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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Being forced to carry medical insurance is no different than being forced to carry auto insurance, although I've a feeling you are opposed to that as well.

And, here it is. Where is it a requirement that a person has to have auto insurance, simply for being alive?
Am I against auto insurance? No. I'm not against health insurance, life insurance or property insurances. Am I against being mandated to purchase them? Yes. Would I carry it if it wasn't mandatory? As long as I could afford it, yes.

Ah, so you simply want to be able to do what you choose and accept the consequences when you make a mess of things.
Catastrophic illness, it's your fault you have no insurance, and you should be charged the full amount because it was your choice (no discount for being uninsured, you don't deserve it, since it was your choice).
No life insurance? That's ok, your next of kin is stuck with the bill when you die and since you are dead, it isn't your problem anyway.
You don't want to insure your property? No problem. When your house burns down or a sink hole sucks it up, no big deal, you made the choice, so now you can be out on the streets. Of course, your mortgage company is not likely to be thrilled that you didn't protect your property and they lost their investment entirely, but hey, your choice, you will just keep paying the mortgage.
No auto insurance? Yea, the law mandates it. It is there so that when you cause an accident, the insurance is there to protect the car you hit.

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Do you have to carry auto insurance for your kids, if you don't drive?

You insure the CAR, not the driver.

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Do you have to carry auto insurance if you don't drive?

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But, to update the question.... Do you have to carry auto insurance if you don't drive?

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Who said I don't like seat belts? I choose to wear them. I have always chosen to wear them (always as a kid; only in the front seat as an adult). I have never prevented anyone from wearing a seat belt if they so choose. I will not drive if a person isn't buckled up as a front-seat passenger in my vehicle (unless that person has a disability preventing him/her from buckling up).

So you have no problem with buckling, just with telling people they have too.

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Drunk driving laws penalize people who choose to drink and drive. Drunk driving laws, unless caught in a random sweep, don't have any effect on anyone that isn't caught doing something else illegal. If you aren't breaking any other motor vehicle law, you won't be pulled over for driving drunk, unless they see you leaving a bar, or they are doing a random sweep.

Except those killed by a drunk driver who hits and runs. Property damage in the middle of the night by someone who swipes a car and keeps in going. Lost of income for a business that a drunk driver caused by slamming into the front door of the business, closing that business for a week.

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Do you have to carry auto insurance for your kids, if you don't drive?

Anyone who has access to a vehicle and can drive it should have auto insurance.

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Anyone who has will ever need health care should also. Unless you can point to someone who will never need access to health care.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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But, to update the question.... Do you have to carry auto insurance if you don't drive?

In PA, if you own a car, you have to carry car insurance... even if you cant drive it.
If you have to have SR22 to maintain a driver's license, then you have to have insurance.

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What are you arguing here? I didn't call for the removal of drunk driving laws.

Do drunk driving laws effect someone who commits manslaughter and takes off? Surely don't, unless the person is caught. Same goes for sideswipes. Unless the person is caught, drunk driving laws don't have any effect on the perp in any of those situations you posed.

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Drunk driving laws penalize people who choose to drink and drive. Drunk driving laws, unless caught in a random sweep, don't have any effect on anyone that isn't caught doing something else illegal.

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So, if I have a driver's license and don't have my own vehicle, I should have insurance? Why? Simply having access to a vehicle and being capable of driving it certainly doesn't mean I'm going to, does it?

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You don't need health insurance for access to care. You've already shown that.

You need insurance to help pay for care. Whoops. Here comes that money thing you don't give a shit about.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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But, to update the question.... Do you have to carry auto insurance if you don't drive?

In PA, if you own a car, you have to carry car insurance... even if you cant drive it.
If you have to have SR22 to maintain a driver's license, then you have to have insurance.

So, no, I don't have to carry auto insurance if I choose to not have a car.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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But, to update the question.... Do you have to carry auto insurance if you don't drive?

In PA, if you own a car, you have to carry car insurance... even if you cant drive it.
If you have to have SR22 to maintain a driver's license, then you have to have insurance.

So, no, I don't have to carry auto insurance if I choose to not have a car.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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So, if I have a driver's license and don't have my own vehicle, I should have insurance? Why? Simply having access to a vehicle and being capable of driving it certainly doesn't mean I'm going to, does it?

Your kids who live with you, unless you sign an exemption, have to have insurance, usually covered on your own policy.
And the law doesnt assume you wont.

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You don't need health insurance for access to care. You've already shown that.
You need insurance to help pay for care. Whoops. Here comes that money thing you don't give a shit about.

No, you dont need health insurance or money for access to emergency care. There is a huge difference.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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But, to update the question.... Do you have to carry auto insurance if you don't drive?

In PA, if you own a car, you have to carry car insurance... even if you cant drive it.
If you have to have SR22 to maintain a driver's license, then you have to have insurance.

So, no, I don't have to carry auto insurance if I choose to not have a car.

Are you choosing not to live?

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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But, to update the question.... Do you have to carry auto insurance if you don't drive?

In PA, if you own a car, you have to carry car insurance... even if you cant drive it.
If you have to have SR22 to maintain a driver's license, then you have to have insurance.

So, no, I don't have to carry auto insurance if I choose to not have a car.

Thats not what you asked. I have no clue if you need SR22. I dont know if anyone else in your home allows you to drive their car without insurance. I dont know if you borrow friends vehicles. I dont know if you rent cars. I dont know if you have access to cars at work.
To say YOU dont need insurance, I could not possibly say, nor was that the question YOU asked.

