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Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge can e... - 5/7/2013 10:03:22 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		1) Woman meets man.

2) woman marries man

3) Man rapes woman's daughter for 16 years before daughter tells mother.

4) Woman files charges against man, divorces man, and is ordered to pay spousal support to man who raped her daughter.

5) Man goes to prison. Spousal support stops while he is serving time.

6) Man gets out of prison and wants spousal support resumed, did I mention he raped woman's daughter for 16 years?

quote:

Woman Forced to Pay Spousal Support to Ex Who Raped Her Daughter

CORONA, CALIF. - A woman says she was forced to pay spousal support to her ex-husband who was convicted of raping her daughter.

Carol Abar told CBS2 Los Angeles she paid $22,000 in spousal support to her ex, before he was jailed.

But Abar's ex is now out of prison and wants the spousal support to resume -and the law may be on his side.


source

To continue,

Man pleads guilty to ONE rape charge, repeat one, and gets a two year sentence, this is out of five rape charges.

Judge said it was her word against his and there was no proof that the man ever raped her daughter.

As I understand it, the only thing that would exclude him from being able to get spousal support is if he abused his wife. Child abuse or molestation is not taken into consideration.

<snip> Abar's lawyer Sherry Collins said he only pleaded guilty to escape a harsher jail sentence and said he deserved the money.<snip>

This one statement raises questions, in my opinion.

1) If his attorney thought he was innocent, why advise him to plead guilt to avoid a harsher sentence?
2) If he was innocent, why not take it to the courtroom, let a jury decide, if as the judge in the divorce hearing said there was no proof?

Now if there were DNA evidence, there would be no doubt, IMO, or if there were documented evidence in the form of physical injury to the victim, that would at least give credence to her story.

Do not misunderstand me, I am giving her the benefit of the doubt on the simple grounds that if he had not raped her over the years as she claimed, then she is trying one hell of a move to screw him over for some offense he did do.

Sorry but to create a lie to support the allegations would be too hard to maintain and keep straight.

_____________________________

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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/7/2013 10:21:24 PM   
TricklessMagic


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/14/2009
Status: offline 		This does turn my stomach but I think California is a no fault state for divorce. What I'd be curious of is whether or not his convicted felon status affects the amount of alimony when calculating alimony.

For the devil's advocate side of things. Rape charges are hard to beat in front of a jury even without evidence, so long as there is a witness, because people tend to believe victims over perpetrators. Realize most folks who end up on juries believe that the accused is already guilty, and that their average education level is that of 8th grade. So if your guy can do two years in prison instead of twenty to life depending on the number of rape charges, you tell your client to take the deal and you email them over and over again to create a documentation of the advice to take a deal so when the client goes to prison and files a bar complaint, you can show the bar you tried to advise client appropriately.

What I tell all my criminal clients when considering taking a deal; there are three realities to our justice system- truth, bullshit, and drama. Even if you get all three in front of a jury, the jury is only going to care about two. Our justice system is about truth and fairness, it's about processing people through a failing system of bureaucracies, public budgets, and prisons.

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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/7/2013 10:32:56 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		To be honest, and this goes for every justice system on the planet, the trial by fire from the middle ages, you know where the person was tied to a stake and and a fire was set around him, and if he burned he was guilty, and if he did not burn he was innocent, would be just about as effective.

The same would be true about tieing a person up and throwing them into a deep pole, if they sank and drowned they were pure of heart and the water received them, if they floated they were guilty, because the water rejected them.

Now granted, there are drawbacks to both systems, one results in everyone being guilty, and one results in everyone being innocent... not to mention in both cases the person on trial has the bad tendency to die.

Unfortunately, God does not get actively involved in criminal proceedings, I mean lets face it, if a booming disembodied voice from the heavens accompanied by legions of angels were to declare a person guilty or innocent, who could argue?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 4:39:29 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Unfortunately, God does not get actively involved in criminal proceedings, I mean lets face it, if a booming disembodied voice from the heavens accompanied by legions of angels were to declare a person guilty or innocent, who could argue?


GotSteel.


LMAO!!!




_____________________________

What I support:

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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 4:50:24 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		My thoughts/questions:
Was the daughter not willing to testify?
It seems the mother should have filed the charges before seeking the divorce.
I'm surprised a convicted child molester/rapist survived 2 yrs in prison.


