quote:

This past week we saw a remarkable example of the whipping-up of outrage over ALLEGED PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS. THE STORY TURNED OUT TO BE BOGUS.

Christian Right leaders are scrambling to recover.

And its getting ugly.

IT ALL STARTED WHEN SEVERAL PROMINENT MILITARY REFORMERS MET WITH TOP BRASS AT THE PENTAGON TO EXPRESS CONCERN ABOUT, AMONG OTHER THINGS, THE PERSISTENT ABUSE OF THE RIGHTS OF CONSCIENCE OF MILITARY PERSONNEL, ESPECIALLY BY "DOMINIONIST" EVANGELICALS. These included Mikey Weinstein, head of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and himself a USAF Academy graduate and a former counsel in the Reagan White House, and two members of the MRFF board, retired Lt Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, the former chief of staff to Colin Powell, and former U.S. Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson (who blew the whistle on the fabricated claim that Iraq obtained uranium from Niger, that was part of the justification for war).

Then FOX NEWS FALSELY REPORTED (further exaggerated and promoted by Breitbart.com) THAT A NEW PENTAGON POLICY, UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF WEINSTEIN, COULD LEAD TO THE COURT MARSHAL OF EVANGELICALS FOR SHARING THEIR FAITH. THIS WAS QUICKLY SHOWN TO BE BALONEY. But THE CHRISTIAN POST WENT SO FAR AS TO FALSELY REPORT THAT THE PENTAGON WAS EMPLOYING WEINSTEIN TO HELP MAKE POLICY. IT ALSO ATTRIBUTED WEINSTEIN'S ALLEGED ANTI-CHRISTIAN VIEWS TO HIS JUDAISM.

quote:

"The Pentagon has hired a Jewish activist who has been outspoken in his opposition to conservative Christianity to serve as a consultant and develop new policies on religious tolerance."

The article went on to say that Weinstein "has been named by Forward Magazine as one of the most influential Jewish people in America."

THAT THE CHRISTIAN POST WAS SO QUICK TO BLAME THE ENTIRE BOGUS AFFAIR ON A JEW WAS, TO SAY THE LEAST, TELLING.....

Over the past few years many abuses have surfaced across all of the armed services. Here are a few examples:

* THE DISSEMINATION OF ANTI-JEWISH COMIC BOOKS;

* THE MANDATORY, EVANGELICALLY SLANTED "SPIRITUAL FITNESS" PROGRAM OF THE U.S. ARMY;

* THE FALSE, CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST HISTORY TAUGHT IN THE CURRICULA OF THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT'S JROTC PROGRAM;

* AN EFFORT BY CAMPUS CRUSADE FOR CHRIST TO TURN SOLDIERS INTO MISSIONARIES;

* THE EFFORT BY THE PENTAGON CHAPLAIN'S OFFICE TO DISSEMINATE THE CONTROVERSIAL LEFT BEHIND 'CONVERT OR DIE' VIDEO GAME TO TROOPS IN THE FIELD; and

* THE APPEARANCES BY ACTIVE DUTY GENERALS IN UNIFORM IN A PROMOTIONAL VIDEO FOR THE CHRISTIAN EMBASSY, A PROJECT OF CAMPUS CRUSADE FOR CHRIST.

There are of course, many violations of separation of church and state involved here, but perhaps of greater concern is the spread of a coercive and divisive culture of aggressive proselytization, including compulsory attendance at military sponsored evangelical events documented by MRFF - and not merely the soft notion of "sharing of faith."

THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT HAS MOVED QUICKLY TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND SHIFT THE FOCUS TO THE PERSON OF MIKEY WEINSTEIN, HIS COLORFUL RHETORIC, HIS JEWISH IDENTITY, AND A SERIES OF FALSE STORIES ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP TO PENTAGON POLICIES.

But it won't work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I truly cannot answer why so many Americans are ignorant of the purpose of part of the First Amendment. It was to protect people of minority religious faith from the tyranny of the majority. In other words, to protect other people from exactly what seems to be going on by the Christian majority - both in the military, but also outside of it.

Add to this the typical hype and hysteria of the right-wing press - and there you have it. Journalists who desecrate the the First Amendment protection of the press to spread lies.

For many, many reasons, Thomas Jefferson would absolutely be turning in his grave. It's only taken a little over 220 years to reduce the Bill of Rights to historical footnote.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

There's nothing at all new about the church claiming to be the victim while actually being the bully of the piece. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all do it. The leaders all claim that everybody is out to get them in order to justify everything they do in the service of a naked power grab.

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I truly cannot answer why so many Americans are ignorant of the purpose of part of the First Amendment. It was to protect people of minority religious faith from the tyranny of the majority. In other words, to protect other people from exactly what seems to be going on by the Christian majority - both in the military, but also outside of it.

Add to this the typical hype and hysteria of the right-wing press - and there you have it. Journalists who desecrate the the First Amendment protection of the press to spread lies.

