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Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/29/2013 9:28:06 PM

Nosathro

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Now for me I think the Army really screwed up on this one.

http://news.yahoo.com/army-formally-declines-purple-hearts-fort-hood-shooting-235520037.html

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/29/2013 9:33:41 PM

Level

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I understand waiting until his trial is over, but they're off base saying soldiers wounded here shouldnt qualify.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/29/2013 10:27:29 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Now for me I think the Army really screwed up on this one.

http://news.yahoo.com/army-formally-declines-purple-hearts-fort-hood-shooting-235520037.html

Of course not... it doesn't fit with The Administration's view that this was a domestic criminal action, not an act of war from an Islamic Terrorist.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/29/2013 10:30:37 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I understand waiting until his trial is over, but they're off base saying soldiers wounded here shouldn't qualify.

The honor and award of a Purple Heart is reserved for American Military Personal wounded by acts of war by enemy combatants. The Obama Administration does not view this as such ergo no Purple Hearts. The Army answers to the President.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/30/2013 8:31:49 AM

DomKen

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other attacks by US servicemen on their comrades did not rsult in purple hearts being awarded. Why should this be different?

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/30/2013 8:44:26 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Now for me I think the Army really screwed up on this one.

http://news.yahoo.com/army-formally-declines-purple-hearts-fort-hood-shooting-235520037.html

Of course not... it doesn't fit with The Administration's view that this was a domestic criminal action, not an act of war from an Islamic Terrorist.

Where do you get that asswipe from, you obviously havent any military experience whatsoever.

http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r600_8_22.pdf

Army regs, page 19-20 (only way to get one, and you get it by meeting specific criteria, there is no recommend or deny for any other reason (and its one of the only medals that you do not need a WAIVER FOR BEING OVERWEIGHT to get).

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/30/2013 8:55:45 AM

TheHeretic

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Just a little incident of workplace violence. Nothing to see here.

I disagree with the decision. Hasan chose to switch sides in the war on terror, and transformed himself into an enemy combatent. The better comparison is to the green on blue attacks in Afghanistan.

I do wish they would hurry up about trying and executing this piece of pigshit.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/30/2013 9:24:58 AM

Fightdirecto

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From the appropriate regulation:

quote:

2 - 8. Purple Heart
b. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States and per 10 USC 1131, effective 19 May 1998, is limited to members of the Armed Forces of the United States who, while serving under component authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded -
(1) In any action against an enemy of the United States.
(2) In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged.
(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.
(4) As the result of an act of any such enemy of opposing Armed Forces.
(5) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force.
(6) After 28 March 1973, AS THE RESULT OF AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST ATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OR A FOREIGN NATION FRIENDLY TO THE UNITED STATES, RECOGNIZED AS SUCH AN ATTACK BY THE SECRETARY OF ARMY, OR JOINTLY BY THE SECRETARIES OF THE SEPARATE ARMED SERVICES CONCERNED IF PERSONS FROM MORE THAN ONE SERVICE ARE WOUNDED IN THE ATTACK.

No competent individual or authority has determined or declared that the shootings at Fort Hood was part of an international terrorist attack. The determination appears to be that the shootings were the actions of one individual, not directly affiliated with any international terrorist group.

Those shot at Fort Hood, under military regulations, are in the same catagory as the two Marines recently killed by another Marine at Quantico Marine base Victims, gunman identified from Quantico Marine base shooting or the Marines killed or injured in this recent incident: 7 killed in explosion at Nevada Marine training exercise.

All tragic deaths and injuries, but none that qualify for the Purple Heart Medal.

I myself was shot in 1972 while on duty as a member of a joint U.S. Army/West German counter-intelligence team but because the person that shot me was an East German agent spying in West German who we were attempting to arrest, I did not qualify for the Purple Heart Medal. We were not AT WAR with East Germany.