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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 4:51:19 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
1) Woman meets man.
2) woman marries man
3) Man rapes woman's daughter for 16 years before daughter tells mother.
4) Woman files charges against man, divorces man, and is ordered to pay spousal support to man who raped her daughter.
5) Man goes to prison. Spousal support stops while he is serving time.
6) Man gets out of prison and wants spousal support resumed, did I mention he raped woman's daughter for 16 years?
quote:

Woman Forced to Pay Spousal Support to Ex Who Raped Her Daughter
CORONA, CALIF. - A woman says she was forced to pay spousal support to her ex-husband who was convicted of raping her daughter.
Carol Abar told CBS2 Los Angeles she paid $22,000 in spousal support to her ex, before he was jailed.
But Abar's ex is now out of prison and wants the spousal support to resume -and the law may be on his side.

source
To continue,
Man pleads guilty to ONE rape charge, repeat one, and gets a two year sentence, this is out of five rape charges.
Judge said it was her word against his and there was no proof that the man ever raped her daughter.
As I understand it, the only thing that would exclude him from being able to get spousal support is if he abused his wife. Child abuse or molestation is not taken into consideration.
<snip> Abar's lawyer Sherry Collins said he only pleaded guilty to escape a harsher jail sentence and said he deserved the money.<snip>
This one statement raises questions, in my opinion.
1) If his attorney thought he was innocent, why advise him to plead guilt to avoid a harsher sentence?
2) If he was innocent, why not take it to the courtroom, let a jury decide, if as the judge in the divorce hearing said there was no proof?
Now if there were DNA evidence, there would be no doubt, IMO, or if there were documented evidence in the form of physical injury to the victim, that would at least give credence to her story.
Do not misunderstand me, I am giving her the benefit of the doubt on the simple grounds that if he had not raped her over the years as she claimed, then she is trying one hell of a move to screw him over for some offense he did do.
Sorry but to create a lie to support the allegations would be too hard to maintain and keep straight.


If there is no spousal support order, how is this guy supposed to live, in the near term. Ohio is a no-fault divorce State and the typical spousal support decree is generally only given for 1/3 the length of the marriage.

Consider the current economic climate. Are jobs plentiful? Not exactly. Would a felony charge make it more difficult to get hired? Um, yes, absolutely. Would a crime such as raping a minor exacerbate the difficulty? I'm willing to bet it would.

The judge said there was no proof, just his word against hers.

What recourse does this guy have? How is he supposed to support himself?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 4:52:52 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Obviously, not in exactly the same way but I think it's the courts, catching up with our changing times.

When most divorce/alimony laws were written in this country, women didn't have the employment opportunities that they do, now. A divorce meant that a woman was destitute without her ex husband's support.

But now, we have womens' lib, men being the stay-at-home ones more frequently than thy were back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

Unfortunately, with the advent of "no fault" divorces came some interesting phenomena.

I remember back in the 80s where there was a portion of women that saw being trophy wives and having a quick kid or two and then, divorcing was almost regarded as a career path.

So, the "no fault" divorce and the prior establishment of spousal support enabled some women to hang men by their nuts for years.

Yes, if this guy raped his wife's daughter, he's a piece of shit. Then, so is a woman that sees a five year marriage and bringing a couple of (almost) unwanted children into the world just to ride a gravy train.

Spousal support and child support laws need to be re-examined in a big way in this country but, let me play devil's advocate for a moment:

If a man and woman got married and the woman robbed a few banks and was arrested. The man files for divorce and gets ordered to pay spousal support. Would we be bitching about the woman, re-applying when she gets done with her jail time for robbing banks?

Some crimes are worse than others? You're right. Death penalty for willful murder, rape, or defrauding a worker his rightful wages works for me.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/8/2013 4:54:38 AM >

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 4:57:02 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

1) If his attorney thought he was innocent, why advise him to plead guilt to avoid a harsher sentence?
Maybe it is my English, but for me this question answers itself...

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If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
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Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 5:00:38 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline 		Dear DaddySatyr.
I was reading your image. Maybe it does not really say what you want it to say: If I do not give a huge amount of fuck, that means that I possibly give a big amount of fuck. Just not huge enough. You are basically saying "it is so important for me, that you cannot imagine anything, which would be even more important for me". Is this what you want to say?

_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 5:01:58 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Obviously, not in exactly the same way but I think it's the courts, catching up with our changing times.
When most divorce/alimony laws were written in this country, women didn't have the employment opportunities that they do, now. A divorce meant that a woman was destitute without her ex husband's support.
But now, we have womens' lib, men being the stay-at-home ones more frequently than thy were back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
Unfortunately, with the advent of "no fault" divorces came some interesting phenomena.
I remember back in the 80s where there was a portion of women that saw being trophy wives and having a quick kid or two and then, divorcing was almost regarded as a career path.
So, the "no fault" divorce and the prior establishment of spousal support enabled some women to hang men by their nuts for years.
Yes, if this guy raped his wife's daughter, he's a piece of shit. Then, so is a woman that sees a five year marriage and bringing a couple of (almost) unwanted children into the world just to ride a gravy train.
Spousal support and child support laws need to be re-examined in a big way in this country but, let me play devil's advocate for a moment:
If a man and woman got married and the woman robbed a few banks and was arrested. The man files for divorce and gets ordered to pay spousal support. Would we be bitching about the woman, re-applying when she gets done with her jail time for robbing banks?


