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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 2:09:59 PM   
searching4mysir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

it's great that he's come out as gay, but really it should be a case of who cares. when i see this kind of thing i tend to shake my head wondering why the hell some people are still so fucking backward in thinking. it really should be no big deal these days.

True.

Unfortunately, though, being gay still means second-class citizenship in many ways. A friend just posted a heartbreaking example on Facebook:

TX Man: After 34 Years My Partner's Sister Forced Us Apart, Took Our Home Because We Weren't Married

And I've shared elsewhere a story from my own family.




Why didn't the TX couple own the property jointly with rights of survivorship, and if he had power of attorney then how did the guardianship trump that? If I were with someone for 20+ years, I would expect my name on the deed.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 2:31:43 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Why didn't the TX couple own the property jointly with rights of survivorship, and if he had power of attorney then how did the guardianship trump that? If I were with someone for 20+ years, I would expect my name on the deed.

To be honest, I don't know their legal arrangements or how things work in Texas. I do know that gay couples often need a lot of complex (and expensive?) legal paperwork to approximate the protections granted by marriage.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 3:26:51 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

it's great that he's come out as gay, but really it should be a case of who cares. when i see this kind of thing i tend to shake my head wondering why the hell some people are still so fucking backward in thinking. it really should be no big deal these days.

True.

Unfortunately, though, being gay still means second-class citizenship in many ways. A friend just posted a heartbreaking example on Facebook:

TX Man: After 34 Years My Partner's Sister Forced Us Apart, Took Our Home Because We Weren't Married

And I've shared elsewhere a story from my own family.




Why didn't the TX couple own the property jointly with rights of survivorship, and if he had power of attorney then how did the guardianship trump that? If I were with someone for 20+ years, I would expect my name on the deed.

Guardianship awarded by the court trumps any other arrangement.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 7:33:25 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

I don't know, Level. It isn't as if I go around telling complete strangers "I like cock". Why is he defining himself by which gender he wants to sleep with, and why should anyone care in the first place?


Really? You never mention you have a boyfriend? If married, you don't wear a wedding ring or talk about where you went on vacation? You never talked to girl friends about the guys you dated, or said looking at a guy 'he's hot?'.

I read and hear this crap all the time, and it is laughable, the answer is that straight people 'flaunt their sexuality' all the time, but it is so common they don't see it. By coming out, gays are simply saying 'this is who I love, this is who I spend time with' and the right to do what straights do. If a straight couple goes down the street holding hands or kissing, you are saying 'they aren't flaunting it', but if a gay couple does, it is them 'flaunting it'. You watch tv or movies and you see all kinds of straights' flaunting it'; when we read about pro athletes, we constantly hear about their wives and kids, their affairs, their divorces, the gossip and sports pages are full of such references. You go to work, you see men and women wearing wedding rings, and office gossips talk about who is dating whom. People talk about their families, why should a gay person be quiet about whom they love?

The most obnoxious thing about this, and I would be willing to bet pretty good money the OP is Catholic, is the obsession with sex, that it is a guy who 'loves cock'. The church obsesses on gays, about the sex act (not surprising, given how absolutely medieval and backwards the RC is about sexuality even for straights). Would you define a straight couple simply by sex? Would you say to the woman flashing her engagement ring "Do I need to be reminded you love to get a dick in you every night?". No, unless you are some sort of real weirdo, you would congratulate her on finding a 'good catch', that it was great she found the one, etc.........

See, the thing about coming out as gay isn't about flaunting anything, it is about being open about whom they love, no different then straight couples,about being able to be open about their family, no different then straights. Being gay is no different then being straight in that regards, while sexual attraction is what often brings us together with who we end up loving, the relationship is so much more than that, the companionship, the sharing, the caring, all the things that make up finding a mate. To reduce gays to being what they do or don't do in the bedroom is like the old attitude that being a wife was in effect legalized prostitution, that marrying a woman was the price to have sex, and it is just as odious. If he had come out and said "I love sucking dick" it would be inappropriate, saying that he was attracted to men is no more 'flaunting it' then a straight athlete saying "this is my girlfriend' or 'this is my wife', absolutely no difference.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 7:46:04 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

it's great that he's come out as gay, but really it should be a case of who cares. when i see this kind of thing i tend to shake my head wondering why the hell some people are still so fucking backward in thinking. it really should be no big deal these days.

True.

Unfortunately, though, being gay still means second-class citizenship in many ways. A friend just posted a heartbreaking example on Facebook:

TX Man: After 34 Years My Partner's Sister Forced Us Apart, Took Our Home Because We Weren't Married

And I've shared elsewhere a story from my own family.




Why didn't the TX couple own the property jointly with rights of survivorship, and if he had power of attorney then how did the guardianship trump that? If I were with someone for 20+ years, I would expect my name on the deed.

Guardianship awarded by the court trumps any other arrangement.


