RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings

RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (Full Version)

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Edwynn -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 1:46:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 The kids themselves didn't say they did it casue of manson, religious wackos here tried to blame it on manson. I was in high school then, in the same town here in CO, one of the victims was a classmate in grammar school of mine, I am all too aware of what happened. The religious hand ringing was despicable.....I am pointing out that this kid in Boston claimed it was religious zeal, therefor there might be something to be said for that. Therefor all acts of violent wackiness are religeous-based, then. Because there is "something to be said" for such unthinking accusation. Stalin and Hitler, among others, would demonstrate otherwise, and the OP well pointed out otherwise to begin with. We can't blame it all on guns (just as we can't say that limitless guns to wackos represents 'freedom'), but we can't limit all insane violence to religious wackos either. I didn't see Cheney or Runsfeldt waving their Crusade flags on their way to killing well over 100,000 civilians. Other than that oil grabbing is the modern day crusades. How low we have sunk.

Edwynn -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 1:48:22 AM)
~ Inadvertent double post

Edwynn -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 1:58:41 AM)
~FR~ The brothers Tsarnaev represent Islam about as much as Eric Rudolph represents Christianity. Think about it.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 3:37:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 The kids themselves didn't say they did it casue of manson, religious wackos here tried to blame it on manson. I was in high school then, in the same town here in CO, one of the victims was a classmate in grammar school of mine, I am all too aware of what happened. The religious hand ringing was despicable.....I am pointing out that this kid in Boston claimed it was religious zeal, therefor there might be something to be said for that. Therefor all acts of violent wackiness are religeous-based, then. Because there is "something to be said" for such unthinking accusation. Stalin and Hitler, among others, would demonstrate otherwise, and the OP well pointed out otherwise to begin with. We can't blame it all on guns (just as we can't say that limitless guns to wackos represents 'freedom'), but we can't limit all insane violence to religious wackos either. where does fc suggest all violence is religious coz all i can see is him sayin' religion "might" be a cause at boston.

tweakabelle -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 4:36:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: How do you eliminate terrorism when your existence is part of the reason you are being terrorized? The reasons the USA is under threat are related to its actions, not its existence. Wasn't limiting my question to the US, tweak. What actions is the US taking that makes terrorism an acceptable reaction? I have never said terrorism is an "acceptable reaction". I am saying that there are real political conditions that cause it, and if you are serious about wanting to stop it, then those conditions have to be understood and addressed. Common sense really You are saying it right there that terrorism is an acceptable reaction. Real political conditions exist that cause it [terrorism]. To stop it [terrorism], those [political] conditions have to be addressed. What you are saying is that those that commit terrorist have no choice in the matter. You are saying that political conditions are the cause. At no time are you saying the ones carrying out the terrorist actions need to shoulder blame. That means, terrorism is an acceptable reaction to the real political conditions that do exist. Trying to make some sense from that gibberish, it appears you are claiming to know more about what I am saying than I do. If that is the case, there's no need for me to say anything more is there? You already know whatever it is I might be going to say don't you? Show me where I was wrong, then, tweak. You must have missed the bit in my post where I described terrorist attacks as "atrocities". It's post #12 if you'd care to re-read it. I pointed out that terrorism occurs for real easily identifiable reasons. That is a million miles removed from any kind of approval for something I had just described as "atrocities". I also pointed out that terrorist attacks don't necessarily have to make sense to any one but the terrorists and the constituency they spring from. There's nothing original or particularly insightful or even controversial about these remarks, they will be found in serious analysis of asymmetrical warfare most likely on page 1, Chapter 1. If people are uninterested in understanding why terrorism happens, then whatever response to terrorism they choose to adopt is likely to be as much of a fiasco, and as utterly unsuccessful as the invasion of Iraq was.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 4:49:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle I pointed out that terrorism occurs for real easily identifiable reasons. That is a million miles removed from any kind of approval for something I had just described as "atrocities". I also pointed out that terrorist attacks don't necessarily have to make sense to any one but the terrorists and the constituency they spring from. There's nothing original or particularly insightful or even controversial about these remarks, they will be found in serious analysis of asymmetrical warfare most likely on page 1, Chapter 1. If people are uninterested in understanding why terrorism happens, then whatever response to terrorism they choose to adopt is likely to be as much of a fiasco, and as utterly unsuccessful as the invasion of Iraq was. tweaks tha main point ya made was that tha west can fix tha political problems causing terrorism plus ya said loadsa things that kinda sound apologetic quote: Repression is usually the first response by the State to any challenge to its monopoly on political violence. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4430967 quote: Terrorism is not something that people, religious or otherwise, randomly pick. Where terrorism is prevalent, there exist easily identifiable social and political reasons for its existence, the most common of these is that the community with which the terrorist or terrorist group identifies is under attack from outside malignant forces... It doesn't matter whether these analyses and solutions make sense to outsiders, there is no need for them to do so. All that matters is that they make sense to the aggrieved parties. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4430558 ya also need toknow tha reaction to iraq was not over terrorism. only afghanistan was after tha taliban were abetting his evasion from capture & refused to hand been-leaded over.

