RE: Gun Control Poll

RE: Gun Control Poll (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Gun Control Poll

I've never even touched a gun in my life and am FOR gun control.

0% (0)

I've had limited exposure to guns and am FOR gun control.

7% (4)

I couldn't possibly care less one way or the other.

3% (2)

I've had extensive training/exposure and am FOR gun control.

20% (11)

I've had extensive training/exposure and am AGAINST gun control.

43% (23)

I've had no/limited exposure and am AGAINST gun control

24% (13)

Total Votes : 53

(last vote on : 4/26/2013 6:32:51 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 6:59:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC I am clearly missing something HUGE here... http://www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk/ So apparently someone is selling firearms for hunting purposes in the UK. Per another site there are two certificates and two permits (for visitors) that one can obtain. I would find it utterly astonishing to know that there was no gun hunting in the UK Wikipedia has an entire section on "shooting sports" which sort of implies something to shoot with. Oh, I see - that was a 'trap question'. Sigh Should have realised. OK, then, let me pick my words ever so carefully. The reality is that, apart from a few people, for special reasons (sports and a few others) guns aren't owned by civilians here.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 7:18:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr This might be fun. Does someone's knowledge/experience with weapons change their slant on gun control? My choice might not be in there. I have no experience with guns and I am not in favor of no control, nor am I in favor of ridiculous controls.

JeffBC -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 7:24:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Oh, I see - that was a 'trap question'. Sigh Should have realised. Nope, I didn't mean it that way. If it was a trap it was unintended. I do tend to have a pretty literal mind. I genuinely assumed you were talking about zero private ownership and that seemed pretty unlikely. As it turns out, I was right. Keep in mind I'm the guy who had to come up with a specific, measurable and objective way to quantify "total" before I could think of myself in a TPE relationship. Also, note how I mentioned myself in this very thread: "I've had very limited (near none) exposure to guns" I've shot a gun maybe three times in my life and only once that I can actually remember. I could've said "no exposure" but my brain shies away from unjustified absolutes. I think it's the programmer in me. So while the question might have trapped you it's intention was to be a legitimate question. Thanks for the clarification.

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 7:35:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Thanks for the clarification. No worries. I'm given to assume, wrongly, that there's some shared view of guns across all North America. That's not even true of the USA. My fault.

JeffBC -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 7:49:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer No worries. I'm given to assume, wrongly, that there's some shared view of guns across all North America. That's not even true of the USA. My fault. Well, to be fair, while I now live in Canada my views on most everything are shaped by my US experience. But as you say, the US is a big place with a lot of folks. Finding any sort of commonality is hard and a question like this is complex and getting more complex as trust in our own government plummets. You tell me how you'd feel about gun control if you actually saw your own government as illegitimate. You tell me how you'd feel if you lived in a country where you don't believe for one second that the cops give a rats ass about protecting you. Suddenly the whole wild wild west mentality makes a lot of sense because it IS a lawless environment. And by the way, I've never been a radical anything in my life before. I'm surprised at my own stances nowadays but between bush & obama and occupy I see things differently nowadays. I think Obama was the nail in the coffin for me. I mean it was predictable that Bush would do the things he did. But Obama? Who'd have guessed that he'd be even worse than Bush in some ways?

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 7:52:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I was trying to keep extremists at bay. I doubt that there many people that would hold those extreme positions. Plus; I am trying to see if experience/exposure is "causual" and I think the results of the poll itself will indicate if there is relevency. I voted the last option, but I would have voted "Experience/exposure is irrelevant, I am for no control and no restrictions of any kind whatsoever (remove what we already have)." if I had the chance.

JeffBC -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 7:55:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar I voted the last option, but I would have voted "Experience/exposure is irrelevant, I am for no control and no restrictions of any kind whatsoever (remove what we already have)." if I had the chance. OK, and to avoid the appearance of trappiness this time... this is not a trap question. You are OK with your neighbors having WMD?