< Message edited by Fightdirecto -- 3/30/2013 9:25:35 AM >

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/30/2013 9:37:48 AM

Nosathro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

From the appropriate regulation:

quote:

2 - 8. Purple Heart
b. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States and per 10 USC 1131, effective 19 May 1998, is limited to members of the Armed Forces of the United States who, while serving under component authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded -
(1) In any action against an enemy of the United States.
(2) In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged.
(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.
(4) As the result of an act of any such enemy of opposing Armed Forces.
(5) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force.
(6) After 28 March 1973, AS THE RESULT OF AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST ATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OR A FOREIGN NATION FRIENDLY TO THE UNITED STATES, RECOGNIZED AS SUCH AN ATTACK BY THE SECRETARY OF ARMY, OR JOINTLY BY THE SECRETARIES OF THE SEPARATE ARMED SERVICES CONCERNED IF PERSONS FROM MORE THAN ONE SERVICE ARE WOUNDED IN THE ATTACK.

No competent individual or authority has determined or declared that the shootings at Fort Hood was part of an international terrorist attack. The determination appears to be that the shootings were the actions of one individual, not directly affiliated with any international terrorist group.

Those shot at Fort Hood, under military regulations, are in the same catagory as the two Marines recently killed by another Marine at Quantico Marine base Victims, gunman identified from Quantico Marine base shooting or the Marines killed or injured in this recent incident: 7 killed in explosion at Nevada Marine training exercise.

All tragic deaths and injuries, but none that qualify for the Purple Heart Medal.

I myself was shot in 1972 while on duty as a member of a joint U.S. Army/West German counter-intelligence team but because the person that shot me was an East German agent spying in West German who we were attempting to arrest, I did not qualify for the Purple Heart Medal. We were not AT WAR with East Germany.

I can understand the Army regs on this. I also know that the Army can make exceptions to the regulations when they want. Further how many times have our government stated it's war on terrorism? Something else to consider.

Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism scholar and Georgetown University professor, told Gibbs that "I used to argue it was only terrorism if it were part of some identifiable, organized conspiracy... the nature of terrorism is changing, and Major Hasan may be an example of that.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/30/2013 10:16:18 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
Further how many times have our government stated it's war on terrorism? Something else to consider.

Well, when they actually declare war rather than just using bullshit emotive catchphrases, then we can discuss that as cause for giving servicemen who've been shot by a disgruntled colleague who owns a Koran a decoration. Until that happens, though, don't hold your breath. It isn't like they give DEA agents who've been winged by somebody from a cartel a purple heart, either.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/30/2013 10:25:56 AM

Nosathro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
Further how many times have our government stated it's war on terrorism? Something else to consider.

Well, when they actually declare war rather than just using bullshit emotive catchphrases, then we can discuss that as cause for giving servicemen who've been shot by a disgruntled colleague who owns a Koran a decoration. Until that happens, though, don't hold your breath. It isn't like they give DEA agents who've been winged by somebody from a cartel a purple heart, either.

FYI DEA Agents are not in the miltary.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 3/30/2013 1:24:20 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

other attacks by US servicemen on their comrades did not rsult in purple hearts being awarded. Why should this be different?

Cuz it`s the scurry Muslims......RUN!

For those who thinks that the President is secretly a Muslim terrorist sympathizer, who`s tricked us into electing a kenyancommiesocialist(you know,the sickest, most fucked up freaks in American politics today),the terrorist-coddling,enemy-within-lunatic-conspiracy wanking, isn`t all that far fetched....

And then there`s the ODS sufferers.......who`s world`s revolve around President Obama and where everything and every thought,revolves around President Obama....

Anyone who thinks the President`s involved(any president, past or future) in a decision like this needs to get out more.....catch a movie,go down the shore or some place else other than mom`s basement.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/30/2013 1:25:02 PM >

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 4/1/2013 8:31:09 PM

WebWanderer

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Yet another insignificant controversy about yet another insignificant issue... Let's say those soldiers get their Purple Hearts. Then what? Will it make the chronic pain from their wounds go away? Will their standard of living permanently go up by 10%? Will that small piece of metal inspire them to devote the rest of their lives to make the world a better place?