tweakabelle -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 5:06:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Wasn't limiting my question to the US, tweak. What actions is the US taking that makes terrorism an acceptable reaction? I didn't see anything in tweaks response saying that she considered the reaction acceptable, just that she considered it to be a reaction. True, but she intimates that the reaction is somehow justifiable. Please see previous post. It's beyond me how you can possibly imagine that something I have just described as an "atrocity" to be an intimation by me that it "is somehow justifiable". But that's what you have just done. Pointing out that there is a reason why an atrocity happens in no way conveys any approval of the atrocity, it is simply a recognition that it happens. Anything else is in your imagination.

Edwynn -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 6:27:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 The kids themselves didn't say they did it casue of manson, religious wackos here tried to blame it on manson. I was in high school then, in the same town here in CO, one of the victims was a classmate in grammar school of mine, I am all too aware of what happened. The religious hand ringing was despicable.....I am pointing out that this kid in Boston claimed it was religious zeal, therefor there might be something to be said for that. Therefor all acts of violent wackiness are religeous-based, then. Because there is "something to be said" for such unthinking accusation. Stalin and Hitler, among others, would demonstrate otherwise, and the OP well pointed out otherwise to begin with. We can't blame it all on guns (just as we can't say that limitless guns to wackos represents 'freedom'), but we can't limit all insane violence to religious wackos either. where does fc suggest all violence is religious coz all i can see is him sayin' religion "might" be a cause at boston. I was taking the ridiculous notion that the Boston bombing was in any way 'religiously' based to the logical extension proposed there. These were nut cases, plain and simple, some particular malinterpretation of whatever religion being the drug of choice in this particular instance. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the faith of Islam itself in this case. Read this again: quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn ~FR~ The brothers Tsarnaev represent Islam about as much as Eric Rudolph represents Christianity. Think about it. Pay attention to the "think about it" part. Thank you for your participation. PS Learn to speak like a non-thirteen year-old, that would help a lot of things. As ye speak, so you train the mind in every other way. It shows.

Edwynn -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 6:46:33 AM)
PS The bombing wasn't even the least bit politically based in any real way, either, so all the implication of any higher notion or other motive being bandied about are off the table also. The older brother was a nut case and dragged his limp-minded younger brother along for the ride. There is lots of honest discussion to be had about the help vs. harm of various religions, lots of good discussion to be had about political decisions, actions, repercussions, etc. There is plausibility in the 'chickens coming home to roost' aspect of this case, but that is because of the great instability engendered by the actions of the superpower du jour, which excites the passions of nut cases around the world who have no capacity whatsoever to even attempt any sane interpretation of any religion or political philosophy at all, just damaged brains that easily adapt to the most virulent and violent shouting. We have Rush Limbaugh et al. for that in the US. Seems to work quite well, in a variety of cultures.

