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Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 6:27:21 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		The average women's size in the US is a size 14, which should be the size sold most, right?

Wrong, it is the least sold size.

Now the fashion industry is really confusing. height 5'6" to 5'8" and a 34-24-34 figure. My girl friend during my freshman year in High School was bigger than that.

And these women wear a size 0 to a size four. ( how the fuck can you get a size 0? 0 means nothing, at least in math.)

Here is the information.

Then there is this If Barbie were a real person, she would be 6' 0", weigh 100 lbs., and wear a size 4. Her measurements would be 39"/21"/33".
Also, She would not be able to menstruate, hold up her back and neck, would have to crawl on all fours due to her legs and feet, and would have many medical problems.

36-18-33
There was actually a study done by both Yale and Duke Universities to answer that type of question. "Using hip measurements as a constant, calculations were made to determine the changes necessary for a young, healthy adult woman ... to attain the same body proportions as Barbie... Among the changes necessary were for the female to increase 24 in. in height, 5 in. in the chest, and 3.2 in. in neck length, while decreasing 6 in. in the waist." Since the average 20-year-old American woman is 5 ft. 4.5 inches tall, Barbie would have to be at least 7'4".

\
So there are two opinions about Barbie, both unrealistic.

Then there are niche models that go to extremes to pass for much younger girls, and I am not referring to the nudes, I am referring to fashion, glamor and art models.

So my questions are:

Who the fuck is the fashion industry trying to sell clothes to?
Can a woman actually be healthy at a size 0 to size four?
And finally, if the average American woman is a size 14, why dont they buy a size 14?

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 6:58:40 AM   
searching4mysir


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quote:

Can a woman actually be healthy at a size 0 to size four?


Depending on height, yes she can. My niece is a size 0 or 2. She has a more athletic build (she used to play soccer) and she is about 5'2".


Here's the thing: Most sizing is BS. A size 4 with one designer is the same as a size 0 with another. Each designer cuts their clothes a little differently (some are more generous through the bust, some more generous through the hips/thighs, etc.)

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 7:33:05 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Then there are niche models that go to extremes to pass for much younger girls, and I am not referring to the nudes, I am referring to fashion, glamor and art models.

So my questions are:

Who the fuck is the fashion industry trying to sell clothes to?
Can a woman actually be healthy at a size 0 to size four?
And finally, if the average American woman is a size 14, why dont they buy a size 14?


Actually part of the problem is that fashion models ARE often very young girls. It's not uncommon for a lot of high-fashion shoots and catwalks to feature girls in their early teens. They have the desirable (in that industry) slight frames, very low body fat, small hips etc that very very few adult women can attain.

Yes women can be healthy at size 0 to 4, but a size 0 woman at 5 feet tall is more realistic and healthy than a size zero woman at six feet tall.

A size 4 in the US is a size 8 in the UK and pretty normal if slender.

Then there is the whole sizing nonsense - even within the same store, the same size can vary greatly. And most women don't follow the same proportions as the standard sizes - she might have the hips for size 12, the boobs for size 14 etc. In addition to this there is a LOT of vanity sizing going on. The whole nonsense about 'Marilyn Monroe was a size 14' is only true if you account for the fact that a size 14 in her time was MUCH smaller than a current size 14. So what you see as a 'standard' size 14 listed is probably labelled as a 12 in the stores. I can't find the blog right now but someone did an unofficial experiment in which they had women measure their trousers, and found that while the length was generally as advertised, the waist was typically 1-3 inches bigger than listed. And you can see why. Women are taught that their clothing size is somehow a measure of them as a person, and so naturally some women will be more likely to frequent a store in which they fit in smaller sizes because it makes them feel good.

And then lastly, 'average' is not always the same as 'most common'. If you lined up 8 women with sizes 2, 8, 8, 10, 14, 16, 18, 20 you would get the average size of 12, even though not one of them actually wears that size.

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 8:22:13 AM   
itsapixie


Posts: 54
Joined: 9/11/2012
Status: offline 		Who the fuck is the fashion industry trying to sell clothes to?
The fashion industry is a joke. It's rarely meant to be practical. They aren't selling clothes, they're selling an image and idea.

