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Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge to su... - 4/11/2013 10:10:42 AM   
instigated


Posts: 7
Joined: 4/2/2013
Status: offline 		I got an email and part of it said - How do you keep your sub nature from showing up during your daily interactions at school? Do you have to fight the urge to submit?

Completely confusing. Who am I supposed to be submitting to at school aside from the rules that I agreed to when I accepted enrollment?

I can't help but think of a submissive woman I met once (in person) who ran her own company that pulled in half a million annually in profit. How did she keep her submissive nature from showing? She... got shit done and carried on with business until she got home.

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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 10:22:10 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		The confusion is that you and the other person are using different definitions of "submissive".

Submissive by personality trait: This is Carol. It's what I call "socially submissive" because it's just a fact of how she sees the world. It has nothing to do with her being my wife or my slave. She submits as a default course of action pretty much everywhere -- within limits.

Submissive by relationship role: This is what you're talking about. IT's the classic thing of a dominant personality choosing to submit for reasons of their own within the context of their primary relationship. The classic example is the high-powered male exec who submits at home.

Submissive by sexual orientation: Different than either of the two above. This is the "bottom" in a sexual relationship... it's the person who wants to be taken rather than the person who wants to take.

The person who asked you that question was "submissive by personality trait" and the answer to her question is, 'You cannot be anyone other than yourself. But there's no reason that submitting as a life survival strategy doesn't work out fine. What's your specific problem at school?"

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to instigated)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 10:38:23 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Jeff was pretty much dead on.

I'm only submissive when I come up against someone who is more dominant than I am. I'm not a naturally submissive personality, until I get to that person.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 10:45:20 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		I think I understand the question and what Jeff wrote. Using those two as contexts; have you ever seen a person who identifies as submissive who has children that run rough-shod over them?

There are people that just do not take a stand for themselves. Have you ever seen someone who takes aninordinate amount of crap from their employer that you would never tolerate? When you ask them why, their answer isn't: "My boss is a good person" or "My boss gave me a chance, when no one else would". It's usually as simple as: "I don't know".

They don't know. It's simple how they enter the world; whether it be a desire to not cause waves and to please everyone (ACOA) or just their view of life in general or, even, fear. Yes, fear. There are some people who are so scared to death of standing up for themselves that they will endure almost anything rather than spark a confrontation.

The people whom I just described do "cross over" into our lifestyle because it just seems natural to them. I have known quite a few and my main concern is that they are prime targets for some of the true "predators"; the misogynists and misandrists(?) that manage to "hide out" in our society.

I would be very concerned for this person that sent you that note and I would try to delve a little deeper and see if they are the kind of person who could truly be served by having a mentor; someone to make sure that they are not a "victim-waiting-to-happen".



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 10:47:13 AM   
instigated


Posts: 7
Joined: 4/2/2013
Status: offline 		I consider my personality to be submissive in general. I'm still confused by who I'm supposed to be submitting to at school, though. I am paying someone to teach me. I don't see it as appropriate to languish at a professors feet and beg them to do their job because they have power over me.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 10:56:00 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm more like Carol. However, I use my brain to judge whether or not I ought to be submitting to someone. If I decide they aren't as smart, don't have the right thinking, don't have the standards I require - then I overrule my basic desires.

In just the same way that I ate chicken and zucchini last night instead of going straight to the German Chocolate Ice Cream I bought which really does call my name.

Being an adult, I can judge what is or is not appropriate. The cost is that it takes a lot of energy for me to be the leader. So then I don't have much left for social interactions or extra projects.

I've known several CEOs btw and a couple of heads of state (admittedly small states), some were classic dominants, my way or the highway. But others were just really charming people who got along great with clients. If you have a choice of buying your widgets from four different companies, all of whom are competitively priced, wouldn't you prefer to do business with the one you enjoy talking to the most?

The ones who were not classic take no prisoner types had someone in the office who did the firing when necessary. So they didn't have to be the bad guy.

So your business owning submissive probably has someone else to be the hatchet man, and she has a good product and other people enjoyed going to lunch with her and dealing with her more with than the sharpie from the competing firm. It's a mistake to believe that all people in one position are the same. They aren't.

