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RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 2:30:11 AM   
NotSoNormalGuy


Posts: 31
Joined: 7/16/2011
Status: offline 		Since you apparently tie exports with performance (why, I'm not sure)

China, population 1.35 billion, exported about 1.9 Trillion US Dollars worth of product in 2011 (Most recent data I could quickly find)
US, population 312 million, 23% the population of China, exported about 1.5 Trillion US Dollars worth of product in 2011.

23% of the population, 79% of the exports. Wow!

The US workers have it generally much better than the China workers, far better management being not the least of it.

Apparently high paid executives make for better working conditions, higher wages and more efficient companies!

Awesome statistic you've found in this Exports per Capita.

NSNG

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 3:17:26 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NotSoNormalGuy

Since you apparently tie exports with performance (why, I'm not sure)



I gave very specific examples of atrocious performance tied to ridiculously outrageous 'reward.' You chose to overlook that and claim something I never said (why, I'm actually quite sure).

quote:

ORIGINAL: NotSoNormalGuy

quote:

ORIGINAL: NotSoNormalGuy

Since you apparently tie exports with performance (why, I'm not sure)



I very specific examples of atrocious performance tied to ridiculously outrageous 'reward.' You chose to overlook that and claim something I never said (why, I'm actually quite sure).


China, population 1.35 billion, exported about 1.9 Trillion US Dollars worth of product in 2011 (Most recent data I could quickly find)
US, population 312 million, 23% the population of China, exported about 1.5 Trillion US Dollars worth of product in 2011.

23% of the population, 79% of the exports. Wow!

The US workers have it generally much better than the China workers, far better management being not the least of it.

Apparently high paid executives make for better working conditions, higher wages and more efficient companies!

Awesome statistic you've found in this Exports per Capita.

NSNG



I never said that highly paid execs are not always worth it, just that ridiculously high paid execs are never worth it. In fact the ludicrous executive pay in this country is empirically tied directly to seriously bad performance, by all measures.

German workers are 2/3ds represented by collective bargaining, have 6 weeks vacation, better average pay ... and their country out-exports the US 2 or three years running at a time, with highly but sanely paid executives. (So much for the 'unions are the problem' theory.)

Want to twist anything else around?

quote:

Awesome statistic you've found in this Exports per Capita.



I specifically said: "That's total imports, not per capita."

Anything else you want to completely miscomprehend?





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/15/2013 3:26:46 AM >

(in reply to NotSoNormalGuy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 3:23:20 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

I've never said that really good CEOs don't deserve high pay.

It's just that in the US we've proven to have seriously bad judgement about who deserves it, compared to other countries.


(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 3:45:32 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
quote:

ORIGINAL: NotSoNormalGuy
Since you apparently tie exports with performance (why, I'm not sure)

I gave very specific examples of atrocious performance tied to ridiculously outrageous 'reward.' You chose to overlook that and claim something I never said (why, I'm actually quite sure).
quote:

ORIGINAL: NotSoNormalGuy
quote:

ORIGINAL: NotSoNormalGuy
Since you apparently tie exports with performance (why, I'm not sure)

I very specific examples of atrocious performance tied to ridiculously outrageous 'reward.' You chose to overlook that and claim something I never said (why, I'm actually quite sure).
China, population 1.35 billion, exported about 1.9 Trillion US Dollars worth of product in 2011 (Most recent data I could quickly find)
US, population 312 million, 23% the population of China, exported about 1.5 Trillion US Dollars worth of product in 2011.
23% of the population, 79% of the exports. Wow!
The US workers have it generally much better than the China workers, far better management being not the least of it.
Apparently high paid executives make for better working conditions, higher wages and more efficient companies!
Awesome statistic you've found in this Exports per Capita.
NSNG

I never said that highly paid execs are not always worth it, just that ridiculously high paid execs are never worth it. In fact the ludicrous executive pay in this country is empirically tied directly to seriously bad performance, by all measures.
German workers are 2/3ds represented by collective bargaining, have 6 weeks vacation, better average pay ... and their country out-exports the US 2 or three years running at a time, with highly but sanely paid executives. (So much for the 'unions are the problem' theory.)
Want to twist anything else around?
quote:

Awesome statistic you've found in this Exports per Capita.

I specifically said: "That's total imports, not per capita."
Anything else you want to completely miscomprehend?


We don't export less than others for any reason more than the fact that we consume so damn much. If we consumed less, we'd import less and exports, compared to imports, would rise. What would happen to China's exports if we didn't get so much stuff from them? Where do the Germans export to, and what do they export?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 5:34:05 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I think any discussion needs to honestly address the question of, why do the employers engage in this practice.




What practice?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 5:36:47 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I had a very good job, as a line operator at a plastics factory back in '90s, until I tore my back up. I spent a couple of years out of work, until finding my current employer. I worked here for free, for a few months (living off of savings and help from family, and food stamps for a very short time), until they could actually hire me. Been here for almost 11 years now.

It can be done, but I don't envy anyone going through it.


I always knew I liked you.

You're the guy that (unemployed) people should look to and do the math.

Unfortunately, everyone wants 85 bucks an hour to start and don't know what a ladder even looks like.

If you were in Seattle....just because of what you just wrote...I'd have hired you for any position in my company you opted for.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 5:42:48 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I appreciate that, my friend.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 5:43:28 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

That's not an easy way to do it, Level, but there are ways to break through.


It's an extremely easy way to do it. It's a sure bet.

I don't know the math but I'd venture a guess that out of 10,000 people....1 would do what he did.

As an employer....guess which guy I'm gonna drive my car off a cliff to find a way to fund his pay check?

That guy.

