California has the right idea, and it will save money (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/6/2013 8:31:51 PM)

quote:


Calif. objects to moving inmates because of fungus

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — It is premature to move more than 3,000 inmates out of two state prisons until more is known about an airborne fungus that is being blamed for nearly three-dozen inmate deaths and hundreds of hospitalizations, Gov. Jerry Brown's administration said in a court filing Monday night.

The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the affiliated National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health agreed last week to study problems with valley fever at Avenal and Pleasant Valley state prisons.

U.S. District Judge Thelton Henderson of San Francisco should wait for the centers' recommendations before enforcing an order last week by the federal official who controls prison medical care, the administration said.

J. Clark Kelso, the federal receiver, says more black, Filipino and medically at-risk inmates have contracted the illness, leading to his order that the state exclude them from the prisons.

source


quote:

Coccidioidomycosis (pron.: /kɒkˌsɪdiɔɪdoʊmaɪˈkoʊsɪs/, (kok-sid-e-oy-doh-my-KOH-sis), commonly known as "Valley fever",[1] as well as "California fever",[1] "Desert rheumatism",[1] and "San Joaquin Valley fever"[1]) is a fungal disease caused by Coccidioides immitis or C. posadasii.[2] It is endemic in certain parts of Arizona, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Utah and northwestern Mexico.[3]

C. immitis resides in the soil in certain parts of the southwestern United States, northern Mexico, and parts of Central and South America.[4] It is dormant during long dry spells, then develops as a mold with long filaments that break off into airborne spores when the rains come. The spores, known as arthroconidia, are swept into the air by disruption of the soil, such as during construction, farming, or an earthquake.[5]

Infection is caused by inhalation of the particles. The disease is not transmitted from person to person. The infection ordinarily resolves leaving the patient with a specific immunity to re-infection.[6]C. immitis is a dimorphic saprophytic organism that grows as a mycelium in the soil and produces a spherule form in the host organism.
Source


I mean lets face it, to get rid of the fungus, they would have to get rid of all the soil in the area.

What are the going to do, move the prisons?




DesideriScuri -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/6/2013 9:10:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:


Calif. objects to moving inmates because of fungus
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — It is premature to move more than 3,000 inmates out of two state prisons until more is known about an airborne fungus that is being blamed for nearly three-dozen inmate deaths and hundreds of hospitalizations, Gov. Jerry Brown's administration said in a court filing Monday night.
The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the affiliated National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health agreed last week to study problems with valley fever at Avenal and Pleasant Valley state prisons.
U.S. District Judge Thelton Henderson of San Francisco should wait for the centers' recommendations before enforcing an order last week by the federal official who controls prison medical care, the administration said.
J. Clark Kelso, the federal receiver, says more black, Filipino and medically at-risk inmates have contracted the illness, leading to his order that the state exclude them from the prisons.
source

quote:

Coccidioidomycosis (pron.: /kɒkˌsɪdiɔɪdoʊmaɪˈkoʊsɪs/, (kok-sid-e-oy-doh-my-KOH-sis), commonly known as "Valley fever",[1] as well as "California fever",[1] "Desert rheumatism",[1] and "San Joaquin Valley fever"[1]) is a fungal disease caused by Coccidioides immitis or C. posadasii.[2] It is endemic in certain parts of Arizona, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Utah and northwestern Mexico.[3]
C. immitis resides in the soil in certain parts of the southwestern United States, northern Mexico, and parts of Central and South America.[4] It is dormant during long dry spells, then develops as a mold with long filaments that break off into airborne spores when the rains come. The spores, known as arthroconidia, are swept into the air by disruption of the soil, such as during construction, farming, or an earthquake.[5]
Infection is caused by inhalation of the particles. The disease is not transmitted from person to person. The infection ordinarily resolves leaving the patient with a specific immunity to re-infection.[6]C. immitis is a dimorphic saprophytic organism that grows as a mycelium in the soil and produces a spherule form in the host organism.
Source

I mean lets face it, to get rid of the fungus, they would have to get rid of all the soil in the area.
What are the going to do, move the prisons?


I just heard inside my head that CA is going to have a vote to legalize the Death Penalty. But, since that's too violent, they are going to lock the criminals up in these two facilities...




TheHeretic -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/6/2013 9:17:16 PM)

It's a fucking outrage.




Lucylastic -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/6/2013 9:38:39 PM)

Im gonna agree with Rich




TheHeretic -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/6/2013 9:43:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Im gonna agree with Rich



Huh. You must have misunderstood my meaning then. I was talking about the order to relocate them in the first place.




jlf1961 -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/6/2013 9:48:50 PM)

Care to explain what exactly is the outrage?