Did the guy rape the girl? The judge couldn't pin it down one way or the other. Had one spouse been a bank robber for 16 years, there may have been some complicity on the part of the other spouse (willfully aggressive ignorance) and mutual benefit from those robberies. So, not exactly the same thing, but I do see the point. I truly think this all comes down to there not being any damning evidence outside of the girl's word. And, if she isn't lying, it's a damn shame he didn't get the typical welcome a child rapist gets in prison.

quote:

Some crimes are worse than others? You're right. Death penalty for willful murder, rape, or defrauding a worker his rightful wages works for me.
Peace and comfort,
Michael


"Death penalty for defrauding a worker his rightful wages?"

W.T.F.?!?

(edited to change the coloring of my response)

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 5/8/2013 5:02:55 AM >

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 5:05:39 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Death penalty for willful murder, rape, or defrauding a worker his rightful wages works for me.
"Death penalty for defrauding a worker his rightful wages?"
W.T.F.?!?
(edited to change the coloring of my response)
Good to know, next time I'll shot the guys directly instead of paying them anything at all. If is it morally equivalent...

_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 5:28:48 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline 		One thing that struck me about this is that in the article you linked (along with a few others I found), not one of them actually gave the name of the judge who made this decision.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 5:38:53 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

"Death penalty for defrauding a worker his rightful wages?"

W.T.F.?!?

(edited to change the coloring of my response)


Try searching "Sins that scream for the vengeance of heaven"

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 5:40:20 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Dear DaddySatyr.
I was reading your image. Maybe it does not really say what you want it to say: If I do not give a huge amount of fuck, that means that I possibly give a big amount of fuck. Just not huge enough. You are basically saying "it is so important for me, that you cannot imagine anything, which would be even more important for me". Is this what you want to say?


No. What it means is: while "you're" busy, trying to discern how much I care about anything, I'll be busy, living my life"

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 6:09:11 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

The judge said there was no proof, just his word against hers.



Then, in the eyes of the law, he's not a rapist.


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

1) If his attorney thought he was innocent, why advise him to plead guilt to avoid a harsher sentence?
2) If he was innocent, why not take it to the courtroom, let a jury decide, if as the judge in the divorce hearing said there was no proof?



It's a gamble. He was taking a sure two year sentence to avoid a possibility of a longer one. Plus a trial that nobody would want. Trials do not establish absolute guilt or innocence - they do their best and sometimes things happen.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 6:14:58 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
"Death penalty for defrauding a worker his rightful wages?"
W.T.F.?!?
(edited to change the coloring of my response)

Try searching "Sins that scream for the vengeance of heaven"


Now I'm confused as to why the Left doesn't celebrate Catholicism. lol

Damn.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 6:19:48 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster
Dear DaddySatyr.
I was reading your image. Maybe it does not really say what you want it to say: If I do not give a huge amount of fuck, that means that I possibly give a big amount of fuck. Just not huge enough. You are basically saying "it is so important for me, that you cannot imagine anything, which would be even more important for me". Is this what you want to say?

No. What it means is: while "you're" busy, trying to discern how much I care about anything, I'll be busy, living my life"
Probably. But this is not what is says. Best regards.

_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 6:20:20 AM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge can even consider this?


The judge may be just as repulsed about this as you are but unlike you he must follow the law.

quote:

1) If his attorney thought he was innocent, why advise him to plead guilt to avoid a harsher sentence?


Taking a plea deal doesn't always mean guilt just as an out of court settlement doesn't always mean guilt. Sometimes it is the best choice to mitigate possible damages. The West Memphis Three took a plea deal and they were clearly innocent.

quote:

2) If he was innocent, why not take it to the courtroom, let a jury decide, if as the judge in the divorce hearing said there was no proof?


A jury trial is a huge roll of the dice, especially in his case.



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RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 6:40:13 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
"Death penalty for defrauding a worker his rightful wages?"
W.T.F.?!?
(edited to change the coloring of my response)

Try searching "Sins that scream for the vengeance of heaven"


Now I'm confused as to why the Left doesn't celebrate Catholicism. lol

Damn.



Actually, contrary to popularist lies, a fairly significant portion (36%) of Vatican followers claim to be democrats. It's a mystery to me, as well but the church of Rome has been a shit mess for decades.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/8/2013 6:42:42 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Would someone please explain how the FUCK a judge c... - 5/8/2013 6:44:10 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Probably. But this is not what is says. Best regards.



My message means different things to different people? Mission accomplished!



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 20
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