RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 10:55:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

I am saying the british and america (and a few others) worked hand in hand to start both world wars (and several others) to take over, occupy, or otherwise install their psuedo government.



Strictly speaking, though, after World War I, there was no compelling reason or any real need for Britain or America to start a second war. They already won the First World War and had hegemony throughout the world (along with France). Germany was bankrupt and Russia was still reeling from World War, 2 Revolutions, and a Civil War. China was in similar dire straits.

If their goal was to take over the world, they already accomplished that, and, if true, the only reason for the Second World War would be a testament to the incompetence of the Western Allied governments in their inability to maintain their advantage and their hegemony over world affairs.

To me, that fact would indicate that they really weren't trying to build up any world wide empire, because if they wanted that, they could have just taken it - openly and without all the extracurricular falderal of a League of Nations, Kellogg-Briand Pact, Locarno Pact, or any of that stuff. If they were trying to build up an empire, then they botched it pretty badly.



gotta keep your eye on the ball. You snooze you lose.


[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/USDollarTitanicdollar.jpg[/image]


it should be painfully obvious if you understand what this ^^^^^ means, that is what actually as in substantially took place with respect to that chart.





mnottertail -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 11:07:03 AM)

Your ability to fetch balls aside, other than superfluous amounts of asswipe and graphics, that never have anything cogent or germaine.  What is the hegemony conspiracy today? 



Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 11:35:24 AM)

I "knew" some would take their eye off the ball, or wouldnt GET IT! lol


[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/USDollarTitanicWardollar.jpg[/image]

Um... the same hegemony of yesterday, and the day before, and the year before, and the decade before and the century before and so forth.

The question is who and by what mechanism profits from this?

after 200 years of getting the statist dick up our asses are there really people who still do not get it?

Really?





mnottertail -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 11:44:42 AM)

farmers profit from inflation as only one example.  If you are coming out of the closet with the dick up your ass thing, we ain't mad at ya.



vincentML -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 11:53:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

662 bases outside of the US or US territories. Do we really need that? Hell, do we really want that?


I agree completely...the US has always felt an obligation to be the worlds policeman. This is different however than Empire building. Time for us to mind our own business, especially now that we are energy independent. Let the world sort its self out but they had better leave us alone. I am all for keeping the strongest military in the world but keep it at home unless attacked.

The isolationist in me... the true me....lol


Butch

I suspect you did not read the article I posted. Your definition of empire building is quite different than the hegemony described in the OP article. Nowhere in it is there any suggestion that we had set out to build an Empire in the sense of past Mercantilist nations. The article is about avoiding world anarchy through hegemony. The US ended its Empire aspirations in 1898 or thereabouts . . . although we did remain entangled in South America through the 20th C, much of it was for Cold War reasons. Come on, Butch. Get off the spot you're stuck on and address the OP. thanks,[:)]



vincentML -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 11:57:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

theyre working on it.


on the other hand it is a proven fact the government is a house of cards built purely on fraud and sleight of hand






I swear if I posted a thread on Blondie and Dagwood you would find a way to vomit up the same old anti-goveernment bullshit you always do. Not one iota of intelligent response to the issue posed in the OP. What a freakin troll. And boring, soooooo boring. The same old shite.



Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 11:59:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

farmers profit from inflation as only one example.  If you are coming out of the closet with the dick up your ass thing, we ain't mad at ya.



really? DO TELL! how do farmers profit from the devaluation of the dollar?

maybe its the farmers that control the economy and ripping us off huh






Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 12:06:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

theyre working on it.


on the other hand it is a proven fact the government is a house of cards built purely on fraud and sleight of hand






I swear if I posted a thread on Blondie and Dagwood you would find a way to vomit up the same old anti-goveernment bullshit you always do. Not one iota of intelligent response to the issue posed in the OP. What a freakin troll. And boring, soooooo boring. The same old shite.



Hey its only politics and like a bicycle wheel all the spokes go to the center.

Fact is the supreme court abolished the citizen contract a long time ago.

The only reason government exists is for the protection of my rights (not theirs) and they are the first ones to take them away. Slight breach of contract, or breach of trust, or breach of fiduciary duty, or breach of oath, I could make an iron clad case in any or all of them.

they made it perfectly clear what they are protecting;
quote:


1.01  State sovereignty and jurisdiction. The sovereignty and jurisdiction of this state extend to all places within the boundaries declared in article II of the constitution, subject only to such rights of jurisdiction as have been or shall be acquired by the United States over any places therein; and the governor, and all subordinate officers of the state, shall maintain and defend its sovereignty and jurisdiction.



and it aint you

Thats how a military occupational government declaration would read.

you talked about anarchy and government and hegemony and they happen to be several of my favorite topics.

Can you tell us what the empirical-substantial-factual definition of a state is? Constitution maybe?

You did note they said "state" not "State"...LOL



mnottertail -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 12:13:58 PM)

I could, but then you would have to kill yourself.




Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 12:14:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

662 bases outside of the US or US territories. Do we really need that? Hell, do we really want that?


I agree completely...the US has always felt an obligation to be the worlds policeman. This is different however than Empire building. Time for us to mind our own business, especially now that we are energy independent. Let the world sort its self out but they had better leave us alone. I am all for keeping the strongest military in the world but keep it at home unless attacked.

