
Look into a second shrink.



littlewonder -> RE: Huge question... (3/25/2013 7:13:43 PM)

quote:

some people are afraid of change. she went in for therapy because she was having an issue in regard to some things that happened to her a year or so ago. she is/was having what she believes is some residual anger/emotional issues that stemmed from that.


Isn't this a part of her that she wants to change? The doc it seems, thought this was a larger problem than maybe she thought. Many people don't see their problems until someone else points them out and confronts them about it.

If people met me in real life, they would think I'm like your friend.....no problems, smiling, talking, laughing, hanging out and just enjoying life. But here's the thing, if they saw me alone, when I'm not around other people, they would see the crash. It's like I used to tell my daughter when she would say "I wish we were like so and so's family. They're so normal and such a great family"; You only see the facade, what they show to everyone else. You don't see the real family behind the doors.




thishereboi -> RE: Huge question... (3/25/2013 7:26:09 PM)

I couldn't find anything that said it was used for bi polar but I did find this. http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Meds/Neurontin not sure how reliable it is. I would probably try to see someone else who wasn't so quick to try drugs.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Huge question... (3/25/2013 8:15:21 PM)

Well, if she is bi-polar, drugs are what are needed. It isn't treated simply with a good therapist.

Did you check the source on that site? Not one doctor, pharmacist or even therapist writing that information. Not exactly what I would call a "go to" reference site for drug info.



MistressDarkArt -> RE: Huge question... (3/26/2013 12:36:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I was given a drug for my stomach problems. I also have sleeping problems. I've yet to have any sleeping pills help me....but amazingly the stomach drug puts me out like a light. I mentioned this to the doctor and she said if it works for the sleep too then just take it when you need to sleep and it will help your stomach also. So that's what I do.



Hey, that's gotta be one for Huey Lewis, lw! Would you pm, or post here what is was?

Re: off-label uses: one of the weirdest ones I've seen was Zantac, a stomach acid reducer. It was prescribed to S for his skin allergy. Didn't work for a damn, though.



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