Double talk?? (Full Version)

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mew -> Double talk?? (6/24/2006 5:47:32 AM)

I didn't want to highjack riotgirl's thread, so I am posting here in a new one. 
 
It seems to me there is a lot of double talk going on here, regarding going through your Master's email. 
 
I have to ask how a Master breaks your trust?   If he does it in front of you, is he not being honest?    If he does it behind your back, how would you know?  
 
Everyone told me it was "just wrong to go through your Master's email", yet everyone is telling her, "bravo".   
 
Either I am just plain stupid, or I am having a major brain fart this morning, because I really don't get it.    If you sense something isn't right in the relationship, don't you owe it to yourself to find out the truth if your not getting it from Master?   
 
I think many here are giving mixed advice.
 
~mew~



JessieMe -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 5:50:56 AM)

If you will notice mew.. I never told her bravo.. I told her to grow up. She is not coping.. she is not doing anything constructive. And I would imagine that if this is her reaction to what she found.. instead of just going to him and discussing it.. I can see a bit as to why he may not have gone to her in the first place. Understand I am not condoning dishonesty in any way.. on his part or hers... I just think that people have a small amount of responsibility in the worlds we create for ourselves to live in.



mistoferin -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 5:56:00 AM)

 
I believe it was just this past week Riot posted that her and her Master are no longer together. He has left. These are things she is finding out after the fact.



JessieMe -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:00:06 AM)

So in effect.. she is just getting revenge... even better.. <shaking my head> Some people really should be a bit more mature before deciding they can handle this lifestyle..

Let me state for the record though that my tour through BDSM has not been all peaches and roses.. but please..have a clue people.. know that there are unscrupulous people in this lifestyle just as there are others. Dont think that just because we are SUPPOSED to be honorable.. all of us really are. And for God's sake, if you have a child.. be even more responsible about making life decisions. KNOW the person before you hand your life to them.

Sheesh



Mook068 -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:00:31 AM)

Speaking from an experience about a "ravaged email account" from a submissive, it (whatever email that upset) is a SYMPTOM of something wrong that a mate ignored or chose to ignore.
 
that saying about pots calling kettles comes to mind.



agirl -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:02:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mew

I didn't want to highjack riotgirl's thread, so I am posting here in a new one. 
 
It seems to me there is a lot of double talk going on here, regarding going through your Master's email. 
 
I have to ask how a Master breaks your trust?   If he does it in front of you, is he not being honest?    If he does it behind your back, how would you know?  
 
Everyone told me it was "just wrong to go through your Master's email", yet everyone is telling her, "bravo".   
 
Either I am just plain stupid, or I am having a major brain fart this morning, because I really don't get it.    If you sense something isn't right in the relationship, don't you owe it to yourself to find out the truth if your not getting it from Master?   
 
I think many here are giving mixed advice.
 
~mew~


I see the similarities, mew, and understand why you ask. I did ask riotgirl what made her want to delve into his life in the first instance. You did say why you felt the desire to read your Master's mails, she hasn't said why.

If you're content and secure in a relationship I think the desire to delve wouldn't arise. I don't view it as *right* or * wrong* ......I view it as an action that, if available, and trust is shaky is a fairly understandable piece of human behaviour.

Whether *I* would or wouldn't do it isn't relevant because my trust in the people around me hasn't ever put me in the postion to have to face it.

Regards, agirl

edited due to spelling



meatcleaver -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:04:58 AM)

It takes two to have a trusting relationship, not one. If the relationship wasn't working he could have shown some integrity and looked her in the eye and told her. If he had met someone else he could have done the same. However, assuming Riot is telling the truth, he was playing both ends against the middle. He was playing a malicious and deceitful game that was insulting and humiliating. He had no integrity whatsoever.

Having been in a relationship where I had met someone else, I am fully aware that feelings can suddenly change and one can find oneself in a dilemma. The way out is to have the bottle to look your partner in the eye and tell him/her exactly what was going on and apologise for the hurt and feeling of humiliation that are caused.

