quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
My solution to the problem is for both sides to stop the partisan bullshit and sit down with professionals from the industry in the field of cost of care, and work out a viable solution.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Yes, because modern corporatism has worked so well for us so far we should definitely do more of it.

So wait. Just to be clear here. You think that the government should get hold of "professionals from the industry" and together they should cook up some scheme and the results of that will somehow benefit anyone but government and the industries? In what alternate world does this happen?

Look. If the US wanted to fix this they could simply look over the border at what is happening in Canada and implement it. Problem solved. Oh wait... no the problem isn't solved because 2 billion lobbyists would descend on DC if anyone even floated that idea. Next we'd see television ads claiming that there are death panels in Canada and people with brain tumors can't get medical attention because there are no doctors and the raft of other made up bullshit that comes every time.

If we wanted to fix it we'd go to any of the zillion countries where it is already way better and ask for some help. That's what normal people would do anyway... find someone who's doing it better and get some help.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
My solution to the problem is for both sides to stop the partisan bullshit and sit down with professionals from the industry in the field of cost of care, and work out a viable solution.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Yes, because modern corporatism has worked so well for us so far we should definitely do more of it.

So wait. Just to be clear here. You think that the government should get hold of "professionals from the industry" and together they should cook up some scheme and the results of that will somehow benefit anyone but government and the industries? In what alternate world does this happen?

Look. If the US wanted to fix this they could simply look over the border at what is happening in Canada and implement it. Problem solved. Oh wait... no the problem isn't solved because 2 billion lobbyists would descend on DC if anyone even floated that idea. Next we'd see television ads claiming that there are death panels in Canada and people with brain tumors can't get medical attention because there are no doctors and the raft of other made up bullshit that comes every time.

If we wanted to fix it we'd go to any of the zillion countries where it is already way better and ask for some help. That's what normal people would do anyway... find someone who's doing it better and get some help.

First of all, I said in the area of "cost for care." Which implies not a fucking insurance company hack.

Secondly, as far as your statement about capitalism, you have a suggestion for a better system? The Soviet Union did real good with a socialist/communist system didnt it? China seems to be shifting to a free trade economy.

quote:


Secondly, as far as your statement about capitalism, you have a suggestion for a better system? The Soviet Union did real good with a socialist/communist system didnt it? China seems to be shifting to a free trade economy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
First of all, I said in the area of "cost for care." Which implies not a fucking insurance company hack.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
First of all, I said in the area of "cost for care." Which implies not a fucking insurance company hack.

well, in this article: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/a-german-import-that-could-help-american-health-reform/
one person of the replying folks to this article wrote:
A childhood friend and I recently shared an experience no one would wish on any two old friends. We were each diagnosed with colorectal cancer 3 years ago. The difference in our experience was striking in one area. She is married to a German citizen and has lived in Germany off and on for the past 30 years; therefore her treatment was covered by German health insurance.

I, on the other hand, was at the time a full-time caregiver to my mother and “covered” by what I could afford: a private pay hospital-only health policy. I was excluded from my boyfriend’s far more comprehensive employer paid health policy because we were not married.

My friend had first-class treatment for the initial cancer, as well as for two subsequent cancers (breast and liver) without spending a penny.
I ended up with a $16,000 bill for just the one.

My friend’s husband’s company operates both in Germany and the US and he lives here most of the year. She therefore had to endure much of her treatment alone. They would like to come back to the US, but as we sat in her mother’s dining room in upstate New York last week discussing such a possibility, there was only one thing stopping them: the threat that she would be excluded from health care coverage because of her preexisting condition, or the certainty that they would never be able to afford the cost if she were covered.
 
 
 
another person on that link replied:
Americans have traditionally been too proud to learn anything from the health systems of other nations.”
Frankly, Americans have been too proud to learn any lessons at all about anything from any other nation.
We are the most pathetically myopic people on the planet and we are too ignorant and self-absorbed to recognize that we have a host of problems that could be solved simply by looking at the successes of other nations.
Until we, as a nation, pull our collective heads out from our behinds, we will continue to sink into an abyss of failure.
Now....I am not judging that fact, but I do hope that one day you have better health coverage over there as well...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:


Secondly, as far as your statement about capitalism, you have a suggestion for a better system? The Soviet Union did real good with a socialist/communist system didnt it? China seems to be shifting to a free trade economy.

Let us forever untwine capitalism and communism, the fuckin commies are capitalists as well, the chinese are communist political system and have a capitalist economic system.

Economic systems are:  capitalism, socialism, feudalism and mixed economy.

The Chinese may have a mixed economy, but I have reservations about that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

This may or may not be a valid point but, assuming that it is; what the article actually says is that instead of fixing the problem of inflated costs, Obummercare is going to make the costs go up, even more.

So, to give a direct answer to: "you might like to ponder why US healthcare consumers pay twice as much as consumers in the rest of the West for a lot less quantity and quality of health care" : It would appear that one of the reasons for rising costs is Obummercare.



Peace and comfort,

Michael

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
ObummerCare

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Everyone on the right complains about Obamacare adding to the problem, and everyone on the extreme left scream for a system that would cause more problems than it fixes for the states to switch to.

But no one has offered a viable alternative to fix the problem that makes sense. Instead everyone fucking argues about solutions in favor of solutions that wont work, or is damn near impossible to implement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Secondly, as far as your statement about capitalism, you have a suggestion for a better system? The Soviet Union did real good with a socialist/communist system didnt it? China seems to be shifting to a free trade economy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
ObummerCare

Right off the bat, you're asking me to take seriously an article that cannot even take itself seriously? The article itself refers to "Obamacare" rather than "ACA" or "Affordable Care Act".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Second sentence, fourth paragraph
As this start date draws near, evidence is piling up that ObamaCare will: Boost insurance costs. Officially the "Affordable Care Act," ObamaCare promised to lower premiums for families. But regulators decided to impose a 3.5% surcharge on insurance plans sold through federally run exchanges.