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What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 7:41:22 AM   
Nosathro


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There have been a few post concerning what schools teach, here is one that really gets me and it is in Texas? I wonder if any othe school board is a member of the Westboro Church?

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-school-backs-off-teaching-9-11-america-093412697.html
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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 7:44:35 AM   
cordeliasub


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I gotta say....I have trouble with teaching my kids that the thousands of people who died on that day deserved it. Just sayin'. I wonder if people actually believe that or if it is just the fun of being shocking and contrary.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 8:47:03 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

I gotta say....I have trouble with teaching my kids that the thousands of people who died on that day deserved it. Just sayin'. I wonder if people actually believe that or if it is just the fun of being shocking and contrary.

That isn't actually what anybody was arguing, if you read the article. Still, they can't peddle that sort of nasty liberal-relativist drivel to the kids anymore now, can they?

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 8:56:55 AM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

I gotta say....I have trouble with teaching my kids that the thousands of people who died on that day deserved it. Just sayin'. I wonder if people actually believe that or if it is just the fun of being shocking and contrary.

That isn't actually what anybody was arguing, if you read the article. Still, they can't peddle that sort of nasty liberal-relativist drivel to the kids anymore now, can they?


I am having trouble with your label "Liberal-relativist drivel" The Westboro Church does claim that those killed in 911 deserved it for it was God who caused it to show his anger at homosexuals.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 8:59:37 AM   
Moonhead


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Yes, but the article you've linked to doesn't mention the 911 attack being divine retribution in the pop quiz they're discussing:

quote:

Fifth graders in a public school in Corpus Christi, Texas will no longer be learning that the United States deserved the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks because of its foreign policy.
Kara Sands, the mother of a student at Flour Bluff Intermediate School, announced earlier this week that the school has agreed to stop teaching that America’s “negative effects” led to the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.
Sands says she made the discovery when she was perusing a quiz her son had taken earlier this month.
The third question on the controversial quiz was: “Why might the United States be a target for terrorism?” according to CBS Houston. The credited answer — which Sands’s son did, in fact, select — was (B.) “Decisions we made in the United States have had negative effects on people elsewhere.”
Other possible answers were (A.) “Other people just don’t like Americans,” (C.) “Terrorists hate everyone,” and, of course, (D.) “None of the above.”
The quiz occurred after students watched a half-hour-long video in class called “Remembering September 11th.”


Is that the story you thought you'd linked? No mention of Phelps and his goblins anywhere...

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 3/29/2013 9:00:44 AM >


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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 9:04:56 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
I am having trouble with your label "Liberal-relativist drivel" The Westboro Church does claim that those killed in 911 deserved it for it was God who caused it to show his anger at homosexuals.


I didn't see Westboro mentioned in the article. Is it the subject of the thread?


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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 9:13:17 AM   
Level


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So, basically, it was blaming America.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 9:16:37 AM   
Moonhead


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Which is evidently unacceptable in Texas.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 9:18:43 AM   
Nosathro


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Sorry for the confusion. Westboro was not included in the article. They are just another example of a group that blames the US for what happen.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 9:20:24 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

I gotta say....I have trouble with teaching my kids that the thousands of people who died on that day deserved it. Just sayin'. I wonder if people actually believe that or if it is just the fun of being shocking and contrary.

That isn't actually what anybody was arguing, if you read the article. Still, they can't peddle that sort of nasty liberal-relativist drivel to the kids anymore now, can they?

Liberal-activist drivel ? Not even a nice try. Try right-wing, radical religious blame-America's-sinning drivel.

America has at times abused its superpower status so what, nobody's perfect but that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 9:34:32 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Which is evidently unacceptable in Texas.


Probably 49 other states too, to varying degrees.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 9:53:05 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

The third question on the controversial quiz was: “Why might the United States be a target for terrorism?” according to CBS Houston. The credited answer — which Sands’s son did, in fact, select — was (B.) “Decisions we made in the United States have had negative effects on people elsewhere.”
Other possible answers were (A.) “Other people just don’t like Americans,” (C.) “Terrorists hate everyone,” and, of course, (D.) “None of the above.”


This is one of the quiz questions? Is this supposed to teach the facts of history?

It seems to me that students should be graded based on their retention and understanding of the course material. A question like this should have a more open-ended response, perhaps an essay question, but not multiple choice where students are compelled to pick the "right" answer - which is really nothing more than a vague opinion, not an actual historical fact.

More from the article:

quote:

This kerfuffle is far from The Lone Star State’s first rodeo when it comes to problematic, politically-charged material allegedly seeping into school curriculums. The state seems to have an unrelenting problem in this regard.

The most common complaints relate to CSCOPE, a prefab curriculum that critics say is riddled with cultural relativism and downright leftist assumptions, particularly in social studies. (RELATED: Ten shocking lessons a huge Texas conglomerate has foisted on public school students)

A CSCOPE world history lesson plan that was available to teachers across Texas as recently as January of 2012 depicted the Boston Tea Party as an act of terrorism. “It is believed that the terrorist attack was a response to the policies enacted by the occupying country’s government,” the assignment read. (RELATED: Texas schools teach Boston Tea Party as act of terrorism)

Also, in a world geography class in Lumberton, Texas, a teacher allegedly encouraged high school girls to dress up in full-length Islamic burqas. The teacher also instructed the entire class that Muslim terrorists are actually freedom fighters. (RELATED: Texas public school students don burqas, learn that Muslim terrorists are freedom fighters)


I never heard of this "CSCOPE" before. Don't teachers write their own lesson plans anymore?

I don't know if these lessons are as one-sided as they seem to be. The teachers can add their own material and present all sides objectively and let the students decide. I even wonder why these lessons seem to be spoon-feeding information to the students anyway. The best teachers I've seen are those who force the students to go look things up for themselves. They want students to think, not memorize a list of "correct" opinions.