It's just a piece of metal.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 4/1/2013 8:55:56 PM

FelineRanger

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I am not the biggest fan of the police by any stretch. But would you call a police officer's shield just another piece of metal? Even I wouldn't because the shield stands for something greater. The medal itself is not the issue. The issue is the recognition that the servicemen and civilians were injured or killed by an agent of a foreign power that we are at war with. The phrasing "AS THE RESULT OF AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST ATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OR A FOREIGN NATION FRIENDLY TO THE UNITED STATES, RECOGNIZED AS SUCH AN ATTACK BY THE SECRETARY OF ARMY," actually does give the Army latitude to award the Purple Heart. The only justification I can think of for not making the award immediately is that the Army wants to establish ties between the shooter and al Qaida using rules of evidence and a guilty verdict. If that's what they intend, it's an odd way to go about justifying the award.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 4/2/2013 4:48:17 AM

Powergamz1

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The Army, having odd ways of going about things? That's just crazy talk...

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 4/2/2013 6:18:46 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

But would you call a police officer's shield just another piece of metal?

Yes.

quote:

AS THE RESULT OF AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST ATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OR A FOREIGN NATION FRIENDLY TO THE UNITED STATES, RECOGNIZED AS SUCH AN ATTACK BY THE SECRETARY OF ARMY,"

actually does give the Army latitude to award the Purple Heart.

What friendly foreign nation, or what international terrorist attack does Mr Nadal comprise? (you are assigning latitude to the wrong words).

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/2/2013 6:22:16 AM >

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 4/2/2013 7:00:38 AM

Fightdirecto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger
I am not the biggest fan of the police by any stretch. But would you call a police officer's shield just another piece of metal? Even I wouldn't because the shield stands for something greater. The medal itself is not the issue. The issue is the recognition that the servicemen and civilians were injured or killed by an agent of a foreign power that we are at war with.

Please cite what foreign power, that the United States is "at war" with, that this U. S. Army officer is/was an agent of, if you can.

quote:

The phrasing "AS THE RESULT OF AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST ATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OR A FOREIGN NATION FRIENDLY TO THE UNITED STATES, RECOGNIZED AS SUCH AN ATTACK BY THE SECRETARY OF ARMY," actually does give the Army latitude to award the Purple Heart.

Using your criteria, every military member who happened to be at the Murrah Federal Office Building in Oklahoma City, OK when Timothy McVeigh blew it up should also be posthumously/retroactively awarded the Purple Heart as they were injured or killed "AS THE RESULT OF AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST ATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES" (I'm sure someone in Timothy McVeigh's militia group was originally from some foreign country or his militia group got some money from some foreign White supremicist group.

)

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 4/2/2013 11:21:29 AM

papassion

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But we now know Major Hason had communications with known Taliban terrorists, a group we recognize as terrorists and fight against. His actions of shouting Islamic sayings and shooting US military personell prove he changed alligence to the Taliban and became a genuine Islamic terrorist. He meets all the legal definitions of a "terrorist."

The wounded servicemen rightly deserve the medal.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 4/2/2013 11:47:11 AM

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Do soldiers in the United States have an established right to receive decorations and honors, or is they awarded as a discretionary exercise by the appropriate military and civilian authorities?

Anyone here who thought he had any right to demand an honor or award would be held in great contempt.

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RE: Army will not grant Purple Hearts - 4/2/2013 6:10:38 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Now for me I think the Army really screwed up on this one.

http://news.yahoo.com/army-formally-declines-purple-hearts-fort-hood-shooting-235520037.html

Of course not... it doesn't fit with The Administration's view that this was a domestic criminal action, not an act of war from an Islamic Terrorist.

Where do you get that asswipe from, you obviously havent any military experience whatsoever.

http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r600_8_22.pdf

Army regs, page 19-20 (only way to get one, and you get it by meeting specific criteria, there is no recommend or deny for any other reason (and its one of the only medals that you do not need a WAIVER FOR BEING OVERWEIGHT to get).

What the hell are you babbling about this time?

Exactly what part of "The honor and award of a Purple Heart is reserved for American Military Personal wounded by acts of war by enemy combatants. The Obama Administration does not view this as such ergo no Purple Hearts. The Army answers to the President." Don't you understand?

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