Can a woman actually be healthy at a size 0 to size four?
Absolutely. I'm 25, and a size 0 is too big for me. I'm a little over 5 foot tall. I've always been very small. My daughter is almost 15 months old and is just now able to wear clothes for a 6 month old. Neither one of us is bony or sickly looking. We are both completely healthy and eat well, just small.

I also don't understand how a 6 foot girl can wear a size zero. All zeros I have seen are way too short for anyone taller than me. I've also never seen a size zero in the WOMEN's department. Only in the juniors... But then I suppose a girl that's six foot tall wouldn't shop where I shop :/

And finally, if the average American woman is a size 14, why dont they buy a size 14?
I agree with Athena. Average does not mean most common.

Why do people feel the need to compare Barbie to a real person? Poor Barbie. It's a doll. She wasn't mean to be an accurate representation of a woman's figure. I never compared my body to Barbie's anymore than I did to my Cabbage Patch. Barbie was cool because she had a jeep and her house had an elevator. AN ELEVATOR.

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 8:22:22 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
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quote:

Who the fuck is the fashion industry trying to sell clothes to?
They are trying to sell to all women, but mostly Women who hate themselves, those who fluctuate sizes, those who eat/vomit, those that don't eat, or no more than vegetables, and finally those that utilize different drugs to get small. Latest trend among some friends, is buying the previously outlawed phen phen on the street to use, and using monster drinks to go hard at the gym. I know a couple of young people who have had palpitations, heart failure, and one a devastating heart attack, after which he can no longer be state police, because of drining monster, after long work hours, than going to work out. He is slim, but disabled.

quote:

Can a woman actually be healthy at a size 0 to size four?
Yes, they can, and naturally so. I have a few people with ?high metabolism in my family, who eat, and are naturally size 2-4; when this one god daughter of mine, stresses/loses weight, she becomes a size 0.

quote:

And finally, if the average American woman is a size 14, why dont they buy a size 14?
I think people do buy size 14, but as most people don't want to be the size they are, by diet or wearing inappropriate clothing, some 14s buy size 12 (to wear tightly/hope to lose weight), and some buy size 16 for more comfort.
I think that women with natural curves are beautiful; so why chase a specific number, if you don't have a huge stomach, legs, and arse? I think naturally thin people are beautiful as well.

It saddens me when I read, that a mature, strong actress thinks, and lives with these impossible standards:
quote:

The Boogie Nights star claims that she survives on a diet of “cereal and granola bars” and is “constantly hungry.”

“I hate dieting. I hate having to do it to be the “right” size. I’m hungry all the time.”

“I think I’m a slender person” she adds. “But the industry apparently doesn’t. All actresses are hungry all the time, I think.”
Why do women put up with this chit? We do we allow crazy people, who think a woman ought to have the body of a 15year old boy, maybe with a couple of little breast implants for good measure, create the standard by which all women "should" live. I'm even sick of Michelle Obama, having her husband on such a tight diet, that his face is falling from looking like a hungry Ethiopian from the comercials (as a comedian said). M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 4/4/2013 8:43:52 AM >

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 8:28:21 AM   
Domcouple123


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/25/2012
Status: offline 		I'm naturally just a size 1. When I stress, I go down to a 0 or a 00. I do agree that idealizing a thin body is ridiculous. We should celebrate women of all sizes and shapes. I do, however, get peeved when people refer to curvy women as "real women." I'm a real woman. And my curves may be small, but they're there! lol

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 9:01:44 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Clothing sizes have changed a lot: when I was in my 20s and weighed around 130 I was a size 14.
The year before last (25-30 years later), I lost some weight and was a size 14 once again and weighed around 170.

There were no size zeros when I was in my 20s.
Now clothing sizes are tied into "vanity sizing", hence what used to be a size 6-8 is probably a 2-4... and possibly (depending on the manufacturer less.