For many, many reasons, Thomas Jefferson would absolutely be turning in his grave. It's only taken a little over 220 years to reduce the Bill of Rights to historical footnote.

Please tell us how many "minority" religions were there in colonial America that needed "protection" when the amendment was written? The church of England was in effect a government mandated church. If you did not belong to it, you could not get any responsible job or position.

Thus, the founding fathers didn't want the new American people to be told by government what church you had to join. Just like it says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF. This part, unless you have a reading comprehension problem, clearly states you can wear a cross, a star of David, a Muslim cresent, or any religious symbol ANYWHERE, even in a school or government building! How in the hell else can this "You cannot be prevented the free exercise of your religion," be interpreted? The "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" means exactly what it says. Government cannot establish a "Church of America." That's it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

This past week we saw a remarkable example of the whipping-up of outrage over ALLEGED PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS. THE STORY TURNED OUT TO BE BOGUS.

Christian Right leaders are scrambling to recover.

And its getting ugly.

IT ALL STARTED WHEN SEVERAL PROMINENT MILITARY REFORMERS MET WITH TOP BRASS AT THE PENTAGON TO EXPRESS CONCERN ABOUT, AMONG OTHER THINGS, THE PERSISTENT ABUSE OF THE RIGHTS OF CONSCIENCE OF MILITARY PERSONNEL, ESPECIALLY BY "DOMINIONIST" EVANGELICALS. These included Mikey Weinstein, head of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and himself a USAF Academy graduate and a former counsel in the Reagan White House, and two members of the MRFF board, retired Lt Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, the former chief of staff to Colin Powell, and former U.S. Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson (who blew the whistle on the fabricated claim that Iraq obtained uranium from Niger, that was part of the justification for war).

Then FOX NEWS FALSELY REPORTED (further exaggerated and promoted by Breitbart.com) THAT A NEW PENTAGON POLICY, UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF WEINSTEIN, COULD LEAD TO THE COURT MARSHAL OF EVANGELICALS FOR SHARING THEIR FAITH. THIS WAS QUICKLY SHOWN TO BE BALONEY. But THE CHRISTIAN POST WENT SO FAR AS TO FALSELY REPORT THAT THE PENTAGON WAS EMPLOYING WEINSTEIN TO HELP MAKE POLICY. IT ALSO ATTRIBUTED WEINSTEIN'S ALLEGED ANTI-CHRISTIAN VIEWS TO HIS JUDAISM.

quote:

"The Pentagon has hired a Jewish activist who has been outspoken in his opposition to conservative Christianity to serve as a consultant and develop new policies on religious tolerance."

The article went on to say that Weinstein "has been named by Forward Magazine as one of the most influential Jewish people in America."

THAT THE CHRISTIAN POST WAS SO QUICK TO BLAME THE ENTIRE BOGUS AFFAIR ON A JEW WAS, TO SAY THE LEAST, TELLING.....

Over the past few years many abuses have surfaced across all of the armed services. Here are a few examples:

* THE DISSEMINATION OF ANTI-JEWISH COMIC BOOKS;

* THE MANDATORY, EVANGELICALLY SLANTED "SPIRITUAL FITNESS" PROGRAM OF THE U.S. ARMY;

* THE FALSE, CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST HISTORY TAUGHT IN THE CURRICULA OF THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT'S JROTC PROGRAM;

* AN EFFORT BY CAMPUS CRUSADE FOR CHRIST TO TURN SOLDIERS INTO MISSIONARIES;

* THE EFFORT BY THE PENTAGON CHAPLAIN'S OFFICE TO DISSEMINATE THE CONTROVERSIAL LEFT BEHIND 'CONVERT OR DIE' VIDEO GAME TO TROOPS IN THE FIELD; and

* THE APPEARANCES BY ACTIVE DUTY GENERALS IN UNIFORM IN A PROMOTIONAL VIDEO FOR THE CHRISTIAN EMBASSY, A PROJECT OF CAMPUS CRUSADE FOR CHRIST.

There are of course, many violations of separation of church and state involved here, but perhaps of greater concern is the spread of a coercive and divisive culture of aggressive proselytization, including compulsory attendance at military sponsored evangelical events documented by MRFF - and not merely the soft notion of "sharing of faith."

THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT HAS MOVED QUICKLY TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND SHIFT THE FOCUS TO THE PERSON OF MIKEY WEINSTEIN, HIS COLORFUL RHETORIC, HIS JEWISH IDENTITY, AND A SERIES OF FALSE STORIES ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP TO PENTAGON POLICIES.

But it won't work.

Or will it?

Christian Right Default: Blame The jews

In my 27 years in an Army uniform (1969-1996), I saw many examples of discrimination against soldiers who were not Protestant Christians, and as one individual NCO (who, by the way, is a Christian himself), I could not do a lot to prevent it. I am glad to see that this issue is getting attention at higher levels. Now it's not getting "swept under the rug".

