njlauren
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Aswad
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
That means, it's the US's fault that we are under terror attacks, not the fault of the terrorists.
And here's where you've made an unsupported leap.
When a someone gets sexually assaulted, it's not their fault it happened. When the assault is successful, that's also not their fault. However, most employ a strategy of risk management to minimize the chances it will happen. Those strategies can be improved. Similarly, many choose to offer resistance, which reduces the probability of an assault on them being successful. In short, they can influence their own lives in a manner that is positive. Or they can sit on their asses and say "but it shouldn't happen, and these people shouldn't do it!", which clearly isn't doing anyone much good, save perhaps the attackers.
The USA has made choices, and continues to make choices, that pessimize outcomes. That strategy can be improved. Now, sure, we could also have a discussion as to whether or not the USA is to blame for whatever. But we don't need to. That's not what she's been saying. She's been saying the USA can act in a manner that improves its own situation, rather than being a passive victim that does nothing to improve things (and often acts to aggravate them).
Fact of life: shit happens.
Question: what do we do about it?
Answer: we deal with it, as best we can.
Implication: you could do a whole lot better.
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Terrorists have a choice to use terror or not.
Yup. They made it, and presumably it was the best choice they could see.
Your move. Escalate or resolve?
quote:
While they may have very good reasons for being upset, there are ways outside of terrorism to express that opposition.
That thought has probably occured to all of them, just like it's occured to some that executions aren't needed to express opposition to serious crimes.
How do you propose the average uneducated person in the ME express their opposition?
Most importantly, how do you propose they make headway?
quote:
If a people or group who aren't perpetrating the terrorism are the ones that have to act in order to stop the terrorism, then the implication is that the terror attacks are acceptable and justified.
No, that conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.
In closing, I would like to ask you a question: if the president of Pakistan authorized an attack on par with the Boston marathon bombing once every three days and carried that out successfully for nine years, how long would you sit by, peacefully protesting it, before you hit Pakistan hard? And, if your gov't refused to do anything, or was unable to do anything, how long would you tolerate that before you picked other ways to get back at them or try to deter them? Generic you, here. As an American, what do you think your people would do?
Because I know what you did the last time 3.000 of your people were killed; I saw your streets brimming with hate and rage.
That's how many of their people have died in drone strikes in Pakistan— 160 Martin Richards, dead, at your hands.
So... what... a Facebook protest? Harsh language? T-shirts? Patience, high hopes and wish for a pony?
You know as well as I do, you would soak the ground in blood for ten years. Again.
Now, expectations having been set straight, who can solve this?
Lucky for you... you can; you have a choice.
Tweakabelle outlined it for you:
Terror or solutions?
I wish you well,
— Aswad.
Interesting circular argument, in that you forget why the US is doing drone strikes in Pakistan, something I am sure the people there totally ignore, that Pakistan isn't much of a country per se, and in a sense the US is doing what they are doing because the Pakistani government sucks. Northwest Pakistan in the tribal lands we are hitting with drones is full of al qaeda and taliban types, many of whom are leaders in the terrorist movement, and in those areas what passes for the Pakistani government has basically said be my guest, they have done nothing.
Pakistan got its nose bent out of joint when the US took out Bin Laden (what was he, 100 meters from their equivalent of West point!), yet if the US had told the government, Bin Laden would have been long gone (among other things, Pakistan's intelligence service, the ISI, is full of Pashtun tribespeople closely aligned with the Taliban and Al Qaeda). Pakistan also through its top nuclear scientist spread nuclear technology to North Korea and Iran, so it isn't exactly like the US just decided to do what they are doing in Pakistan for fun.
You can play wheels within wheels, you can point out all the stupid things the US have done, but the reality of terrorism is that it brings a lot more shit on those who do it then they ever get. Taking down the WTC was a disaster, it didn't change the plight of the palestinians , it didn't settle any of the issues in the middle east, it made it worse, and always does. Terrorists think that 'striking blows for freedom' like that will work, but they rarely do. The Germans bombed the shit out of England, it was terrorism, pure and simple, it was one of the first times that civilian populations were targeted directly, trying to cower them (it didn't work).....
Is religion behind terrorism? No, it is as others say, people feeling like they are oppressed, like they have a cause (and in many cases they do), they are angry, hurt, and want to lash out. Islam is a convenient tool, for example, to feed that hate, because Islam is predicated on social justice, and there is such a glaring disparity between what the Q'ran preaches and what these people live that they feel justified in using terms like Jihad to justify terrorism. The Q'Ran doesn't, but when you have been told by your holy book and preachers that social injustice offends Allah, when you are told Islam is the right way to live and yet your lives are misery, you are faced with one of two things....either dropping the faith, and saying it doesn't work, or you take the second option, and blame something else (when there could be a third option, actually figuring out that the faith isn't to blame but rather their idea of it is, or that the forces they blame are part of the cause, but looking at the reality). Take a combination of economic and social injustice, mix it with ignorance and ill education, and it is explosive.
The arguments that this is all the fault of US Policy and such is a bit dubious, if only that the Middle East has been troubled for many, many centuries. Despotic leaders have been the norm there, the "Palestinians" have never had their own country in the history of the place, for example, they were subject to the Romans, then the foreign tribesmen, then the Ottoman Empire until 1918, then it was a British Protectorate, and then Israel came into being in 1948, and the whole time they were treated like crap, oppressed, denied real rights, etc..likewise much of the middle east was home to tribal warlords and before oil, was poor and not exactly modern. Oil and the cold war caused all kinds of problems, and that has left a legacy, too.
The sad part about Terrorism is it has done very little to change things. The only terrorism I know of that was effective is when radical muslims took over I believe the grand Mosque in Mecca, it scared the crap out of the Saudi Government, and in response they started paying off the radicals (wonder how terrorism happens? Give you a clue, 30% of petro dollars going to the middle east are 'lost'), they started being radical Madras schools all over the middle east and the world, and in effect helped fuel what became Al Qaeda and the like (I can tell you there are sections of the official report on 9/11, that Bush had redacted in the published reports, that there was strong evidence that members of the Saudi Royal family were part of the financial backing of the plot and were giving a lot of money to Bin Laden and various terrorist groups, I am certain of it, two people I know who are ex intelligence agents said it was common knowledge).
In terms of effectiveness, there is very little to justify it. 9/11 caused severe pain, but in the end, it caused the deaths of 100,000 Iraqis, who knows how many Afghanies, it caused Muslims in the US untold anguish and made them suspect, even to this day, and it has led to the drone attacks in Pakistan (which if the Pakistani government was actually a government, wouldn't need to happen, they would be fighting the terrorists, rather than supporting them). As a return on investment, it stinks, pure and simple. Chechens and Kazaks are going to find that out in the wake of the Boston bombing, they have now joined the list of the dammed, fairly or unfairly, because of what these two assholes did.
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RE: Spinoff from the "Don't blame religion..."... - 
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