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 9:05:29 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		Agreed, I think naturally thin is beautiful, as well as curvaceous/thicker ladies. I hope I've never said only bigger women are real. I do know about "real women" advertisement, but I feel it's fair game, given all of the focus on being miniature, when the VAST majority of women are bigger than size 12. M

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 10:02:09 AM   
JeffBC


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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Can a woman actually be healthy at a size 0 to size four?

Yes. Percentage of body fat, of course, is only one predictor of overall health. But the general range I've heard for women is 20-30% body fat. Averaging that out to 25% puts Carol in a size 4-ish sort of range. At that weight she doesn't look even remotely emaciated or "pixie like" or whatever other word you'd want to use. She's a curvy woman with D cups and hips. 25% body fat does give her a flat stomach although not even remotely "ripped". There's still a soft padding all the way around.

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 10:06:49 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		First of all women buy lots of clothes, and they have a really confusing system of measurement.  Not like us, 35 waist and 31 inseam, dick to the left (dress left) and millions of megatons of moulten meat..(I didnt like the package size on the old Hash Jeans, although I did like the style, they had no room to Mrs. Melby's kissing cousin to rest in)  they get fucked up sizes.

So, if one jean is a size 10 lets say, and another is a size 10 they have to actually try them on, ask does their ass look fat (yes it does or I wouldnt be with you, dear)  because they aint the same size 10.

And they may wear 10 all day, but only this years size 12 will fit them.

DON'T GET INVOLVED IN WOMENS SIZES UNLESS YOU ARE A GASH, YOURSELF.  IT WILL END YOUR LIFE!!!! 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/4/2013 10:08:13 AM >

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 10:20:16 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Fashion is just image, it has no basis in reality. Most magazines airbrush the heck out of what we see, perfection abounds. No one has flaws and lord.. if they do they are chided in print. Don't eat, don't bend so you show a small bit of fat around your tummy or thighs. Don't be.. ordinary. Sizes change for the sake of vanity.

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 10:30:53 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


And finally, if the average American woman is a size 14, why dont they buy a size 14?

If you have 100 women sized 12 and 100 women sized 16 why would any of them buy a size 14? Average does not equal "most'.

As obesity rates rise, so will the average and when it gets to be too much to the point it starts affecting sales, the fashion industry will once again change their sizes to stroke the vanity of females and what is now a size 20 may well become a size 14 in the future in the same way a size 8 now used to be a size 12.



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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 10:33:16 AM   
OsideGirl


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Clothing sizes have changed a lot



Yes, they have. In high school, at 36-27-38, I was a size 12. Now that is a size 8 or 10, depending on the cut.

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 11:09:52 AM   
Domcouple123


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/25/2012
Status: offline 		Oh you absolutely did NOT say that and I don't think anyone HERE did either. It's just something I see ALL. THE. TIME. And it's annoying. I'm real, dammit! lol

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 11:48:58 AM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		And some men wonder why some women have to try everything on. I don't typically have a problem with sizing being different, but there's only few brands I'll purchase. My main problem is with length. I have long legs and certain jeans are much shorter than others. Wash them once and it looks like I'm expecting the next flood to come in. Stick to the same brands, I already know how they're going to look and fit.

Sometimes, clothes look great on a hanger. Then you try it on, crinkle your nose, and take it off as quickly as possible hoping to quickly forget what you just saw in the mirror. A model is the hanger. It seems to me, they're trying to sell the image of how an article of clothing looks on the model. Almost selling "if you put this on, you'll look like her". Of course, not all body types are created equally and clothing shouldn't be either.

Usually, a woman reaches a certain point in her life where she's not so much paying attention to the model and has a pretty good idea what's going to work for her body. So, I believe their major targeted audience are younger, more impressionable women.

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 12:12:30 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		There is no 'average' for me. I am big and my size varies depending on the designer. I wear size 4X tops because of my breast size. 3X pants are loose on me. Lizard can wear 14 and she is about 180 (Mom gave her a bunch of clothes a few months ago).

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 5:46:38 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The average women's size in the US is a size 14, which should be the size sold most, right?

Wrong, it is the least sold size.