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I truly cannot answer why so many Americans are ignorant of the purpose of part of the First Amendment. It was to protect people of minority religious faith from the tyranny of the majority. In other words, to protect other people from exactly what seems to be going on by the Christian majority - both in the military, but also outside of it.

Add to this the typical hype and hysteria of the right-wing press - and there you have it. Journalists who desecrate the the First Amendment protection of the press to spread lies.

For many, many reasons, Thomas Jefferson would absolutely be turning in his grave. It's only taken a little over 220 years to reduce the Bill of Rights to historical footnote.

Please tell us how many "minority" religions were there in colonial America that needed "protection" when the amendment was written? The church of England was in effect a government mandated church. If you did not belong to it, you could not get any responsible job or position.

Thus, the founding fathers didn't want the new American people to be told by government what church you had to join. Just like it says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF. This part, unless you have a reading comprehension problem, clearly states you can wear a cross, a star of David, a Muslim cresent, or any religious symbol ANYWHERE, even in a school or government building! How in the hell else can this "You cannot be prevented the free exercise of your religion," be interpreted? The "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" means exactly what it says. Government cannot establish a "Church of America." That's it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

In my 27 years in an Army uniform (1969-1996), I saw many examples of discrimination against soldiers who were not Protestant Christians, and as one individual NCO (who, by the way, is a Christian himself), I could not do a lot to prevent it. I am glad to see that this issue is getting attention at higher levels. Now it's not getting "swept under the rug".

quote:

“The armed forces are on the verge of falling apart,” Larry Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell, told me in an interview. Aside from proselytizing, he said, other problems include “sexual assault, suicides, lowering entrance standards and war weariness. They are in trouble, and the leadership is oblivious.” Sexual assault and proselytizing, according to Wilkerson, “are absolutely destructive of the bonds that keep soldiers together.”

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Many people from Europe fled due to religious persecution. That is one foundation of the religious freedom portion of the First Amendment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Many people from Europe fled due to religious persecution. That is one foundation of the religious freedom portion of the First Amendment.

show me just one "state" constitution that acknowledges the freedom to exercise your religion? I double dare you! and should you get lucky enough to find one then look to the police authority of the statist religion and I assure you it will be regulated out of your existence.

In america you have the right to pray and you only have that right because the "established statist religion" can not stop you.

you come to america you leave your religion behind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
and secular humanism is in fact a religion, hence the government is an establishment of religion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Many people from Europe fled due to religious persecution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF. This part, unless you have a reading comprehension problem, clearly states you can wear a cross, a star of David, a Muslim cresent, or any religious symbol ANYWHERE, even in a school or government building! How in the hell else can this "You cannot be prevented the free exercise of your religion," be interpreted?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Many people from Europe fled due to religious persecution.

Yes, but that was mostly Jewish immigrants. A lot of the first wave of Christian settlers were the sort of puritans who found Europe far too ecumenical for their taste.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF. This part, unless you have a reading comprehension problem, clearly states you can wear a cross, a star of David, a Muslim cresent, or any religious symbol ANYWHERE, even in a school or government building! How in the hell else can this "You cannot be prevented the free exercise of your religion," be interpreted?

You can wear a cross, a Star of David, a Moslem Crescent - off-duty and not when you are wearing your military uniform. And the military regulations do not prohibit that.

However, you cannot (legally) refuse to promote a subordinate because of their religion or lack of it, you cannot preach to them or try to convert them to your religion or your atheism while on duty or in uniform off-duty, you cannot select a subordinate for undesirable duties such as guard duty or kitchen police (KP) because of their religion or lack of it while selecting subordinates for privileges based on their following the same religion as yourself or for being atheists if you yourself are an atheist.

“The free exercise of your religion” doesn’t not allow you to discriminate against or oppress someone else because they are followers of a different religion than you or are atheists.

Or is your argument that the 1st Amendment’s “the free exercise of your religion” allows you to discriminate against or oppress someone else because they are followers of a different religion than you or are atheists?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Many people from Europe fled due to religious persecution.

Yes, but that was mostly Jewish immigrants. A lot of the first wave of Christian settlers were the sort of puritans who found Europe far too ecumenical for their taste.

Not really. The anabaptists and baptists both came to the colonies seeking religious liberty. The Quakers under William Penn founded Pennsylvania specifically to escape persecution against them by other englishmen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
Is your point that someone wearing a religious symbol, is "discriminating" against some other religion? That makes about as much sense as saying a chick wearing a tennis bracelet is "discriminating" against some chick wearing a watch, or another chick with no jewelry!

quote:

You can wear a cross, a Star of David, a Moslem Crescent - off-duty and not when you are wearing your military uniform. And the military regulations do not prohibit that.

quote:

you cannot (legally) refuse to promote a subordinate because of their religion or lack of it, you cannot preach to them or try to convert them to your religion or your atheism while on duty or in uniform off-duty, you cannot select a subordinate for undesirable duties such as guard duty or kitchen police (KP) because of their religion or lack of it while selecting subordinates for privileges based on their following the same religion as yourself or for being atheists if you yourself are an atheist.