The isolationist in me... the true me....lol


Butch

I suspect you did not read the article I posted. Your definition of empire building is quite different than the hegemony described in the OP article. Nowhere in it is there any suggestion that we had set out to build an Empire in the sense of past Mercantilist nations. The article is about avoiding world anarchy through hegemony. The US ended its Empire aspirations in 1898 or thereabouts . . . although we did remain entangled in South America through the 20th C, much of it was for Cold War reasons. Come on, Butch. Get off the spot you're stuck on and address the OP. thanks,[:)]


I addressed the OP head on, at its roots and you are not happy with that either. What do you want?

Your coming into the middle then claiming it had no beginning is intellectually dishonest, or you have not added the commerce clause into the mix.

Cold war? Yeh why was teslas world communications plan scrapped? and so was marconis hybrid system at bolinas. What effect do you think the ability to take a cheap couple hundred watt transmitter and talk to your pals in russia in 1920, what effect would have that had on the course of history?



Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 12:16:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I could, but then you would have to kill yourself.




awe come on lets see some good red herrings



mnottertail -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 12:34:34 PM)

quote:


empirical-substantial-factual definition


Here is some asswipe used on both sides for you, why fuck around with red herrings. 



Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 12:37:12 PM)

why dont you just admit you have no clue and be done with it.



stef -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 12:40:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

why dont you just admit you have no clue and be done with it.

Blessed irony.



Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 12:58:03 PM)

toilet getting too hot for you?

why dont you take over for these guys.

tell us what a citizen is and what a state IS.

Yes you can!
Yes you can!
Yes you can!
Yes you can!

here I will give you a hint
[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/catburglar.jpg[/image]


lets really dig into the roots of hegemony.





vincentML -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 1:08:18 PM)

quote:

Hey its only politics and like a bicycle wheel all the spokes go to the center.

Fact is the supreme court abolished the citizen contract a long time ago.

The only reason government exists is for the protection of my rights (not theirs) and they are the first ones to take them away. Slight breach of contract, or breach of trust, or breach of fiduciary duty, or breach of oath, I could make an iron clad case in any or all of them.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the OP unless you are a fantasy spewing troll.



Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 1:28:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Hey its only politics and like a bicycle wheel all the spokes go to the center.

Fact is the supreme court abolished the citizen contract a long time ago.

The only reason government exists is for the protection of my rights (not theirs) and they are the first ones to take them away. Slight breach of contract, or breach of trust, or breach of fiduciary duty, or breach of oath, I could make an iron clad case in any or all of them.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the OP unless you are a fantasy spewing troll.



Sure it does, its all interconnected. You are selling hegemony and stomping over other peoples rights as a solution, I am stating it is not, not only is it not a solution but where the hell does any country get jurisdiction to take over another country for presumed crimes of a couple individuals?

So lets talk about the right to invade other countries, it will still come right back here, to the construction of government, in an honest discussion.

Oh and I am not against government at large btw, "some" government is a necessity I am again nondisclosure and rogue elements that have overrun the government in the name of democracy that force their services upon us to collect monies then reneges on the deal when its time to stand up to their liabilities.

Thats a breach of everything, and doing it slowly over 200 years changes nothing?

That is known as extortion in most legal systems (among several other things).





mnottertail -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 1:28:56 PM)

Well you have never been able to define words, with necessary and sufficient conditions to be actual words, and I guess you could look them up in credible dictionaries and cite them as well as anyone here, rather than making up some frenetically ignorant asswipe definitions.

Besides which, we would have to understand the word for loom before we could understand the word citizen and be treated to a panegyric of horseshit and cretinous rewriting of history.



Real0ne -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 1:55:48 PM)

well I posted a couple of links long ago, you should start from the beginning rather than jump in the middle:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

nah thats a typical misrepresentation and disinformation.

These democracies are complete bullshit, unless you believe that voting in your next plantation lord and thats where it ends is democracy.

Anarchy is lack of government only NOT law.

In other words the only thing that would exist is the courts, and the law would be enforced by the forming of posses as they were needed rather than a standing corporate police force style army and the insanely growing police state.

Now if you are all paying attention you would find out that we have anarchy right now and what we believe is government has been overrun years ago.

Anarchy yields the most "individual" freedom as in free from government that is possible.

now this may be a bit much for people to wrap their heads around but for those who can its a real eye opening experience when you realize its all a house of cards that can only be supported by he who has the biggest guns. The courts have proven it. oh and if that last one is a bit to heavy, this is an x sheriff, no he quit lol




There is no jurisdiction, and if you got the goods there is a 5000 dollar prize being offered to the person who can prove that the state has any jurisdiction or authority over anyone other than those employed by the state.

So anyone here wants prove they do, such that it would pass judicial muster, you can have some easy beer money!

If they do not have jurisdiction over the people what gives them the authority to annihilate other nations?

I mean you know before you go justificating it all ok dokey.



kdsub -> RE: Anarchy & Hegemony: A defense of American Imperialism (4/26/2013 2:45:03 PM)

Vince I did read the article. What I am trying to get across to you is the US is very different then Empires of the past. I understand what he is trying to say... that during times of a domineering empire the world is more stable and better off because the powerful keep troublemakers in line.

This is just another way of saying survival of the fittest. I think our reign as preeminent power is new and different than so called Empires of the past. Rather than keep troubled nations in line with force of arms and economic power we have done it by providing a path for them to emulate our systems... At least we did up to the Bush administration.

Over the last hundred years just look at all the developing countries that have copied our form of government and fit it to their particular needs. By example rather than force we have changed the world forever without being an Empire. Even some of our bitter powerful enemies such as Russia and China realized our economic system was at the heart of our power and they have tried to copy it there by investing in a system that will discourage war.

Just my view right or wrong.

Butch



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