Now the fashion industry is really confusing. height 5'6" to 5'8" and a 34-24-34 figure. My girl friend during my freshman year in High School was bigger than that.

And these women wear a size 0 to a size four. ( how the fuck can you get a size 0? 0 means nothing, at least in math.)

Here is the information.

Then there is this If Barbie were a real person, she would be 6' 0", weigh 100 lbs., and wear a size 4. Her measurements would be 39"/21"/33".
Also, She would not be able to menstruate, hold up her back and neck, would have to crawl on all fours due to her legs and feet, and would have many medical problems.

36-18-33
There was actually a study done by both Yale and Duke Universities to answer that type of question. "Using hip measurements as a constant, calculations were made to determine the changes necessary for a young, healthy adult woman ... to attain the same body proportions as Barbie... Among the changes necessary were for the female to increase 24 in. in height, 5 in. in the chest, and 3.2 in. in neck length, while decreasing 6 in. in the waist." Since the average 20-year-old American woman is 5 ft. 4.5 inches tall, Barbie would have to be at least 7'4".

\
So there are two opinions about Barbie, both unrealistic.

Then there are niche models that go to extremes to pass for much younger girls, and I am not referring to the nudes, I am referring to fashion, glamor and art models.

So my questions are:

Who the fuck is the fashion industry trying to sell clothes to?
Can a woman actually be healthy at a size 0 to size four?
And finally, if the average American woman is a size 14, why dont they buy a size 14?


Hahahahahahaha...oh, Grasshopper.....you didn't do enough research (and women will back me up on this one).....manufacturers of women's clothing know this (all that you said above) and they "re-size" their clothing to accommodate women who want to believe they're a size 10 when they're in fact a size 14.

Which, by the way....is EXACTLY why men can NEVER simply go into a woman's closet, check a few labels and "get it right" because.....

You can NEVER get it right.

Which is why, whenever I buy a woman something, I always include the receipt and then buy at LEAST 4 sizes too small, then when they tell me "I can't fit into this!" I tell them...."well honey, that's the way you look to me!" and then tell them..."well hon, just go get what you want...they have all kinds of cool stuff there".

They have an excuse to go shopping (which I fucking HATE), they know I won't give a rats ass what they get ('cause they'll look great no matter what they choose)....and most importantly, I'm not only off the hook....I just told her without saying one damn word...."you look beautiful to me honey".

Everyone wins :)

(I win more :) )

Shopping for wimmens is sooooo easy :)

You're a man. The deck is stacked against you in about 9 katrillion ways as to women....understanding women's clothing sizes is 8.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 katrillion of those.

(Don't try).


< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 4/4/2013 5:48:52 PM >

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 5:50:44 PM   
Spiritedsub2


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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 6:31:57 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Damn you're good (albeit a bit Machiavellian)!


The Prince....one of my top 3 all time favorite books :)

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RE: Now I am confused... - 4/4/2013 6:55:09 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Then there is this If Barbie were a real person, she would be 6' 0", weigh 100 lbs., and wear a size 4. Her measurements would be 39"/21"/33".
Also, She would not be able to menstruate, hold up her back and neck, would have to crawl on all fours due to her legs and feet, and would have many medical problems.

36-18-33
There was actually a study done by both Yale and Duke Universities to answer that type of question. "Using hip measurements as a constant, calculations were made to determine the changes necessary for a young, healthy adult woman ... to attain the same body proportions as Barbie... Among the changes necessary were for the female to increase 24 in. in height, 5 in. in the chest, and 3.2 in. in neck length, while decreasing 6 in. in the waist." Since the average 20-year-old American woman is 5 ft. 4.5 inches tall, Barbie would have to be at least 7'4".

\
So there are two opinions about Barbie, both unrealistic.




There is a reason that Barbie is sized so strangely. First off, she really is not meant to be seen without her clothes. Second, when she was created they had to size her that way because of the materials available for making her outfits. If they had sized her to represent nekkie what an actual female would look like, anytime you had clothes on her she would look like she had a tire around her middle. They just did not have the technology to make ultra thin material to use for her outfits. In recent years they have been re-doing Barbie's body.

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