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I could walk over to my neighbor's house and drive her van if I wanted to. If I don't own my own vehicle and have a driver's license, why do I need to have insurance? Access and ability have been satisfied, right?

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See how the word "care" is still in there, though?

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So, now I have to have health insurance if I don't commit suicide (that is, I'm choosing to live)?

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Ah, so now it's down to the specifics to my situation, rather than the general idea of "I/you." Got it. Nice diversion. Have fun with it. I'm not biting.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

1960 1.00 (minimum wage) 5.30 (1996 constant dollars)

2012 7.25 (minimum wage) 4.97 (1996 constant dollars)

Its peaked - 1968 1.60 7.21 - dropped below 6 in 1979, and has hovered between upper 4 and lower 5 ever since.

Comparing this generation of "kids" to our grandparents doesnt work.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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I'm not saying there aren't truly poor, desperate people who need a leg and hand up (and for those, we all should work a bit harder to take care of), but if you walk into many food stamp homes you find kids with X-boxes, 2 flat screen TV's, broadband for all, cell phones for all.

Flat screen tvs can be bought used... or at christmas with those black friday deals really cheap.. or relatives.
Cell phones... upgrades... ebay.... Boost...
Internet... along with cable... almost a necessity for students these days.. many communities offer discounts for poor

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He gave me enough money for a tank of gas and handed me the classifieds and said "when you have enough in the bank to pay for 6 months worth of rent, food and sundries, come see me and I'll teach you how to be rich".

Young, alone, no dependents, its possible. What about the rest?

It's just slightly easier than "simple":
Work hard. Just like your grandparents.
(Who had nothing...and to them "something" was a spectacular thing).
I'm not going to use the tired refrain of "kids today" because it's not....it's (most) who have not....today....
Wanna have more in the future? Have less now.
That's been a fact long before cell phones, long before FORD invented mass production, long before Otto Lillenthal came up with manned flight, long before they made Popes and long before fire.
Want a big crop next year? Save some seed.

Beans and rice, rice and beans. Cut all the corners you can to scrimp and save.

“Financial peace isn't the acquisition of stuff. It's learning to live on less than you make, so you can give money back and have money to invest. You can't win until you do this.”

“Act your wage.”

“If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else.”

“A budget is telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went."

All quotes from the financial guru, Dave Ramsey.

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

1960 1.00 (minimum wage) 5.30 (1996 constant dollars)

2012 7.25 (minimum wage) 4.97 (1996 constant dollars)

Its peaked - 1968 1.60 7.21 - dropped below 6 in 1979, and has hovered between upper 4 and lower 5 ever since.

Comparing this generation of "kids" to our grandparents doesnt work.

Honey...the same shit that worked for your grandparents....works today (for all of us).

Spend less...have more.

It's math.

(Inflation doesn't matter....it's the same shit since Socrates and before).

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Oh? Why does insurance rates for males higher than females if it's about the car?

But, to update the question.... Do you have to carry auto insurance if you don't drive?

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

1960 1.00 (minimum wage) 5.30 (1996 constant dollars)

2012 7.25 (minimum wage) 4.97 (1996 constant dollars)

Its peaked - 1968 1.60 7.21 - dropped below 6 in 1979, and has hovered between upper 4 and lower 5 ever since.

Comparing this generation of "kids" to our grandparents doesnt work.

Honey...the same shit that worked for your grandparents....works today (for all of us).

Spend less...have more.

It's math.

(Inflation doesn't matter....it's the same shit since Socrates and before).

If inflation is up, and wages are down, there is less money to save. You can only spend less to a point.

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So...tell me how it works.

I think I'm at a point where my ears are up....help me grasp this....you know where I'm coming from...you also know (I hope) that I'm eager for facts....teach me.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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So...tell me how it works.

I think I'm at a point where my ears are up....help me grasp this....you know where I'm coming from...you also know (I hope) that I'm eager for facts....teach me.

I just did. Rent will go only so low. Electricity, food, water, transportation back and forth to a job, clothing... all those things you can only cut so much. Its difficult to have a job without a phone, even if its just a landline. Kids, you need internet, its almost a requirement for school. If you are in college, its even more so.

So where do you cut? You can eat roman noodles, but then you are affecting your health because they are by no means nutritionally sound. Food pantries help, but even they are running out.

7.25 an hour means you are bringing home 5. 5 x 40 is 200. Two jobs may add another 150, because its hard to work two full time jobs and sleep, so assume the second is close to full time, not quite.

350 a week.... rent is rarely less than 600 a month

Two weeks there, plus food.

now there is two weeks left... 700... sounds like a lot.. add cable/internet, phone, travel, lunch (even if brought from home adds up in the food bill that isnt covered by the 50 a week for a single... kids.. forget it), power, toiletries, clothes, supplies.... what is left?

1400 a month working 2 jobs. (assuming someone is single)
600 rent
200 food
100 lunches
100 internet/home phone
50 cell phone
50 toiletries
100 travel (here that is bus, its even more if its a car)
50 power
25 water

And you still need clothes and meds, even the OTC kind to get you through.

Get truly sick and you are fucked. Add even one kid and its impossible.

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


But...Xboxes....3 TV's....isn't there something to be said for waiting for (building for) a better tomorrow? Isn't there something to be said for....trying/sacrificing?