Have it Your Way....

Have it Your Way.... (Full Version)

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Yachtie -> Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 10:41:51 AM)
at Burger King[:D] It was at the height of lunch time, about 1 p.m., when a would-be robber walked into a Burger King, flashed his gun at one of the family diners, and demanded the diner fork over money and valuables, police said in a CBS report. The robber was exiting when the father, who feared for his and his family’s life, CBS said, took out his own gun and shot the suspect in the leg. Guess he wanted lead, to go[8D] He should feel lucky it wasn't supersized[;)]

Nosathro -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 11:41:11 AM)
Well it happen in Florida so what do you expect. But the one I really like is Martinez, one of the cars he shot had children in it. http://freakoutnation.com/2013/02/28/gun-nut-goes-vigilante-at-walmart-opens-fire-in-pursuit-of-a-shoplifter/ Then I don't go to Burger King anyway. They don't serve steak.

vincentML -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 1:45:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie at Burger King[:D] It was at the height of lunch time, about 1 p.m., when a would-be robber walked into a Burger King, flashed his gun at one of the family diners, and demanded the diner fork over money and valuables, police said in a CBS report. The robber was exiting when the father, who feared for his and his family’s life, CBS said, took out his own gun and shot the suspect in the leg. Guess he wanted lead, to go[8D] He should feel lucky it wasn't supersized[;)] The Miami Herald report says they stopped at a gas station because they ran out of gas. Not very bright, were they? On the other hand the shooter felt threatened while the robber was escaping? [8\|]

MizzSpitfire -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 1:57:42 PM)
vincent, are you saying YOU wouldn't experience fear if an armed gunman invaded an eaterie where YOUR family was dining?

hlen5 -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 2:04:10 PM)
I think Vincent's point was that it was post-burglary. The perp was leaving when he was shot.

MizzSpitfire -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 2:11:13 PM)
I realize that, hlen, but unless it can be proved the man did NOT fear for his life or his family's, I believe his reaction was justified.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 2:13:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie at Burger King[:D] It was at the height of lunch time, about 1 p.m., when a would-be robber walked into a Burger King, flashed his gun at one of the family diners, and demanded the diner fork over money and valuables, police said in a CBS report. The robber was exiting when the father, who feared for his and his family’s life, CBS said, took out his own gun and shot the suspect in the leg. Guess he wanted lead, to go[8D] He should feel lucky it wasn't supersized[;)] The Miami Herald report says they stopped at a gas station because they ran out of gas. Not very bright, were they? On the other hand the shooter felt threatened while the robber was escaping? [8\|] According to the article, he had already robbed at least one person already that day. You'd think he would have filled his tank after the first robbery.

vincentML -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 2:22:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MizzSpitfire I realize that, hlen, but unless it can be proved the man did NOT fear for his life or his family's, I believe his reaction was justified. This takes us back to Zimmerman/Martin, MizzS. The "stand your ground law" puts the burden on the shooter. I would not wish to be this shooter defending firing a weapon at a fleeing felon and claiming fear of life. It would be laughed out of court I think. Even many "castle" laws do not support that action.

DomKen -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 2:37:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MizzSpitfire I realize that, hlen, but unless it can be proved the man did NOT fear for his life or his family's, I believe his reaction was justified. Since the robber was leaving it was felonius assault and battery with a deadly weapon. In a sane society both robber and gunman would do long stretches in prison.

subrob1967 -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 2:44:07 PM)
Hold the pickle, hold the lead... Special order? Now I'm sad, I just got shot, in the leg, at Burger King! Article doesn't say if the entrance wound was on the front, or the rear of his leg, therefore we don't know if the robber was still facing the man or not. The robber could have been walking out backward to make sure they weren't being followed. If he was facing the guy, distance doesn't matter, the family of the shooter was still under threat. If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified.

hlen5 -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 2:47:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MizzSpitfire I realize that, hlen, but unless it can be proved the man did NOT fear for his life or his family's, I believe his reaction was justified. I don't disagree with you at all, but we don't have enough info from the article to really know one way or the other.