Valley Fever is caused by a fungus, which lies dormant in the soil in parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and parts of Mexico. As I said, if they really want to protect the prisoners from this disease, they will have to take the surface soil out of the valley, at least the first couple of feet, and some how treat it, perhaps incinerating it to kill the fungus, and then dispose of it.

Of course the soil inside the prison compound probably has the fungus in it as well.

This is not like black mold which grows inside walls where there is moisture.

Like I said, they either have to move the topsoil, or move the prisons.




TheHeretic -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/6/2013 9:57:53 PM)

Valley fever cases are up, period, and a fuckload more people are at risk from it, other than a bunch of goddamn convicts.

Thousands of acres west of here have been scraped completely bare of all vegetation, to install solar fields, and I sure don't see a check in my mailbox to relocate.





Real0ne -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/6/2013 10:16:03 PM)

well if the state has no duty to insure their safety while in custody, may as well just shoot em all and get it over with [8|]




jlf1961 -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/6/2013 10:22:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Valley fever cases are up, period, and a fuckload more people are at risk from it, other than a bunch of goddamn convicts.

Thousands of acres west of here have been scraped completely bare of all vegetation, to install solar fields, and I sure don't see a check in my mailbox to relocate.





Yeah, I know valley fever cases are up, as much as 830% in some areas, and yes it is true that if vegetation is left in place, even drought resistant grasses it would lower the chance of the spores spreading dramatically.

That was my whole point about the op.

So heretic, I actually agree with you.

Now people, read the real fucking problem, and remember that very few forms of solar power are actually efficient, and those that are require a lot of area to work.

quote:

VALLEY FEVER EPIDEMIC LINKED TO DESERT SOLAR CONSTRUCTION; HEIGHTENS CONCERNS OVER RISKS FROM LARGE-SCALE WIND AND SOLAR PROJECTS

“The threat of acquiring the respiratory illness extends to residents living near expansive construction sites. That risk is rising given the scope of the renewable energy boom centered in the state.” – Los Angeles Times

May 6, 2013 (San Diego’s East County) – Valley Fever has sickened 28 workers at two large-scale solar facilities under construction in San Luis Obispo County, the Los Angeles Times reported on April 30. The disease is contracted by breathing in fungal spores released when desert soils are disturbed.

The finding is the latest in a series of disturbing reports on epidemic Valley Fever conditions in California and across the Southwest. With numerous large-scale solar projects and wind projects proposed for East County that would scrape bare thousands of acres of high desert terrain, public health concerns over the prospect of exposing residents to Valley Fever are growing. Since wind-blown spores can carry 75 miles or more, residents across San Diego County could be at risk of the potentially deadly disease.

Source



quote:

Valley fever rates rising in Western United States
<snip>
Nationwide, the number of valley fever cases rose by more than 850 percent from 1998 through 2011, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). In 2011, there were nearly 22,000 cases, with most cases reported in California and Arizona.

In California, according to the CDC, valley fever cases rose from about 700 in 1998 to more than 5,500 cases reported in 2011. The disease has seen the sharpest rise in Kern County, followed by Kings and Fresno counties.

Out of the 18,776 California cases between 2001 and 2008, 265 people died, according to the state health department.

Arizona saw an even steeper rise: The number of reported cases there went from 1,400 in 1998 to 16,400 in 2011, with the highest rates of infection occurring in Maricopa, Pima and Pinal counties.

Drought periods can have an especially potent impact on valley fever if they follow periods of rain, said Galgiani. Rainfall leads to fungus bloom, but limits dust.

<snip>

Valley fever rates


So who the hell cares about a few thousand inmates, they are in no more danger than the rest of the population in the region.




Lucylastic -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/7/2013 6:45:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Im gonna agree with Rich



Huh. You must have misunderstood my meaning then. I was talking about the order to relocate them in the first place.

nah rich, I didnt misunderstand your meaning...you didnt share it... you simply stated its a fucking outrage....
Now as a bleeding heart liberal, deaths of people, under government or private care worries me... yep Ill freely admit to it, even prison inmates.However... I do understand, the "ramifications" of what making them "healthy" would entail. Moving three thousand prisoners, time wise, security wise, logistically speaking would be a financial outrage. How do you find accommodations as such short notice, for people who need special handling. well in this case obviously you dont. The prisons seem to handle low to medium and maximum security prisoners.... I doubt they have the POs to handle it, or the travel security, or the facilities to even send them too. Let alone all the shit needed to house them, food, bedding clothes, kitchen, laundry equipment etc etc ad nauseam. so actually, yes...I agree with you..
Sorry about that..I know you hate it when that happens.




Hillwilliam -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/7/2013 10:25:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Valley fever cases are up, period, and a fuckload more people are at risk from it, other than a bunch of goddamn convicts.