Submissive doesn't mean roll over dead with a sign saying Walk On Me.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 11:34:12 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: instigated

I got an email and part of it said - How do you keep your sub nature from showing up during your daily interactions at school? Do you have to fight the urge to submit?

Completely confusing. Who am I supposed to be submitting to at school aside from the rules that I agreed to when I accepted enrollment?

I can't help but think of a submissive woman I met once (in person) who ran her own company that pulled in half a million annually in profit. How did she keep her submissive nature from showing? She... got shit done and carried on with business until she got home.




I think the person who sent you the email does not understand that for most people there is a certain specificity to submission, either involving the person we are submitting to or the circumstance of our submission.


(Thankfully!) the vast majority of us do not go around throwing our submission around, grovelling at the feet of whoever happens to be walking by.
Somehow we manage to restrain ourselves and "offer" (for lack of a better word) our submissive natures to someone who actually wishes to receive it.

Specificity for me, is what makes submission to [my] Master special.


I think the person who sent you the email needs to read better fiction.


_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 11:46:29 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: instigated
I consider my personality to be submissive in general. I'm still confused by who I'm supposed to be submitting to at school, though. I am paying someone to teach me. I don't see it as appropriate to languish at a professors feet and beg them to do their job because they have power over me.

If it helps any, the other way I describe Carol is "submissive by default". What that means is she doesn't need a reason to submit to someone. She submits to EVERYONE. That is what "default" means. She needs a reason to NOT submit to someone. If you're thinking in terms of "who you should submit to" then you're in the other side of the fence... "dominant by default".

I agree with you. I'd like to know what the specific situation or situations are which are causing problems. Yup, it is possible to be a "high-functioning doormat" (another way I describe Carol). But I can tell you from bitter experience that trying to tell a default-sub that they should just be more dominant only causes harm. What you need to do is understand their viewpoint and that they are NOT dominant and then work within those constructs.

Ask your friend this... "In what way is your sub nature that shows up in daily interactions in school causing you a problem? Can you provide one or more specific examples?" If they answer, I'd be happy to take a look at the answer assuming that's fine with them and you.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to instigated)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 12:52:27 PM   
muhly22222


Posts: 463
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: instigated

I consider my personality to be submissive in general. I'm still confused by who I'm supposed to be submitting to at school, though. I am paying someone to teach me. I don't see it as appropriate to languish at a professors feet and beg them to do their job because they have power over me.


In this analogy, the school is clearly a findomme and is raping your wallet, so you submit to the institution (I don't have a problem with findommes, just that particular phrase...and I'm only making a joke, anyway).

It sounds like a fantasist to me, honestly.

And, since nobody else has done it yet:



I told you that you should come check the boards out!

_____________________________

I have always been among those who believed that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking.
-Woodrow Wilson

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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 3:07:51 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: instigated

I consider my personality to be submissive in general. I'm still confused by who I'm supposed to be submitting to at school, though. I am paying someone to teach me. I don't see it as appropriate to languish at a professors feet and beg them to do their job because they have power over me.



You submit to their authority. If they say a five page essay is due Friday at midnight you don't send in a two pager on Sunday afternoon. Because if you do, the punishment is only receiving half the points you would have earned.

Hell, I don't sit at The Man's feet begging him to dominate me. But when he tells me to get him some tea, I do so.

When you get stopped for sliding through a stop sign, you submit to the police officer's authority. Not the individual officer who pulled you over.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to instigated)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 3:50:01 PM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		I agree with what Jeff said and in part of what Michael said.  

I happen to be all three of the submissive types Jeff listed.  I don't usually stand up for myself.  I avoid confrontation to the best of my ability and want to please EVERYONE.  I'm a very laid-back person and like the people around me to be the same.  As a perfectionist, I take it extremely personal when I can't please someone.   I can understand how wonderful this all looks to a predator.  
(Fortunately for me, I'm not an easy target.  Having great common sense and a fair amount of cynicism goes a long way.)

