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Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 12:54:23 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		Distinguished physicist and author Stephen Hawking has refused an invitation to attend the President's Conference in Israel on the advice of Palestinian colleagues, who had urged him to join the worldwide academic boycott of Israeli institutions.

Hawking wrote: "I accepted the invitation to the Presidential Conference with the intention that this would not only allow me to express my opinion on the prospects for a peace settlement but also because it would allow me to lecture on the West Bank. However, I have received a number of emails from Palestinian academics. They are unanimous that I should respect the boycott. In view of this, I must withdraw from the conference. Had I attended, I would have stated my opinion that the policy of the present Israeli government is likely to lead to disaster."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/may/08/hawking-israel-boycott-furore?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Supporters of the boycott hailed Hawking's decision to follow the likes of Roger Waters and Eno in boycotting Israel because of its treatment of Palestinians, claiming it marks a turning point with the boycott now becoming mainstream. This is the first time a person of Hawking's international standing has joined the boycott.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/09/stephen-hawking-palestinian-boycott-israel-history

While an online poll at 'The Guardian's website approved Hawking's protest by 64% - 36%, Hawking's move drew predictable criticism from Israeli conference organisers.

In breaking news, Israeli authorities announced that another 300 housing units to expand a West Bank colony were approved. ABC radio here reported that Palestinians reacted by declaring that the Israeli move was a deliberate attempt to scuttle US Sec of State Kerry's attempts to revive the peace talks. http://www.france24.com/en/20130509-israel-approves-settler-homes-west-bank

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/10/2013 12:57:08 AM >

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 2:10:46 AM   
Aswad


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Status: offline 		We can only hope this will lead others that respect Hawking's work and/or person to support the boycott further, as well.

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 4:33:56 AM   
Powergamz1


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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 6:13:40 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Distinguished physicist and author Stephen Hawking has refused an invitation to attend the President's Conference in Israel on the advice of Palestinian colleagues, who had urged him to join the worldwide academic boycott of Israeli institutions.



There were some interesting perspectives raised in one of the companion articles linked.

quote:

Hawking's decision met with abusive responses on Facebook, with many commentators focusing on his physical condition, and some accusing him of antisemitism.


I remember this was rather common when I was younger, the idea of equating criticism of Israel with antisemitism. I never saw the sense in doing that, although it seemed to work well with a lot of U.S. politicians who didn't want to be branded in that way. The Religious Right also has very strong feelings about Israel, considering that it's "God's will" that Israel exist, and anyone who is against Israel is against God's will. That kind of talk keeps the faithful in line, apparently.

quote:

However, many artists, writers and academics have defied and even denounced the boycott, calling it ineffective and selective. Ian McEwan, who was awarded the Jerusalem Prize in 2011, responded to critics by saying: "If I only went to countries that I approve of, I probably would never get out of bed … It's not great if everyone stops talking."


On the other hand, this seems like a valid point as well. Is Israel being singled out unfairly? Aren't there a lot of other countries in the world which have persecuted their ethnic underclass? Should China, for example, be boycotted over their treatment of Tibet?

However, I would disagree with McEwan's point that a boycott would get everyone to stop talking. A boycott is not the same thing as a declaration of war. I would think of it as a way of getting the other side's attention, so that they'll start talking, not stop. The Civil Rights boycotts in the South in the 1950s and 60s might have actually helped to open the lines of communication and get the country talking about serious issues that needed to be talked about. (It could have been much worse.)

quote:

Noam Chomsky, a prominent supporter of the Palestinian cause, has said that he supports the "boycott and divestment of firms that are carrying out operations in the occupied territories" but that a general boycott of Israel is "a gift to Israeli hardliners and their American supporters".


I suppose this might make some American supporters feel as if Israel is being martyred. There are some Americans who present it as "Everyone is picking on poor little Israel. We must defend the little guy." Israel is the 98-pound weakling, and America is Charles Atlas coming to their rescue.

However, I did find a bit of irony in this part of the article:

quote:

Israel Maimon, chairman of the presidential conference said: "This decision is outrageous and wrong.

"The use of an academic boycott against Israel is outrageous and improper, particularly for those to whom the spirit of liberty is the basis of the human and academic mission. Israel is a democracy in which everyone can express their opinion, whatever it may be. A boycott decision is incompatible with open democratic discourse."

In 2011, the Israeli parliament passed a law making a boycott call by an individual or organisation a civil offence which can result in compensation liable to be paid regardless of actual damage caused. It defined a boycott as "deliberately avoiding economic, cultural or academic ties with another person or another factor only because of his ties with the State of Israel, one of its institutions or an area under its control, in such a way that may cause economic, cultural or academic damage".