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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 10:46:54 AM   
cordeliasub


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quote:

The best teachers I've seen are those who force the students to go look things up for themselves. They want students to think, not memorize a list of "correct" opinions.


This is how it should be.....but unfortunately, it might not be on the bubble-in high stakes test.......

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 11:01:10 AM   
muhly22222


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quote:

quote:

The third question on the controversial quiz was: “Why might the United States be a target for terrorism?” according to CBS Houston. The credited answer — which Sands’s son did, in fact, select — was (B.) “Decisions we made in the United States have had negative effects on people elsewhere.”
Other possible answers were (A.) “Other people just don’t like Americans,” (C.) “Terrorists hate everyone,” and, of course, (D.) “None of the above.”



This is one of the quiz questions? Is this supposed to teach the facts of history?

It seems to me that students should be graded based on their retention and understanding of the course material. A question like this should have a more open-ended response, perhaps an essay question, but not multiple choice where students are compelled to pick the "right" answer - which is really nothing more than a vague opinion, not an actual historical fact.


I would agree with you, especially at the 5th-grade level. The causes for 9/11 are something that people with doctorates and extensive experience in international relations and related fields are unable to agree on. Not to mention that to just pick one would be flat-out wrong. In fact, you can make an argument for A, B, and C in the choices above to all have elements of truth.

Why was this being taught in a 5th-grade classroom instead of, oh, I don't know...the different branches of government (according to people at my local bar association meeting earlier this week, one of which heard it from Sandra Day O'Connor, 50% of high-school students don't know the three branches of government)? The answer to these sorts of questions is well beyond the ability of most 11-year-olds (I think the age is right?) to comprehend.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 11:04:00 AM   
cordeliasub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222

quote:

quote:

The third question on the controversial quiz was: “Why might the United States be a target for terrorism?” according to CBS Houston. The credited answer — which Sands’s son did, in fact, select — was (B.) “Decisions we made in the United States have had negative effects on people elsewhere.”
Other possible answers were (A.) “Other people just don’t like Americans,” (C.) “Terrorists hate everyone,” and, of course, (D.) “None of the above.”



This is one of the quiz questions? Is this supposed to teach the facts of history?

It seems to me that students should be graded based on their retention and understanding of the course material. A question like this should have a more open-ended response, perhaps an essay question, but not multiple choice where students are compelled to pick the "right" answer - which is really nothing more than a vague opinion, not an actual historical fact.


I would agree with you, especially at the 5th-grade level. The causes for 9/11 are something that people with doctorates and extensive experience in international relations and related fields are unable to agree on. Not to mention that to just pick one would be flat-out wrong. In fact, you can make an argument for A, B, and C in the choices above to all have elements of truth.

Why was this being taught in a 5th-grade classroom instead of, oh, I don't know...the different branches of government (according to people at my local bar association meeting earlier this week, one of which heard it from Sandra Day O'Connor, 50% of high-school students don't know the three branches of government)? The answer to these sorts of questions is well beyond the ability of most 11-year-olds (I think the age is right?) to comprehend.


not only that....but who decides which one of those answers was right? I mean, this isn't a case of "Who was our 16th president"?

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 11:55:55 AM   
DaNewAgeViking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

So, basically, it was blaming America.

Well - that's the fact. Terrorists hate America because of our support for Israel and Saudi Arabia, among other things. Truth is, we (they; I disown the crimes of the Bush regime, among others) have acted very high-handed around the world for a long time, and a lot of people have legitimate gripes about US policies. This is the same thing that happened to the 'Brutish' Empire, among others. If you Rightie foamers can't accept the facts, it doesn't alter reality.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 12:18:22 PM   
thompsonx


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Fr:
It sounds to me like they were trying to teach the truth but found it to be politically incorrect to do so.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 1:45:29 PM   
Level


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quote:

If you Rightie foamers can't accept the facts, it doesn't alter reality.


How... humerous.

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Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 2:02:02 PM   
theshytype


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FR-

I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea behind the question. I don't like how the question, or answer, was worded.
The question itself is probably better-suited for older students in an essay form. The answer is too vague and, in my mind, may lead 5th graders to believe it was America's fault for the 9/11 and any other terrorist attack. I don't know what's in the video or what was discussed in class, so I would have hoped the question was just an extremely brief summary of the whole discussion and would have asked my child to expand on the idea to make sure they understood.

I'm really paranoid when it comes to opinions being thrown at my kids and passed off as factual teaching. Particularly when it comes to election time in schools and they have mock elections.

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RE: What are they teaching? - 3/29/2013 2:45:24 PM   
FunCouple5280


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....Hmmm no....

How about this. Did US behavior make it a target for terrorist attacks? Yes. That is pretty easy to argue for. However, was all of that behavior intentionally negative. Arguably, No. Other than committing suicide or converting to a strict Islamic sect, is there anything you can do to please a terrorist? No. Finally, despite what the US goverment may have done, is that justifiable for attacks on US civilians and not goverment targets? No.

The issue with all of this is that the school boiled down a complex issue way too far. Then they spun to hard towards their own opinion and ignored the fact that experts disagree tremendously on this all over the political spectrum. Don't forget , 9-11 took place pre-W rampage. While the US has been mucking around in the Mid-East since the Barbary pirates, we weren't half involved as we are now. And as fas as support for Isreal is concerned, well that is a totally different argument with a big set of consequences outside of the rest.

This is beyond what anyone in fifth-grade should be debating. The where, when, who, how, and what is all that is important at that age. The why should be left till later in their education when they are less impressionable and more capable of debating the circumstances.

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