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 8:01:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar I voted the last option, but I would have voted "Experience/exposure is irrelevant, I am for no control and no restrictions of any kind whatsoever (remove what we already have)." if I had the chance. OK, and to avoid the appearance of trappiness this time... this is not a trap question. You are OK with your neighbors having WMD? I don't consider it an issue of whether or not I'm ok with it. I consider it an issue of I have no right to stick my nose in their business until they breach the point where they interfere with me. And yes, I'm aware that that could lead to very sucky situations, I'm just not ok with the mass enslavement of humanity as a whole in an attempt to regulate sucky situations out of existence, just because of the feeling that there is such a thing as a right to do what's in everybody's best interest. My neighbors having WMD is a sacrifice I'm willing to make if it means that the illusion of the "social contract" or the government's right to dictate terms over land mass is abandoned.

FunCouple5280 -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 8:04:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC You tell me how you'd feel about gun control if you actually saw your own government as illegitimate. You tell me how you'd feel if you lived in a country where you don't believe for one second that the cops give a rats ass about protecting you. Suddenly the whole wild wild west mentality makes a lot of sense because it IS a lawless environment. You may be onto something here. Many of the posters on here are primarily Caucasian, if not at least individuals of the suburban/rural variety. I would be more curious about the Urban African American take. While there is enormous outcry from various groups within that community about gun violence, African Americans don't pull their punches when discussing what they think about the police and whether or not they feel protected.. I am more inclined to think the gun control whities on the board live in generally safe neighborhoods and feel safe with the cops. The pro-gun whites are just part of the bubble culture of worry, yet will most likely never need to pull a gun in defense. People living in real lawless areas would probably have a better perspective on that without the need for excess mental masturbation.

JeffBC -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 8:11:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar My neighbors having WMD is a sacrifice I'm willing to make if it means that the illusion of the "social contract" or the government's right to dictate terms over land mass is abandoned. Yeah, I understand the philosophical point. But you are advocating the destruction of humanity and possibly our entire planet or solar system (given a bit more time to work on our weapons) in exchange for individual liberty and that pretty much means humanity was a failure from an evolutionary standpoint.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 8:27:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar My neighbors having WMD is a sacrifice I'm willing to make if it means that the illusion of the "social contract" or the government's right to dictate terms over land mass is abandoned. But you are advocating the destruction of humanity and possibly our entire planet or solar system (given a bit more time to work on our weapons) in exchange for individual liberty Like I said: sucky situation. The problem, as I see it, with the attempt at regulating sucky situations out of existence is that it will ultimately fail. At some point, when we advance enough, my neighbor has going to have WMD, whether they're trying to regulate him from not having them or not. It won't be in my lifetime, of course, so I could say: "not my problem, lets just be safe now". The issue with that is that if we keep depending on regulation to make sucky situations not exist, we have already failed, and will perpetually fail, with our only chance -to learn to deal with the fact that there are going to be sucky situations- entirely out of reach. Regulation doesn't fix anything unless you really take it to it's end conclusion of mass totalitarian slavery, with a culling of the noncompliant. Until that point, risks will continue to exceed regulatory capacities, solving nothing. So maybe we're doomed, maybe we're not... but we're not doing ourselves any favors holding on the the crutches, and we haven't done ourselves any favors by not discarding them in the past.

DomKen -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 8:34:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I've got no problem with banning civilian models of military weapons. You mean semi automatic civilian models that look like military weapons. No, I mean weapons like the AR-15 which was made to be sold to militaries and which were later sold to the civilian market in very slightly modified form.

TricklessMagic -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 9:03:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I've got no problem with banning civilian models of military weapons. You mean semi automatic civilian models that look like military weapons. No, I mean weapons like the AR-15 which was made to be sold to militaries and which were later sold to the civilian market in very slightly modified form. Essentially he's saying any firearm that resembles or has some root of origin in a firearm once used by the military is a civilian version of the military firearm and should be banned. So M1A1's which are semi-auto only version of the M14, all bolt-action rifles, all AR-15s, AR-10s, all semi-auto only AK variants, all Ruger Mini models (because they are a scaled down version of the M14), you know basically every rifle except lever action rifles which were never formally adopted by the U.S. military, so no drop block or rolling block rifles either.