It would seem to me that passing a law against a boycott would also be incompatible with open democratic discourse. I think a boycott is in the spirit of free speech and democratic discourse. I don't think there's anything wrong with the principle of boycotting, as it can be successful and possibly forestall/prevent any further escalation of hostilities.

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 7:26:36 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Is Israel being singled out unfairly? Aren't there a lot of other countries in the world which have persecuted their ethnic underclass? Should China, for example, be boycotted over their treatment of Tibet?

When China is having its hilariously repressive government propped up by payments from the 'States, that might be a fair comparison. As things stand though, your country is funding the Israeli mass murder campaign in Palestine, which makes the situation in Israel and the occupied territories a lot more pressing than the other.

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 7:33:52 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

Noam Chomsky, a prominent supporter of the Palestinian cause, has said that he supports the "boycott and divestment of firms that are carrying out operations in the occupied territories" but that a general boycott of Israel is "a gift to Israeli hardliners and their American supporters".




Anything Chomsky supports, I'm against; just on principle. He's almost as anti-American as the anti-Christ (Hillary).



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< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/10/2013 7:34:40 AM >

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 7:45:24 AM   
mnottertail


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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 8:08:45 AM   
Edwynn


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As if radical destruction of regulation resulting in devastation for the middle class could be construed as 'conservative' in any but a completely warped mind to begin with, or complete subservience to mega-corporate interests could be considered as being 'independent' in any but a completely warped mind, ...

But, you know, other than that ...


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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 9:21:15 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Is Israel being singled out unfairly? Aren't there a lot of other countries in the world which have persecuted their ethnic underclass? Should China, for example, be boycotted over their treatment of Tibet?

When China is having its hilariously repressive government propped up by payments from the 'States, that might be a fair comparison. As things stand though, your country is funding the Israeli mass murder campaign in Palestine, which makes the situation in Israel and the occupied territories a lot more pressing than the other.

We do prop up China. With far more money than goes to Israel. Wal Mart alone sends more money to China in one year than the entire US sends to Israel in a decade.

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 9:26:11 AM   
Edwynn


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Status: offline 		Good point.

But the 4 $billion to Israel comes out of our paycheck, off the top, whereas our funds to China are via the middleman Walmart, a somewhat discretionary endeavor.

No argument from me, our purchases of whatever goods or services are gradually eroding in concern to 'discretion,' as real wages have declined consistently since we gave those tax breaks to the wealthiest. Those 'job creators,' you know.

We rail against Walmart, even as ever more of the middle class is driven to that expedient by the folly of deregulation.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 5/10/2013 9:41:02 AM >

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 9:39:43 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
In breaking news, Israeli authorities announced that another 300 housing units to expand a West Bank colony were approved. ABC radio here reported that Palestinians reacted by declaring that the Israeli move was a deliberate attempt to scuttle US Sec of State Kerry's attempts to revive the peace talks. http://www.france24.com/en/20130509-israel-approves-settler-homes-west-bank


Oh, FFS! This is the shit I can't stand.


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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 10:24:06 AM   
FunCouple5280


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Where are all the lefties belly-aching on Obama? You want peace, all Obama has to do is threaten to cut funding and military support unless they stop the settlements and let them have a damn state... In 30days, I bet you have it. They know it would be suicide to cross the US in that manner. The whole of the middle east would strap on the big cock and get ready to pound their ass.

All the support the left throws behind him on every other damn policy, this should be a top gripe from his base. Instead I hear mild grumblings and crickets. Yet, with Bush, super vocal....

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 10:56:09 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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Status: offline 		bah a whole lotta nuthin bout nuthin tho i hope hawking has tha moral integrity to return his israeli made voice box http://www.aish.com/jw/me/Stephen-Hawking-and-the-Israel-Boycott.html

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 10:59:15 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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Status: offline 		Full support, of course. The Israeli politics are the cancer of geopolitcs.

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 11:47:30 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Is Israel being singled out unfairly? Aren't there a lot of other countries in the world which have persecuted their ethnic underclass? Should China, for example, be boycotted over their treatment of Tibet?

When China is having its hilariously repressive government propped up by payments from the 'States, that might be a fair comparison. As things stand though, your country is funding the Israeli mass murder campaign in Palestine, which makes the situation in Israel and the occupied territories a lot more pressing than the other.


What about people who buy goods made in China? A lot of Americans (and others around the world) fall into that category, so in essence, China is getting funding from both our countries to carry out their activities.