In many states the legal arrangements of gay couples can be overridden if the person petitioning is a 'blood relative'. For example, gay couples in states where they don't allow two parent adoptions, can try and come up with legal guardianship of a child they have, but in the case where the bio parent dies that paperwork may not be worth anything if the relatives go to court and argue the child 'belongs to them' since they are kin. Legal documents giving rights of medical attorney (basically to make medical decisions) can be and often are ignored by hospitals, and courts, especially if a relative like a parent or brother, challenged that right, can rule against such documents (so much for the power of contracts to give gays rights).

The rednecks in North Carolina passed a constitutional amendment against same sex marriage that not only banned legal recognition of same sex marriage, it also banned giving gay couples any of the rights of marriage via contract or law.....charming, isn't it?

The reality is what you assume to be law isn't law, and if gays have to fight for basic legal rights a straight couple can take for granted something is wrong. A gay couple can be legally married, if one of them dies, a relative could challenge the spouse collecting their 401k as survivor, because 401k's are governed under Erisa which doesn't recognize same sex marriage, thanks to DOMA......

One of the biggest reasons for coming out is probably why the OP is upset about it, by coming out gays are no longer this mythical being painted as deviants and child molesters by evengelical douchebags and by the Catholic Church, when gays come out people see someone they know, they see a 7' center and realize that gays aren't all swishes or whatever, they realize that gays can be that nice guy next door who keeps an eye on a sick mother, the person you work with, and bigots cannot stand that, because they know when out in the open, surprise surprise, gays turn out not to be stereotypes, but people.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 7:52:57 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		I look forward to the day when an athlete being gay, or gay people getting married, gets no press or attention at all. It's responsible for all kinds of fuss now.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 7:55:26 PM   
Paladinagain


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Status: offline 		I look forward to the day we can go back to stoning them.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 8:18:45 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I look forward to the day when an athlete being gay, or gay people getting married, gets no press or attention at all. It's responsible for all kinds of fuss now.

I'm looking forward to the day there are no more homeless gay teens because their parents no longer kick them out but love them.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 8:35:30 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


One of the biggest reasons for coming out is probably why the OP is upset about it


Why do you think I'm upset about it?

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 8:46:03 PM   
FrostedFlake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paladinagain

I look forward to the day we can go back to stoning them.

You can stone them, now. And we, as you presume to be, can execute you. After a fair trial.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 8:50:28 PM   
FrostedFlake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


One of the biggest reasons for coming out is probably why the OP is upset about it


Why do you think I'm upset about it?

I suspect NJLauren overlooked that you were OP because of the obscuring glare of nearby searchlight.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 10:08:47 PM   
Determinist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I look forward to the day when an athlete being gay, or gay people getting married, gets no press or attention at all. It's responsible for all kinds of fuss now.



Too true. It *shouldn't* matter, but for a lot of people it does. My folks, for example, are virulently homophobic. Some communities are more tolerant than others and those people may not understand why it's significant for an athlete to make such an announcement. The thing is, the fuel of homophobia is ignorance; by being open and honest about his sexuality, he's giving his fans and teammates a personal connection that might cause some to inspect their prejudices closer, or debunk some misconceptions they had about gay folk.

When nobody cares, when articles such as these are meaningless - that will be a good day.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/29/2013 10:40:26 PM   
fmfclwu


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Status: offline 		Easily the best response:


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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/30/2013 4:25:39 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paladinagain

I look forward to the day we can go back to stoning them.

I look forward to the day when trolls all live under bridges without internet access.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/30/2013 4:56:53 AM   
Exidor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
18 anti gay organizations. 2010, Southern Poverty Law Center


You made some good points, but using the Southern Poverty Law Center as a reference was a gaffe. The Westboro Baptist Church concentrates on hating gays; the SPLC hates pretty much everybody, and has no problem inventing imaginary groups to hate when they get bored. Take a good look at their web site; you probably fit into more than one group they hate...

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/30/2013 12:57:24 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I look forward to the day when trolls all live under bridges without internet access.
I don't suppose you would happen to have a brother who is just like you, except he's submissive?



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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/30/2013 1:06:35 PM   
SeekingTrinity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paladinagain

I look forward to the day we can go back to stoning them.


I look forward to the day that intolerant "speshul snowflakes" get the head-from-rectum removal surgery they so desperately need. It must be painful snorkelling in your own ass like that.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/30/2013 1:11:09 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I look forward to the day when trolls all live under bridges without internet access.
I don't suppose you would happen to have a brother who is just like you, except he's submissive?



Sorry, LadyP. I'm an only and the last time I bottomed was '93.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/30/2013 2:40:06 PM   
dcnovice


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I found this quite moving:

Jason Collins' uniform tribute to Matthew Shepard draws tears, applause from Shepard's parents

I still have vivid memories of helping to craft a memorial service for Shepard at my church.



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" - 4/30/2013 2:54:14 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		I'm glad he came out, and is going to be a role model to young people who struggle with this. I wish people weren't so ignorant, acting like this is something you can contract by being in the vicinity of one.
I'm especially happy this isn't a trash newspaper article showing his private life for all to see. M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 4/30/2013 2:55:16 PM >

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