vincentML -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 6:50:20 AM)
quote: ya also need toknow tha reaction to iraq was not over terrorism. only afghanistan was after tha taliban were abetting his evasion from capture & refused to hand been-leaded over. Not so. The invasion of Iraq was very much a response to 9/11 attacks on the Trade Towers, albeit a misguided and disingenuous one. The Bushies used the post Trade Tower hysteria to propel us into an unnecesary and repugnant war. Every attempt was made to link Saddam to the terror in NYC and to expand his role into a nuclear threat. Furthemore, as seen from the eyes of the 'terrorists' it was a continuatioan of their principle grievence that the Christian West was attacking Muslim nations. Which incidently is being played out again with our threats against Syria and Iran. The 'Fix' is for us to withdraw and leave the nations of the ME to sort it out for themselves. Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen so keep your eyes peeled for abandoned packages in shopping malls and transportation hubs.

Kirata -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 8:20:36 AM)
The U.S. will attack 7 countries in 5 years ~Wesley Clark K.

Edwynn -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 8:59:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML The invasion of Iraq was very much a response to 9/11 attacks on the Trade Towers, albeit a misguided and disingenuous one. Wow. This so exemplifies the hopelessness of the situation in this country. Decades of oil grabbing willfully ignored. Patent fairy tale taken as reality in today's world. Wow.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 9:17:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 The kids themselves didn't say they did it casue of manson, religious wackos here tried to blame it on manson. I was in high school then, in the same town here in CO, one of the victims was a classmate in grammar school of mine, I am all too aware of what happened. The religious hand ringing was despicable.....I am pointing out that this kid in Boston claimed it was religious zeal, therefor there might be something to be said for that. Therefor all acts of violent wackiness are religeous-based, then. Because there is "something to be said" for such unthinking accusation. Stalin and Hitler, among others, would demonstrate otherwise, and the OP well pointed out otherwise to begin with. We can't blame it all on guns (just as we can't say that limitless guns to wackos represents 'freedom'), but we can't limit all insane violence to religious wackos either. where does fc suggest all violence is religious coz all i can see is him sayin' religion "might" be a cause at boston. I was taking the ridiculous notion that the Boston bombing was in any way 'religiously' based to the logical extension proposed there. These were nut cases, plain and simple, some particular malinterpretation of whatever religion being the drug of choice in this particular instance. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the faith of Islam itself in this case. how tha fuck is it a "ridiculous notion" that tha bombing was "in any way" religiously based? they professed their abiding faith in islam, tha brother was on russias radar for extremist activity in chechnya which is a place wit a lotta religious extremism & they used tha very sort of bombs widely used by jihadists in afghanistan & pakistan? quote: Read this again: quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn ~FR~ The brothers Tsarnaev represent Islam about as much as Eric Rudolph represents Christianity. Think about it. Pay attention to the "think about it" part. its total fucking bs. stats show that american muslims account for 0.8% of tha population http://features.pewforum.org/muslim-population-graphic/#/United%20States but contribute a big number of terrorist related offenses in tha country. wanna take a measure of extreme right wing religious activity versus tha general american christian population? quote: Thank you for your participation. PS Learn to speak like a non-thirteen year-old, that would help a lot of things. As ye speak, so you train the mind in every other way. It shows. awww now no offense but ya kinda look like a over sensitive dude coz cant stand just one queries bout yr posts & resort to insults right off. fc was not saying only religion caused violence. thats strawman bs on yr part bud. maybe ya should take up another pursuit that wont tax yr cognitively dissonant brain too much? hey just "think about it" bud. [:)]

