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Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 6/23/2006 4:21:16 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-0606230147jun23,1,1119889.story?coll=cs-baseball-print

You know what I love about this story?  Ozzie's defense that in his native Venezuela, calling someone a "fag" isn't as offensive as it is here.  Oh, that and his comment that he has nothing against those people, he has gay friends, goes to WNBA games and has attended a Madonna concert.  I used to like Ozzie Guillen; now I think he's a moron and a homophobe.
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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 6/23/2006 5:27:03 AM   
TheHungryTiger


Posts: 454
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Status: offline 		Man are you ever going to be pissed when you find out that everyone in the united kingdom uses "fag" as a slang term for cigarette.

Remember boys and girls! Every single place on the planet that speaks English at all use the exact same expressions and figures of speech as we do here in the united states.

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 6/23/2006 6:54:11 AM   
stef


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Status: offline 		There's a world of difference between referring to a cigarette as a fag and a person as a fag, especially when it's just one of many insults in a string.

~stef

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 6/23/2006 2:22:11 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Well, aside from what stef just said: They don't use the word "fag" in Venezuela.  They use the word "maricon," and it means "fag."  He's wrong that it's not as offensive in Venezuela as it is here, but even if he were right--he's been living in the U.S. for over twenty years.  If he doesn't like the connotations of the word "fag" in the U.S., he's perfectly welcome to go back to Venezuela.

Anyway, it's not just his use of the word that I object to (ANYONE can say something stupid); his attempts to defend himself are even more offensive and only confirm that he really is a homophobe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHungryTiger

Man are you ever going to be pissed when you find out that everyone in the united kingdom uses "fag" as a slang term for cigarette.

Remember boys and girls! Every single place on the planet that speaks English at all use the exact same expressions and figures of speech as we do here in the united states.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 6/23/2006 2:23:18 PM >

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 6/23/2006 5:44:46 PM   
TheHungryTiger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Anyway, it's not just his use of the word that I object to (ANYONE can say something stupid);
And thats actualy the point I was trying to make also. Language is fluid. It changes from time to time, in difrent geographic locations, and even between people.

Compare it to the word "gay". 50 years ago the word had nothing at all to do with homosexuality. It just ment happy. And I see it gradualy changing again. Its becoming more and more an adjitive meanign "lame" or "bogus". (One of my favorite lines from the show The Simpsions is when Millhouse gets a girlfriend and one of the bullys says "Ick! He is kissing a girl. That is so gay") I fully expect that in the future people will be pointing out "hey, gay didnt always meen what it means today. Back at the start of the century it used to meen homosexual"

I can well understand someone using "fag" as a word for being a coward and honestly not meaning it about homosexuality at all. Heck, I have probably done it myself with the word "panzy". At some time or another I probably have used that word to describe someone without any backbone. But other people concider the word "panzy" to be a derogarty term for homosexuals. In such a case, trying to acuse me of being hateful toward homosexuality because I used the word "panzy" woudl be totaly retarted.

If you are offened by somethign I say, it may or may not be because I was trying to BE offensive.


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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 6/23/2006 8:14:53 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		What about the SECOND half of the sentence (which you left out when you quoted it)?

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 6/24/2006 3:05:16 AM   
TheHungryTiger


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Status: offline 		No no no! You did it all wrong .....

What you were supose to do was take the part where I said the situation was "totaly retarted" and use that to say I am being hateful toward people who are mentaly handicaped.


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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 6/25/2006 7:40:29 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Laughing...now he has John Rocker defending him:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2499926

I wouldn't be too surprised if Ozzie gets the axe before all is said and done.  He seems to have the same kind of obsession as Rocker with saying stupid things and defying the powerful people who try to get him to shut up.

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/6/2006 9:48:16 AM   
bondagemastertj


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Status: offline 		Lay off My boy Ozzie. He is no different than any of us. he speaks his mind. If you read and listen to Jay Mariotti, you would realize what a blowhard Mariotti is. You are judging him for his use of the word fag. Would you be if he used the same term he used in describing Magglio Ordonez, in which he called the former Sox outfielder a quote "Venezuelan piece of shit", after Ordonez mouthed off about Ozzie. Well, I got news for you--Oz is here to stay because he is a winner. Like it or dont youre just as guilty for judging Oz as the press was for judging Rocker then calling Rocker a redneck. I have been a long time fan of the Chicago White Sox and find ozzie to be a breath of fresh air. Who says you have to PC to be a manager. And this is the one group, which I am a proud member of, who shouldnt like anything that is PC. I have watched ozzie since he was a rookie in 84 and yes, he has more balls than brains. But how much shit is he supposed to take before he fires back. Mariotti constanstly refers to him as "the Blizzard of Oz, for one example. Mariotti wont go near Comiskey Park for fear of being jumped, he says. But let Me ask this. If someone verbally attacks you and you have the same temper as Ozzie and this guy who is attacking you is hiding behind something, you would call him nasty names too

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/6/2006 12:29:24 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		I stopped reading here.  How dare I judge John Rocker!  Racists have a right to speak their mind too.

(Of course they do, just not as employees of the Atlanta Braves.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bondagemastertj

Like it or dont youre just as guilty for judging Oz as the press was for judging Rocker then calling Rocker a redneck.

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/6/2006 3:25:01 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		You know what I love about this story and all the others like it?  People are still amazed that some people are stupid bigots.  Especially sports figures.  John Rocker's comments about NYC, Dennis Rodman's comments about Utah, and any other dumb jock that opens his mouth and immediately inserts his gym shoes.
 