muhly22222 -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 3:39:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: MizzSpitfire I realize that, hlen, but unless it can be proved the man did NOT fear for his life or his family's, I believe his reaction was justified. This takes us back to Zimmerman/Martin, MizzS. The "stand your ground law" puts the burden on the shooter. I would not wish to be this shooter defending firing a weapon at a fleeing felon and claiming fear of life. It would be laughed out of court I think. Even many "castle" laws do not support that action. Every self-defense case puts the burden on the shooter, because it's an affirmative defense. Basically, the shooter is arguing, "Yeah, I committed the crime, but I was justified in doing so." What the stand-your-ground law does is it removes any duty to retreat. In many states (Ohio included), people have a duty to retreat if they can do so safely prior to using deadly force, although a number of states also have so-called "castle laws," which remove that duty when the defendant was in their own home and/or car. Thus, the shooter here did not have any duty to retreat, but he still has to prove that he had a reasonable fear of some imminent bodily harm to him or somebody else in the restaurant. There are a number of factors that will determine the outcome of this case. For instance, if the robber was leaving the restaurant, but he was backing out and waving his gun around, that fear is much more reasonable than if the robber had put his gun back in his pocket, turned around, and was running outside.

Yachtie -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 3:58:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified. I'd acquit. [:D]

lovmuffin -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 4:01:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Since the robber was leaving it was felonius assault and battery with a deadly weapon. In a sane society both robber and gunman would do long stretches in prison. That may be true and I don't necessarily condone his actions yet if I'm on that jury he would get a pass.

SadistDave -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 4:06:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified. I'd acquit. [:D] I'd give him a medal... -SD-

TheHeretic -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 4:37:00 PM)
Not much information in there, really. At least this dumbass armed robber won't be pointing guns at anyone else for a little while. I suppose we could still speculate that the news would serve as a warning to others of like mind, but if they never saw Pulp Fiction, I doubt they'd catch this either.

subrob1967 -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 5:10:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified. I'd acquit. [:D] In Texas? I'm gonna guess there won't even be charges brought.

vincentML -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 5:30:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified. I'd acquit. [:D] In Texas? I'm gonna guess there won't even be charges brought. Miami. And actually there has been one recent case in Texas, maybe two, that went against the shooter. So, don't be so certain.

vincentML -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 5:34:03 PM)
quote: There are a number of factors that will determine the outcome of this case. For instance, if the robber was leaving the restaurant, but he was backing out and waving his gun around, that fear is much more reasonable than if the robber had put his gun back in his pocket, turned around, and was running outside. Well sure. He could have been retreating and firing his weapon as well. But none of that was reported to be the case. In Florida, if I remember right, the shooter doesn't have to be in his home or car, only lawfully in a public place. I guess we will have to wait to see where the wound was.[:)]

muhly22222 -> RE: Have it Your Way.... (4/8/2013 5:39:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: There are a number of factors that will determine the outcome of this case. For instance, if the robber was leaving the restaurant, but he was backing out and waving his gun around, that fear is much more reasonable than if the robber had put his gun back in his pocket, turned around, and was running outside. Well sure. He could have been retreating and firing his weapon as well. But none of that was reported to be the case. In Florida, if I remember right, the shooter doesn't have to be in his home or car, only lawfully in a public place. I guess we will have to wait to see where the wound was.[:)] That's what I was saying. Neither situation was reported. In fact, no situation was reported other than some dude was armed (it doesn't even say that he had a gun...it could have been a knife), told a person to give him money and valuables, and got shot "as he was leaving," which could mean any number of things. That's right, from what I understand of Florida law (I'm not a Florida lawyer), there is no duty to retreat, even when it can be done safely. However, the shooter would still need to have a reasonable apprehension of death or serious bodily injury to use deadly force (firing a gun is always deadly force). Did he here? I don't know. None of us do, unless somebody happened to be in that restaurant.

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