The person in question appears to have been happy lying to everyone concerned for his own entertainment. Happy to use and humiliate. That to me is where he forfeits any regard for his position and why I think Riot has the right to get even if she wants to.

I know some people find apologizing hard but at the end of the day, it is a way to give someone their dignity back instead of increasing the humiliation. If I was in her position I would have done a lot more than just read his emails if he refused to explain himself and apologise after due patience.



mistoferin -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:11:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JessieMe
So in effect.. she is just getting revenge... even better.. <shaking my head>


Well no. I didn't comment on the other thread...and I don't know exactly what she is doing. I also didn't say whether I thought it was right or wrong. Those of you who are newer to the CM boards are most likely not aware that Riot has been posting for the last two years now about how this man has been abusive to her and her child and how he has a looooong history of lying and cheating.

I'm not saying that any of that rationalizes anything. Just trying to give a perspective as to why some posters may be responding the way they have.



MHOO314 -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:13:30 AM)

The comments to her come from being around the boards and posting a long time, RiotGirl has had issues with Master and their relationship in the past--I won't go into the details although they were posted publically--hence there is a serial history that many of us are able to piece together---(stick around and you will come to know lives too...<smiles>.)
 
However, I still stand on My feelings, one does not go through another's things--unless death. If there is suspicion. it must be confronted--for sneaking around when one thinks someone is sneaking around IMHO has no justification.



MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:13:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mew

I didn't want to highjack riotgirl's thread, so I am posting here in a new one. 
 
It seems to me there is a lot of double talk going on here, regarding going through your Master's email. 
 
I have to ask how a Master breaks your trust?   If he does it in front of you, is he not being honest?    If he does it behind your back, how would you know?  
 
Everyone told me it was "just wrong to go through your Master's email", yet everyone is telling her, "bravo".   
 
Either I am just plain stupid, or I am having a major brain fart this morning, because I really don't get it.    If you sense something isn't right in the relationship, don't you owe it to yourself to find out the truth if your not getting it from Master?   
 
I think many here are giving mixed advice.
 
~mew~
The difference is that you wanted validation for the wrong you were doing . You wanted others to say your were justified. Riot is just pitching a fit for the moment. She isn't asking "Am I right in doing something wrong?" You were.



NINASHARP -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:14:28 AM)

Well I hate to bust your bubble here, but having been screwed over more than once in my life, it happens that people do betray trusts (Master/Mistress, slave/sub alike) after going against what they promise to be to you, and you consent, (oops using the word consent again) and then they go behind your back and do the opposite of what you consented to.

OK, I did a little investigating on the subject, because that is what I do in my real job, and it didn't take long to find out what the OP in the other thread is talking about.  The trail of betrayal is all over the internet, and how much info out there is actually pretty scary. So maybe at first, it wasn't about the snooping in email, who cares? like MC said, she got screwed over, and once you betray someone's trusts, all bets are off, or something like that.

Not that two wrongs make it right, but none of us know that she did anything wrong. I was once asked to check the other mail when one of my subs couldn't do it, because he had no access to the computer, so maybe that is the way it happened, who knows.

Sorry if this comes across as a bit harsh. Its just a sensative subject to me.

Nina



agirl -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:15:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

It takes two to have a trusting relationship, not one. If the relationship wasn't working he could have shown some integrity and looked her in the eye and told her. If he had met someone else he could have done the same. However, assuming Riot is telling the truth, he was playing both ends against the middle. He was playing a malicious and deceitful game that was insulting and humiliating. He had no integrity whatsoever.

Having been in a relationship where I had met someone else, I am fully aware that feelings can suddenly change and one can find oneself in a dilemma. The way out is to have the bottle to look your partner in the eye and tell him/her exactly what was going on and apologise for the hurt and feeling of humiliation that are caused.