When did sports figures become anymore than their athletic talents?  Granted not all of them are dumb as rocks but I'm more pleasantly surprised when someone that's famous because they have athletic ability exhibits some intelligence than the other way around.
 
Maybe I'm more realistic about their human nature than others, maybe I'm just jaded.  The same with any other celebrity, unless a person's fame and celebrity comes from being intelligent or holding a position that requires intelligence, I usually don't expect them to be so. 

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/6/2006 6:04:18 PM   
bondagemastertj


Posts: 26
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Status: offline 		let Me ask you something. Whats the difference in what Rocker said Jesse Jackson calling a US city "Hymietown". I wasnt defending Rocker per se, it was only to make a point. I was disappointed in the word that Ozzie used, but as I asked before what he called him something other than a fag. You sit and judge a guy without knowing any background material on it. What if someone judged you for a mistake in language if they didnt know the whole story behind you. I bet you would be fighting mad too

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/6/2006 6:06:08 PM   
bondagemastertj


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Status: offline 		and youre right. HOW DARE YOU JUDGE not just Rocker but anybody. Let those without sin cast the first stone

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/6/2006 7:19:37 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		I'm not a Christian.  If you really believe you don't judge anybody, you're living in a fantasy world.

And what part of the "background material" am I missing when it comes to Ozzie Guillen?  He's an idiot who thinks he can say whatever he wants because he hasn't had to pay for saying stupid things yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bondagemastertj

Let those without sin cast the first stone

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/7/2006 8:12:35 AM   
bondagemastertj


Posts: 26
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Mariotti has constantly called him out and ozzie just turned the other cheek for a long time. In a game against the Rangers one of their pitchers hit the Sox catcher twice and Ozzie demanded the Sox pitcher hit one of the Texas batters. he did not and was chewed out in the dugout for it. Mariotti called Ozzie a moron for chewing his pitcher out and demanding retribution. Mariotti has had a long standing feud with Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and has planted stories about how the neighborhood around Comiskey Park(where the Sox play home games) is unsafe and how the neighborhood around Wrigley Field(where the crosstown Cubs play) is safer. But in reality both neighborhood have their share of crime. Marriotti is constantly called Ozzie "the Blizzard of Oz" and is always saying what a bad manager he is. Well I ask who won the world series last year. So its a case of Ozzie just using the wrong word in a fit of anger, which is something we all have done. I mean, how you like it if a reporter wrote that you werent Christian and were dumb for it, even to the point of calling you a moron for it. I bet you would have a few choice words for him too. As for Ozzie's mouth, and I seem to be in the minority here, but I find it a breath of fresh air. He says stuff before thinking. Would I want My kid to hang out with him, probably not, but hes an athlete, not a role model. And besides, how many of us can say what we want to say and it not be in the press or on TV.

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/7/2006 10:27:18 AM   
Emperor1956


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quote:

When did sports figures become anymore than their athletic talents?  Granted not all of them are dumb as rocks but I'm more pleasantly surprised when someone that's famous because they have athletic ability exhibits some intelligence than the other way around.
 
Maybe I'm more realistic about their human nature than others, maybe I'm just jaded.  The same with any other celebrity, unless a person's fame and celebrity comes from being intelligent or holding a position that requires intelligence, I usually don't expect them to be so. 


Very well said, MissTress.  I've never understood why we assume that the ability to bat a ball (or throw one, or for that matter act in a movie or be a pro wrestler*) translates into either (a) moral superiority or (b) intellect.  Ozzie is a great manager; that's his talent.  He's not noticably smart, and surely he's not a socially adept person.

Of course there are thoughts that public figures shouldn't express publicly.  This is because it is bad for business.  We don't allow the John Rockers or Ozzie Guillens a forum to express racist, homophobic, etc. thoughts.  Gee...who'd have thought there was homophobia in professional sports?  *D'oh!*
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"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/7/2006 2:56:55 PM   
bondagemastertj


Posts: 26
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Status: offline 		Unfortunatley that is true---the problem is alot of kids look up to ozzie and thats the shame of it. No, Ozzie aint the quickest bulb on the lite brite but he is a good motivator of players. a modern day Bobby Knight if you will

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/7/2006 8:19:19 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		I wouldn't call him a "fag."  Ozzie has every right to express his opinions about a reporter he doesn't like; he just doesn't seem to understand--or want to understand--why he can't be the White Sox manager and ALSO use offensive language whenever he pleases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bondagemastertj

I mean, how you like it if a reporter wrote that you werent Christian and were dumb for it, even to the point of calling you a moron for it. I bet you would have a few choice words for him too.

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/7/2006 8:54:12 PM   
Morpheus07


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Status: offline 		Since when is calling someone a fag the worst crime in the world?

We all know that pro athletes are nothing more than well paid men who still think like high school jocks because they never had to grow up.

Doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me, why do you care so much? What ever happened to "sticks and stones..."

People are such pussies these days, not that pussy is a bad thing...

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RE: Ozzie Guillen not contrite - 7/7/2006 9:00:05 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		It's not.  If it were the worst crime in the world, he'd have been executed for it.

If I have to explain why a high-profile employee of a multi-million-dollar corporation cannot call people "fags" in public, I don't think we're going to have much of a conversation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morpheus07

Since when is calling someone a fag the worst crime in the world?

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