TricklessMagic -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 9:06:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar My neighbors having WMD is a sacrifice I'm willing to make if it means that the illusion of the "social contract" or the government's right to dictate terms over land mass is abandoned. Yeah, I understand the philosophical point. But you are advocating the destruction of humanity and possibly our entire planet or solar system (given a bit more time to work on our weapons) in exchange for individual liberty and that pretty much means humanity was a failure from an evolutionary standpoint. WTF, guns equal WMD in your mind. I get how it works with the United Nations, they are anti-defense against murderers and tyrants, they are about maintaining the status quo. Red herring. Red herring.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 9:06:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic you know basically every rifle except lever action rifles which were never formally adopted by the U.S. military, Wasn't the Spencer repeater used by the Union army back in the Civil war? Gotta eliminate lever actions too.

YN -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 9:29:57 PM)
Under our countries particulars and my personal circumstances, I voted that I was for the type of g"gun control" we currently have. I think that firearms are necessary for certain people, rurales need the types of shotguns, and .22 rimfires. or the local animals would haul off their crops and kill and eat their animals with relative impunity. As we have banned hunting save under special circumstances, the need for center-fire rifles for that purpose, save for those Indians designated by their bands, and those government hunters designated for that purpose, there is not the necessity. Handguns are the proper tool for self defense, however those licensed to carry them should be especially vetted, both in terms of their personal characteristics, and training, as we do. Various firearms, including military ones are also properly used for sport target shooting, and the regulations should allow that, again after the proper vetting. Finally security companies, those living on borders, vessels and others with the legitimate need should have the necessary weapons available to them. The screening process should weed out the mentally ill, and those with a violent history, and the required training should include the safe handling and use of firearms, the legal requirements, and impose some minimal accuracy requirements for those carrying them to be armed, and should insure the firearms allowed to be possessed have the reasonable use for which the person desiring them claims (no 30 round magazine semiautomatic center-fire rifles for killing small agricultural pests, nor drum fed automatic shotguns for skeet shooting, etc.) I have no problems with those needing these tools having them, and with relatively easy access, providing the appropriate screening, vetting, and training requirements are met. The local pimp needing a Kalashnikov and a Glock 17 to defend himself, or the drug gangsters wishing to buy a stand of Uzis for their corporation, is another and different tale.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 9:39:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I've got no problem with banning civilian models of military weapons. You mean semi automatic civilian models that look like military weapons. No, I mean weapons like the AR-15 which was made to be sold to militaries and which were later sold to the civilian market in very slightly modified form. Essentially he's saying any firearm that resembles or has some root of origin in a firearm once used by the military is a civilian version of the military firearm and should be banned. So M1A1's which are semi-auto only version of the M14, all bolt-action rifles, all AR-15s, AR-10s, all semi-auto only AK variants, all Ruger Mini models (because they are a scaled down version of the M14), you know basically every rifle except lever action rifles which were never formally adopted by the U.S. military, so no drop block or rolling block rifles either. As usual he basically doesn't know as much about what he's talking about as he thinks he does.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 9:43:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic you know basically every rifle except lever action rifles which were never formally adopted by the U.S. military, Wasn't the Spencer repeater used by the Union army back in the Civil war? Gotta eliminate lever actions too. Wait till they find out what a lever action can do.

YN -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 9:56:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Wait till they find out what a lever action can do. Actually lever actioned carbines in .357 magnum, and .44 magnum are quite popular for use in various Latin American countries. Brasil sells them as fast as they can be made. If I had the need for a center fire rifle, this would be the likely type, as they are good for horseback use.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun Control Poll (4/11/2013 10:08:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YN quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Wait till they find out what a lever action can do. Actually lever actioned carbines in .357 magnum, and .44 magnum are quite popular for use in various Latin American countries. Brasil sells them as fast as they can be made. If I had the need for a center fire rifle, this would be the likely type, as they are good for horseback use. So are the ones that are made for high powered cartridges.

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