The person in question appears to have been happy lying to everyone concerned for his own entertainment. Happy to use and humiliate. That to me is where he forfeits any regard for his position and why I think Riot has the right to get even if she wants to.

I know some people find apologizing hard but at the end of the day, it is a way to give someone their dignity back instead of increasing the humiliation. If I was in her position I would have done a lot more than just read his emails if he refused to explain himself and apologise after due patience.


Absolutely......though I'm also very aware that through the chronicles of the situation.......only riotgirl's view and perspective has been seen.

While that doesn't negate  any feelings and pain she has.....it does mean that a whole *version* is missing.

agirl



mistoferin -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:18:04 AM)

Actually, he has been a poster here. I have seen him post where he is obviously aware of the things she has said about him. I have never seen him offer another perspective though.



agirl -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:21:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Actually, he has been a poster here. I have seen him post where he is obviously aware of the things she has said about him. I have never seen him offer another perspective though.


 I'm new enough not to be aware of those things, so any thoughts I post obviously come from the *face value* angle.



MHOO314 -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:22:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Actually, he has been a poster here. I have seen him post where he is obviously aware of the things she has said about him. I have never seen him offer another perspective though.


A good point mist, however, he may not feel he needs to vindicate himself  or that he wants to add fuel at times to an already raging fire.



NINASHARP -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:26:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Actually, he has been a poster here. I have seen him post where he is obviously aware of the things she has said about him. I have never seen him offer another perspective though.


Interesting, I didn't even check here on CM for her posts, only their profiles and his 10 replies on the forum. Didn't know about the history about her issues with him, but I guess that is all revealing itself now.  



mew -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:26:38 AM)

[/quote]The difference is that you wanted validation for the wrong you were doing . You wanted others to say your were justified. Riot is just pitching a fit for the moment. She isn't asking "Am I right in doing something wrong?" You were.
[/quote]

no I wasn't.  My original question was " is it appropriate for a Master to go behind a slaves back and email ex gf's." 
Someone else came back and ask me,  " how do you know?"   In this case, he told me, but in the past he hadn't been entirely truthful. 
 
I was not looking for justification for looking through his emails.   Bottom line is, if I felt secure, then there would be no reason to go looking.   
 
And for your information, I have not been into his personal stuff for over 2 yrs now.  
 
~mew~



meatcleaver -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:32:38 AM)

I have to admit I don't know the chronicles of this particular relationship and not sure I want to but I stand by the principle of someone forfeiting their position in regard for being shown any respect or consideration.

If someone wants their person and privacy to be respected, they should show some respect by not screwing with someone's life and be honest if their feelings have changed and they wish to end the relationship.

Anything else is moral cowardice and/or maliciousness. I understand people usually require time to build up the courage to be open and honest, I wouldn't judge anyone on that score.

So speaketh the word of the self righteous MC.



agirl -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:49:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I have to admit I don't know the chronicles of this particular relationship and not sure I want to but I stand by the principle of someone forfeiting their position in regard for being shown any respect or consideration.

If someone wants their person and privacy to be respected, they should show some respect by not screwing with someone's life and be honest if their feelings have changed and they wish to end the relationship.

Anything else is moral cowardice and/or maliciousness. I understand people usually require time to build up the courage to be open and honest, I wouldn't judge anyone on that score.

So speaketh the word of the self righteous MC.


 I probably agree overall, especially the part you wrote about *requiring time*.

I haven't any experience of being *fucked over*, not in the *cheating and lying* sense so I can have nothing to say that wouldn't be speculative.

If I have been cheated on or lied to, then I'm unaware of it  .....if I'm ok and happy overall, and nothing outside of my relationship is impacting on it, then my eqilibrium isn't rocked. What matters to me is what impacts on me........I don't want to be a moral policeman for anyone other than myself.

regards, agirl



JessieMe -> RE: Double talk?? (6/24/2006 6:49:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

So speaketh the word of the self righteous MC.


You should make this part of your signature line sweetie LOL



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