141 counts of first degree murder with one victim?

141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 5:51:52 AM)
quote: Hadiya Pendleton Suspects: Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams Plead Not Guilty To Shooting Teen CHICAGO — Two men pleaded not guilty Thursday – one to 141 counts of first-degree murder – in the shooting death of a 15-year-old Chicago girl who performed at President Barack Obama's inaugural festivities days before she died. Both Michael Ward, 18, and Kenneth Williams, 20, pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, attempted murder, aggravated discharge of a firearm and a long list of other charges in Hadiya Pendleton's death. She was shot Jan. 29 after she and her friends sought shelter from the rain in a city park. Ward and Williams had been hunting for rival gang members and Pendleton was an innocent bystander, prosecutors say. Her killing about a mile from Obama's home on Chicago's South Side made national news and became a symbol of movements to end gun violence. Michelle Obama attended her funeral. Ward was the one charged with 141 murder counts. His attorney, Jeff Granich, said in a phone interview Thursday he has never heard of a case of a single murder with anything close to that number of counts. I victim and 141 counts of the same crime? Can someone tell me how that is possible?

Moonhead -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 5:54:56 AM)
Maybe the victim was a cartoon and took a lot of shooting?

vincentML -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 5:58:38 AM)
quote: I victim and 141 counts of the same crime? Can someone tell me how that is possible? Only because they could not find 142. If these guys are guilty let them spend the rest of their rotten lives getting corn-holed daily in jail. No sympathy in this case.

muhly22222 -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 5:59:24 AM)
I haven't heard of anything like that before, either. My best guess is that it boils down to the prosecutor's ability to indict a ham sandwich. Even if he's convicted of all 141 counts, they should all merge into one count, since it's the same offense. It's not like you can kill somebody (which is the crime he committed) more than once. Not that there aren't some people who that should be available for. [:D]

Nosathro -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 6:22:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: Hadiya Pendleton Suspects: Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams Plead Not Guilty To Shooting Teen CHICAGO — Two men pleaded not guilty Thursday – one to 141 counts of first-degree murder – in the shooting death of a 15-year-old Chicago girl who performed at President Barack Obama's inaugural festivities days before she died. Both Michael Ward, 18, and Kenneth Williams, 20, pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, attempted murder, aggravated discharge of a firearm and a long list of other charges in Hadiya Pendleton's death. She was shot Jan. 29 after she and her friends sought shelter from the rain in a city park. Ward and Williams had been hunting for rival gang members and Pendleton was an innocent bystander, prosecutors say. Her killing about a mile from Obama's home on Chicago's South Side made national news and became a symbol of movements to end gun violence. Michelle Obama attended her funeral. Ward was the one charged with 141 murder counts. His attorney, Jeff Granich, said in a phone interview Thursday he has never heard of a case of a single murder with anything close to that number of counts. I victim and 141 counts of the same crime? Can someone tell me how that is possible? quote: Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams The article is misleading they have many charges against them some related to the shooting, two others with Hadiya Pendleton, were also shoot. Some of the other charges are related to that, two counts of attempted murder and two counts of aggravated battery with a firearm. I am a somewhat curious, if one complaint from those who are pro gun and such is that current laws are not being enforced, well here they are and you are complaining about that, you can't have it both ways.

BamaD -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 8:39:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: Hadiya Pendleton Suspects: Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams Plead Not Guilty To Shooting Teen CHICAGO — Two men pleaded not guilty Thursday – one to 141 counts of first-degree murder – in the shooting death of a 15-year-old Chicago girl who performed at President Barack Obama's inaugural festivities days before she died. Both Michael Ward, 18, and Kenneth Williams, 20, pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, attempted murder, aggravated discharge of a firearm and a long list of other charges in Hadiya Pendleton's death. She was shot Jan. 29 after she and her friends sought shelter from the rain in a city park. Ward and Williams had been hunting for rival gang members and Pendleton was an innocent bystander, prosecutors say. Her killing about a mile from Obama's home on Chicago's South Side made national news and became a symbol of movements to end gun violence. Michelle Obama attended her funeral. Ward was the one charged with 141 murder counts. His attorney, Jeff Granich, said in a phone interview Thursday he has never heard of a case of a single murder with anything close to that number of counts. I victim and 141 counts of the same crime? Can someone tell me how that is possible? quote: Michael Ward And Kenneth Williams The article is misleading they have many charges against them some related to the shooting, two others with Hadiya Pendleton, were also shoot. Some of the other charges are related to that, two counts of attempted murder and two counts of aggravated battery with a firearm. I am a somewhat curious, if one complaint from those who are pro gun and such is that current laws are not being enforced, well here they are and you are complaining about that, you can't have it both ways. If the article is accurate and they have been charged with 141 counts of the same thing the this constitutes prosecutorial misconduct. If they have 141 different charges against them the prosecutor may be overzealous but it is a case of journalistic incompitence. Saying that finding somthing is wrong on someones part is somehow not wanting these guys punished (assuming they are guilty, we want to get the right people) denoted a lack of contact with reality.

DaNewAgeViking -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 11:47:46 AM)
What's happening is they charged him with every possible variation and permutation of the act in the hope that something will stick. This is typical in prosecution - charging murder, manslaughter, and reckless endangerment so the jury has fallback positions in case the higher charge isn't proven. I suspect most of those 141 charges are for related matters such as illegal possession of a firearm, conspiracy, etc. [sm=bury.gif]

muhly22222 -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 3:56:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking What's happening is they charged him with every possible variation and permutation of the act in the hope that something will stick. This is typical in prosecution - charging murder, manslaughter, and reckless endangerment so the jury has fallback positions in case the higher charge isn't proven. I suspect most of those 141 charges are for related matters such as illegal possession of a firearm, conspiracy, etc. Unless you've read the actual indictment, I'd doubt this is the case. If so...link, please? I can't speak for Illinois, but in most (if not all) jurisdictions in the US, a murder charge automatically includes a manslaughter charge, since manslaughter is a lesser-included-offense of murder. So there's no need for the prosecutor to include a manslaughter charge on the indictment. Additionally, doing things like using a firearm are typically treated as specifications to a murder count, so there's no need to include them as separate charges. The jury can find a person guilty of the murder count without finding them guilty of using a firearm, for instance (though not vice-versa). The article said the defendant was charged with 141 counts of first-degree murder. Either the journalist misunderstood (which wouldn't exactly be the first time that's happened), or some prosecutor is going to be facing the disciplinary process very soon.

Yachtie -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 4:05:45 PM)
FR Has anyone considered it was but a misprint? [8\|]

BamaD -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 4:24:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie FR Has anyone considered it was but a misprint? [8\|] Considering the level of incompitence needed by either the prosecuter or the journalist I would hope it is a misprint.

erieangel -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 10:32:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie FR Has anyone considered it was but a misprint? [8\|] Considering the level of incompitence needed by either the prosecuter or the journalist I would hope it is a misprint. That was my thought. I think it was 141 counts between the 2 defendants in total including first degree murder.

BamaD -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/29/2013 11:24:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie FR Has anyone considered it was but a misprint? [8\|] Considering the level of incompitence needed by either the prosecuter or the journalist I would hope it is a misprint. That was my thought. I think it was 141 counts between the 2 defendants in total including first degree murder. That would make much more sense

jlf1961 -> RE: 141 counts of first degree murder with one victim? (3/30/2013 2:52:59 AM)
Sorry, here is the link for the story Suspect in Hadiya slaying indicted on 141 counts of murder

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