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 9:27:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn PS The bombing wasn't even the least bit politically based in any real way, either, so all the implication of any higher notion or other motive being bandied about are off the table also. The older brother was a nut case and dragged his limp-minded younger brother along for the ride. There is lots of honest discussion to be had about the help vs. harm of various religions, lots of good discussion to be had about political decisions, actions, repercussions, etc. There is plausibility in the 'chickens coming home to roost' aspect of this case, but that is because of the great instability engendered by the actions of the superpower du jour, which excites the passions of nut cases around the world who have no capacity whatsoever to even attempt any sane interpretation of any religion or political philosophy at all, just damaged brains that easily adapt to the most virulent and violent shouting. We have Rush Limbaugh et al. for that in the US. Seems to work quite well, in a variety of cultures. wow yr ona roll with more "ps" excuses. tha "limp-minded" younger brother was partying tha day after tha bombs shredded families. what tha fuck is it to you if he was led astray or not? boo hoo. he butchered families calmly & cheerfully. why do some individuals have to keep making excuses for mass murderers? it doesnt suit their flea sized ideologies. do ya know more bout islam than tha imans who encourage jihadism, religious intolerence & hatred of tha west? nah thought not. seems to me yr doing enough shouting to be a rush limbaugh of the left. yr "chickens coming home to roost" is more of tha moral justification for terrorism we saw plenty of on cm.

Edwynn -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 9:33:39 AM)
yashure, wutevrusay. sory ifi dstrbed yu ur anything. Maix purfict cents, all of itt. Sorry to belabor the point, but the religion of choice in this case was/is as much to blame as the manufacturers of the pressure cookers used for the bombs. And conversely. A nut case is free to chose whatever tools he wishes, both mentally and materially. Thus spake St. Eric Rudolph. Otherwise, the proposition is that any and all who visit a mosque, church, or temple (or use a rice steamer) are bomb throwers in waiting.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 9:36:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ya also need toknow tha reaction to iraq was not over terrorism. only afghanistan was after tha taliban were abetting his evasion from capture & refused to hand been-leaded over. Not so. The invasion of Iraq was very much a response to 9/11 attacks on the Trade Towers, albeit a misguided and disingenuous one. The Bushies used the post Trade Tower hysteria to propel us into an unnecesary and repugnant war. Every attempt was made to link Saddam to the terror in NYC and to expand his role into a nuclear threat. Furthemore, as seen from the eyes of the 'terrorists' it was a continuatioan of their principle grievence that the Christian West was attacking Muslim nations. Which incidently is being played out again with our threats against Syria and Iran. The 'Fix' is for us to withdraw and leave the nations of the ME to sort it out for themselves. Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen so keep your eyes peeled for abandoned packages in shopping malls and transportation hubs. ya say tha invasion of iraq was a misguided & disengenous response to 9/11 & 9/11 was used to propel hysteria for tha war. i reckon it means ya kinda agree wit me coz my view is that bush justified tha war in tha same way. it wasnt a response to 9/11 so much as 9/11 was used to sell tha war to the public.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 9:38:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn yashure, wutevrusay. sory ifi dstrbed yu ur anything. Maix purfict cents, all of itt. glad ya think so & good to see ya improving yr spelling too. forgot to say thanx for yr contribution. [:)]

Edwynn -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 9:42:56 AM)
I'm just trying to point out that one can use any excuse he wants to commit any sort of stupidity, even or especially violent stupidity. Please read the edit of earlier post. TY for your patience, of which I seem to be in short supply this day.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 9:46:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I'm just trying to point out that one can use any excuse he wants to commit any sort of stupidity, even or especially violent stupidity. Please read the edit of earlier post. TY for your patience, of which I seem to be in short supply this day. sure anyone can use any ole excuse. doesnt mean tho that its tha case here or elsewhere. dunno which post ya mean.

Edwynn -> RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings (4/27/2013 9:50:16 AM)
This one: quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Sorry to belabor the point, but the religion of choice in this case was/is as much to blame as the manufacturers of the pressure cookers used for the bombs. And conversely. A nut case is free to chose whatever tools he wishes, both mentally and materially. Thus spake St. Eric Rudolph. Otherwise, the proposition is that any and all who visit a mosque, church, or temple (or use a rice steamer) are bomb throwers in waiting.

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