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 10:44:56 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

I suppose this might make some American supporters feel as if Israel is being martyred. There are some Americans who present it as "Everyone is picking on poor little Israel. We must defend the little guy." Israel is the 98-pound weakling, and America is Charles Atlas coming to their rescue.

Israel is far from being a 98lb weakling, though it likes to encourage the false perception that it's an underdog and victim, not the regional bully. Israel possesses one of the world's most formidable militaries, armed to the teeth with the latest technology and with nuclear weapons back it up. Victims don 't do military occupations.

From the BDS website:
"The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194."
http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro

These 3 goals are independent of any moves to establish the long overdue Palestinian State. The boycott was initiated by a group of 205 organisations from Palestinian civil society - not a political organisation such as the PLO - after Israel ignored the 2004 ruling form the International Court that the apartheid wall it was constructing was "illegal" and the world's failure to prevent Israeli crimes against Palestinians.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/10/2013 10:53:01 PM >

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/10/2013 10:52:12 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

I suppose this might make some American supporters feel as if Israel is being martyred. There are some Americans who present it as "Everyone is picking on poor little Israel. We must defend the little guy." Israel is the 98-pound weakling, and America is Charles Atlas coming to their rescue.

Israel is far from being a 98lb weakling, though it likes to encourage the false perception that it's an underdog and victim, not the regional bully. Israel possesses one of the world's most formidable militaries, armed to the teeth with the latest technology and with a nuclear weapon back up. Vicitims don 't do military occupations.

How many times have the arab states attacked Israel? 3. Has Israel ever attempted to conquer any of her neighbors? No.

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/11/2013 4:53:40 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

I suppose this might make some American supporters feel as if Israel is being martyred. There are some Americans who present it as "Everyone is picking on poor little Israel. We must defend the little guy." Israel is the 98-pound weakling, and America is Charles Atlas coming to their rescue.


Israel is far from being a 98lb weakling, though it likes to encourage the false perception that it's an underdog and victim, not the regional bully. Israel possesses one of the world's most formidable militaries, armed to the teeth with the latest technology and with nuclear weapons back it up. Victims don 't do military occupations.


I agree that they're not a weak power today, but back in 1948, they might have been considered that.

quote:


From the BDS website:
"The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;


This might be part of the problem. Israel is not going to give up those lands any more than the U.S. would give up Texas or California (or the U.K. giving up Northern Ireland or Scotland, or Poland giving up their part of East Prussia/Germany, or Russia giving up the Kuril Islands, or France giving up Alsace-Lorraine, or Canada giving up Quebec, etc.).

The way Israel sees it (and I can kind of understand their point), the Arabs started a war with them in 1967, gambled, and lost territory as a result. It's seen as no different than Germany losing territory after they started wars with their neighbors in the World Wars.

They would also claim that the Arab nations had every opportunity to bring in their Arab Palestinian brethren and integrate them into the populations of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt, so that they would have their own homeland. The Arabs have so much land, from Morocco, all of North Africa, along with Syria-Iraq, and the entire Arabian Peninsula. The Arabs have plenty of space in their own countries to give the Palestinians a homeland, but they turned their backs on their own people. The Arabs have all that territory (and all that oil), yet it's still not enough for them? Arabs are richer than shit; countries like Qatar and the UAE are swimming in cash - and then they come over here, buy everything up and act like they own America. I don't see them struggling at all.

All they'd have to do is snap their fingers, and every single Palestinian man, woman, and child could be given their own mansion to live in. The fact that Arabs don't help their own is very telling, but it's hardly something I could blame on Israel.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Israel is right; I'm not really taking their side. But I'm not taking the Arabs' side either, and they have some things to answer for, too. I don't really see the Arabs as innocent victims in all this. Perhaps other Arab states are using the Palestinians as pawns, setting them up as victims of Israel to manipulate world opinion - when they could very easily give the Palestinians land and luxury with the stroke of a pen. It's hard to sympathize with them when looking at the big picture.



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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/11/2013 6:05:28 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I am all for this boycott just so long as he also boycotts Palestinian academic endeavors... In fact I would like to see a total boycott of support, other than humanitarian, for both sides in this conflict and perhaps that would force real negotiations.

Butch

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RE: Stephen Hawking joins Israel boycott - 5/11/2013 10:12:52 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		As Edwynn has pointed out, that's free enterprise (and so sacred in America), rather than your government spending your tax dollars to prop up a psychopathic bunch of right wing lunatics in a foreign country.

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