Guess which guy, if I have some "questionables" on my staff I'm going to fill a "pending" (thanks to his intent on acquiring a position) vacancy with?

That guy.

Smartest thing he ever did was work for free and I bet 50 bucks he'd not only agree....he'd put another 50 on it, not because he knows the payoff....but because he knew the payoff.

Level, I always thought you were a class act....now, there's no debate in my mind.

If you ever get to Seattle and I have a slot, you can have it.

If I don't...gimme 90 - 120 days.

I'll make one for you.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 4/15/2013 5:50:33 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 5:55:40 PM   
DOM68005


Posts: 6069
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Nebraska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
The author goes straight for the knee-jerk default "perfect solution" of the liberal mind in his conclusion, and wants the government to immediately start hiring these folks, where I'm going to disagree (and probably suggest he's kind of a dumbass), but it's a stark look at a real problem all the same.

Let's be clear. For too many people, the government programs are the reason some people are unemployed for six months or longer. I know folks who collect unemployment insurance, food stamps and medicaid. The food bank fills in the gaps for some as well. Given they were living only a tad above minimum wage, why should they work and pay taxes? These programs provide them with about the same net "take home" money without leaving the house. They vote based on who voted to extend these programs. Politicians know it and vote extentions without hesitation.
We agree ... Government is doing them no real favor.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/15/2013 5:56:53 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Again, thanks that means alot to me.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/16/2013 7:55:05 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		I have a masters in education and many years' teaching experience. However, when my family moved several years ago for my husband's job....there were no jobs in my field within a 75 mile radius (we live in redneck hell). So, I have not taught for 3 years. HOWEVER...I have been working. Sure, it's part time and it doesn't even pay 1/4 of what I made teaching.....but I took the jobs I could get.

We live in a dying town where every major industry has pulled out, and no new industry is coming in because no matter how you get to our town, the last 30 miles are windy two lane roads. But ya know what? McDonalds, Wal Mart, Burger King, the local clothing and supply stores....are ALWAYS hiring. So it begs the question....are there really no jobs (in my area) or are people just thinking they are "above" the ones that are out there? This just goes for my area - realize there likely are places where there are literally zero jobs.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/16/2013 8:04:32 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		This is basically my situation currently. In my case, I am blessed by having financial reserves and the skills required to start a business so my "employability" can be fixed by myself. It's still not a pleasant situation. It's also worth noting that since I'm in IT, I also suffer from the "too old to be useful" problem.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 4/16/2013 8:05:05 AM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/16/2013 8:45:46 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		It's because in the post-industrial American economy there are fewer and fewer jobs and more and more applicants so employers can be selective, selective in that during this recession employers go rid of their marginal employees so when re-hiring, why hire someone who was out of work and therefore one of those marginal employees than someone who kept their job and was therefore a top notch person? So, if you have no job now and you are not young (cheap) and well trained (cheap, with a degree and in debt to your college and so must work for cheap) then one needs to either flip burgers and/or have a garden. Sorry, that is what free trade did to you and it is done already so raise a garden since welfare will halt very soon when China stops loaning us money for your unemployment check.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/16/2013 8:47:21 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I had a very good job, as a line operator at a plastics factory back in '90s, until I tore my back up. I spent a couple of years out of work, until finding my current employer. I worked here for free, for a few months (living off of savings and help from family, and food stamps for a very short time), until they could actually hire me. Been here for almost 11 years now.

It can be done, but I don't envy anyone going through it.


<tips hat>


_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/16/2013 8:48:27 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

We live in a dying town where every major industry has pulled out, and no new industry is coming in because no matter how you get to our town, the last 30 miles are windy two lane roads. But ya know what? McDonalds, Wal Mart, Burger King, the local clothing and supply stores....are ALWAYS hiring.


See my earlier post. Get a job at McDonalds and rise to manage a few of those if you happen to be a great employee and still want to make it.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/16/2013 8:52:12 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		Local industry and commerce. That is where we are at and will continue to go to. Get out of the city, get a place in a local small town, cash that for sucker's 401k in, buy a house and land and learn a skilled trade and/or raise food or work in the local service industry.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/16/2013 9:12:12 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub
I have a masters in education and many years' teaching experience. However, when my family moved several years ago for my husband's job....there were no jobs in my field within a 75 mile radius (we live in redneck hell). So, I have not taught for 3 years. HOWEVER...I have been working. Sure, it's part time and it doesn't even pay 1/4 of what I made teaching.....but I took the jobs I could get.
We live in a dying town where every major industry has pulled out, and no new industry is coming in because no matter how you get to our town, the last 30 miles are windy two lane roads. But ya know what? McDonalds, Wal Mart, Burger King, the local clothing and supply stores....are ALWAYS hiring. So it begs the question....are there really no jobs (in my area) or are people just thinking they are "above" the ones that are out there? This just goes for my area - realize there likely are places where there are literally zero jobs.


There does come a point in time when an opening is going to end up costing you more than you'd make. If you had a part-time job, but to do that, you had to have your kid(s) in DayCare, it's possible that you'd end up spending more than you earn (gross or net). Depending on the disparity, it may be financially wise to stay at home rather than work.

My ex didn't understand that. While I was off, we weren't spending anything on DayCare. Considering our 3 kids, DayCare had been $14-18k/year. At a simple 15% tax bracket (yes, I'm ignoring the 10% bracket for ease of calculations, plus with two incomes, it would have been more likely that we'd have been in a higher bracket, anyway), it would take a gross pay of $16,470-$21,176/year just to break even.

Makes for some tough decisions and potentially poor outcomes once the DayCare expense is over.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment - 4/16/2013 9:33:47 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		This study is interesting

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tougher-long-term-unemployed-job-135541218.html

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 38
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