Thousands of acres west of here have been scraped completely bare of all vegetation, to install solar fields, and I sure don't see a check in my mailbox to relocate.





Yeah, I know valley fever cases are up, as much as 830% in some areas, and yes it is true that if vegetation is left in place, even drought resistant grasses it would lower the chance of the spores spreading dramatically.

That was my whole point about the op.

So heretic, I actually agree with you.

Now people, read the real fucking problem, and remember that very few forms of solar power are actually efficient, and those that are require a lot of area to work.

quote:

VALLEY FEVER EPIDEMIC LINKED TO DESERT SOLAR CONSTRUCTION; HEIGHTENS CONCERNS OVER RISKS FROM LARGE-SCALE WIND AND SOLAR PROJECTS

“The threat of acquiring the respiratory illness extends to residents living near expansive construction sites. That risk is rising given the scope of the renewable energy boom centered in the state.” – Los Angeles Times

May 6, 2013 (San Diego’s East County) – Valley Fever has sickened 28 workers at two large-scale solar facilities under construction in San Luis Obispo County, the Los Angeles Times reported on April 30. The disease is contracted by breathing in fungal spores released when desert soils are disturbed.

The finding is the latest in a series of disturbing reports on epidemic Valley Fever conditions in California and across the Southwest. With numerous large-scale solar projects and wind projects proposed for East County that would scrape bare thousands of acres of high desert terrain, public health concerns over the prospect of exposing residents to Valley Fever are growing. Since wind-blown spores can carry 75 miles or more, residents across San Diego County could be at risk of the potentially deadly disease.

Source



quote:

Valley fever rates rising in Western United States
<snip>
Nationwide, the number of valley fever cases rose by more than 850 percent from 1998 through 2011, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). In 2011, there were nearly 22,000 cases, with most cases reported in California and Arizona.

In California, according to the CDC, valley fever cases rose from about 700 in 1998 to more than 5,500 cases reported in 2011. The disease has seen the sharpest rise in Kern County, followed by Kings and Fresno counties.

Out of the 18,776 California cases between 2001 and 2008, 265 people died, according to the state health department.

Arizona saw an even steeper rise: The number of reported cases there went from 1,400 in 1998 to 16,400 in 2011, with the highest rates of infection occurring in Maricopa, Pima and Pinal counties.

Drought periods can have an especially potent impact on valley fever if they follow periods of rain, said Galgiani. Rainfall leads to fungus bloom, but limits dust.

<snip>

Valley fever rates


So who the hell cares about a few thousand inmates, they are in no more danger than the rest of the population in the region.

So it's linked to recent solar power construction projects but thousands of square miles of subdivisions and agriculture didn't affect it.

Fascinating.




jlf1961 -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/7/2013 1:57:38 PM)

Hill, the prison problem is not linked to the solar power project.
the prison problem is linked to the drought in California, the agricultural development in the area of the prisons, and yes subdivisions.

Heretic brought up the solar power plant and the land being cleared for those projects local to him, and thus creating loose soil to be blown by the wind.

In most subdivision projects, the final step is landscaping, either by the home buyer or the developer. However during construction, the dirt is there to be blown around.

No after doing a little research on what an Environmental Impact Statement covers, I would have thought the possibility of spreading disease bearing fungal spores would have been listed as an "Adverse Environmental Change."

Which I would have thought would trump the benefits of the project in question.





Hillwilliam -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/7/2013 2:32:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Hill, the prison problem is not linked to the solar power project.
the prison problem is linked to the drought in California, the agricultural development in the area of the prisons, and yes subdivisions.

Heretic brought up the solar power plant and the land being cleared for those projects local to him, and thus creating loose soil to be blown by the wind.

In most subdivision projects, the final step is landscaping, either by the home buyer or the developer. However during construction, the dirt is there to be blown around.

No after doing a little research on what an Environmental Impact Statement covers, I would have thought the possibility of spreading disease bearing fungal spores would have been listed as an "Adverse Environmental Change."

Which I would have thought would trump the benefits of the project in question.



Again, wouldn't it also trump any plowing for agriculture, grading for roads or construction?

We have a disease with about a 1.4% fatality rate (265/18776) that is exacerbated by droughts.

What is causing more droughts? Uhhhh, some kind of change?




jlf1961 -> RE: California has the right idea, and it will save money (5/7/2013 3:25:48 PM)

Hill, unfortunately, land that has been in cultivation for a period of time prior to the enacting of the law that made a EIS mandatory is not covered.

Nor, it would seem the building of roads, sub divisions or anything requiring a large amount of land to be cleared.

Hence returns me to the original point, these inmates are in no more or no less risk than the residents of the area, and the surrounding areas where the spores are being blown to.




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