All this does not mean I never fight a fight to protect myself. I will if need-be.  It just takes quite a bit to push my buttons.  I still get stuff done because I HAVE to.  I'd let my kids walk all over me if I thought they'd turn out okay and if it didn't upset my husband.  At school, if I fully respected a professor, I'd never second-guess him.  I have only stood up for myself at work twice and for good reason.  Yes, I'm a functioning submissive. 

That was all probably way too much information needed, but I somewhat understand the question.  What I don't understand is what problem this would cause in school or why any submissive traits would need to be hidden.  I always thought the trait was desirable to teachers.  As far as motive, without more context, I don't know. 

(in reply to muhly22222)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 3:58:50 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I'm only submissive when I come up against someone who is more dominant than I am. I'm not a naturally submissive personality, until I get to that person.


What she said...

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 4:14:37 PM   
KaruSF


Posts: 16
Joined: 7/19/2012
Status: offline 		so many people, even those in the life, seem to think that being submissive is a Bad Thing.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 4:24:01 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype
I happen to be all three of the submissive types Jeff listed.

How interesting.

I wonder how strong those statistical correlations are. I do not at all assume that someone who is in one of those categories must also be in any of the others Nor do I assume that someone who is strong in one category is necessarily strong in any of the others. In fact, I have those three categories as entirely orthogonal in my head. It does make me wonder though if they are really totally unrelated or would you find some correlations if you had access to appropriate data.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to theshytype)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 4:44:21 PM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if I were a rarity (and I don't mean as in I'm a special snowflake way), I was already born with a few not-too-incredibly common traits, why not add a few more.

I think it's entirely possible for one person to somewhat or strongly relate to just one, and others to somewhat or strongly relate to two or three. Because of that, I'm assuming they're not directly correlated. Speaking statistically, I'd be interested in that.

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 5:10:14 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KaruSF
so many people, even those in the life, seem to think that being submissive is a Bad Thing.

Actually, that's why I half-jokingly say:

"The only thing not allowed in BDSM is dominance and submission"

In the end though, without more details on the exact problem we can all only speculate. I mean, for all I know the sub has a hot teacher that makes him/her want to submit sexually. That seems unlikely given the phrasing but at this point there's a whole ton of reading between the lines going on and not many lines :)

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to KaruSF)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 5:12:09 PM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I'm only submissive when I come up against someone who is more dominant than I am. I'm not a naturally submissive personality, until I get to that person.


What she said...

What they said

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/11/2013 9:10:13 PM   
instigated


Posts: 7
Joined: 4/2/2013
Status: offline 		I have to say this whole topic made me smile because everyone's been genuinely nice. I've been a member for a few days and have been viewing the forums since then. I was really worried about the amount of snark but pleasantly surprised to see people taking my post seriously.

Thank you all!

I got a reply to the email and it was clear the writer wasn't someone I'd want to talk to again. Block and move on. I definitely learned a lot from posting here and very glad I did. I wish topics like this would come up at munches. Maybe I just haven't been to enough of them but I feel that I have so much to learn.

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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/12/2013 7:05:22 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Glad your thread went well snark-free and the problem is resolved.... at least from your standpoint :)

To be fair though, you didn't give us much to snark about. It was a fairly straightforward question without a whole lot of built-in "you gotta be kidding me" so there just wasn't much material to work with. Give us another chance and I'm sure we can get more snark in somehow :)

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to instigated)
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RE: Confusing question - submissive fighting the urge t... - 4/13/2013 8:25:08 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		If someone asked me this I would tell them I have no clue what they mean.

I'm me....with everyone.

I don't switch my personality on/off or pretend to be a different personality with someone else.

I am a submissive personality. I submit. Period.

When I go to work, I submit to my boss. I submit to my job. I do what needs to be done.
When I'm with friends, I submit to their desires most times because most times I really don't care one way or the other. I'd rather they make the choices and we're all happy.
When I'm out in public, I submit to strangers. I am almost always the one to move out of the way. I rarely start conversations, I don't take the lead. I'm the quiet one who doesn't make conflicts or chaos.

Basically it sounds like the person is asking you if you are a submissive personality or a submissive role.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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