RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident

RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/2/2013 5:18:46 PM)
Well, you and I will get along just great! I totally agree with you. There are some here who are constantly chanting about how every kink is ok, as long as both parties consent. I call bullshit every time. The problem with cases like this is that it IS about BDSM in a sense. Now before everyone goes ballistic, let me explain. Very often the perpetrators of these things have BDSM type fantasies. However, they also have a little something wrong in the head, so they don't understand the consent part. For them, it most definitely often starts with them reading or seeing BDSM photos and literature. Then something snaps, and that's where things go wrong. So in a way, it is more like the whole, "your kink isn't my kink...." that everyone always goes on about. The big difference is that it is because it is not done correctly (via kidnapping/abuse and often death), it is something that those who participate using the SSC and RACK principles, it is something they don't understand when they fail to add the psychological issues to it. Now I'm not saying that it is "ok" in any way, shape or form. What I'm saying is that trying to say that BDSM has nothing to do with it would simply not be accurate. The ACTS are BDSM based, they are just one sided, and of course, illegal. Let the bitching about what I said commence. But please try to remember the psychological component here, and think about all the kinks that are not simply dangerous, but unhealthy, like the death kinks, the forced anorexia kinks, etc. They are messed up as well, but many of you have no problem because these people "consent," even though the reality is that they are lacking the mental capacity to do so because they are seeking very unhealthy things.

JeffBC -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/2/2013 6:39:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana It is? Man, I was thinking that too. I sometimes wonder at all the sparkles and sunshine that "BDSM is about". As I've said many times if I wanted to be safe, sane, or consensual then I wouldn't be doing what I am with Carol and I'm the freakin disney dom here.

Powergamz1 -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/2/2013 7:36:00 PM)
Nobody's talking about trite Second Life slogans like SSC, this is about the consequences of kidnapping and hurting people... and whether you agree or not, the courts take a very dim view of non-consensual, and unsafe actions. quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Only if you have an aversion to close spaces, like prison cells. quote: ORIGINAL: Kana quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessLily6 This was not BDSM. BDSM is about being safe and consensual It is? I dunno-not everyone follows SSC ya know...

Powergamz1 -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/2/2013 7:40:58 PM)
It's about BDSM in the same way that Ted Bundy was about porn. NPD and psychopaths will grab fragments of the external reality and use them to deflect all responsibility, usually after defense mechanisms like blaming the victim and blaming the authorities have reached a dead end. quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady Well, you and I will get along just great! I totally agree with you. There are some here who are constantly chanting about how every kink is ok, as long as both parties consent. I call bullshit every time. The problem with cases like this is that it IS about BDSM in a sense. Now before everyone goes ballistic, let me explain. Very often the perpetrators of these things have BDSM type fantasies. However, they also have a little something wrong in the head, so they don't understand the consent part. For them, it most definitely often starts with them reading or seeing BDSM photos and literature. Then something snaps, and that's where things go wrong. So in a way, it is more like the whole, "your kink isn't my kink...." that everyone always goes on about. The big difference is that it is because it is not done correctly (via kidnapping/abuse and often death), it is something that those who participate using the SSC and RACK principles, it is something they don't understand when they fail to add the psychological issues to it. Now I'm not saying that it is "ok" in any way, shape or form. What I'm saying is that trying to say that BDSM has nothing to do with it would simply not be accurate. The ACTS are BDSM based, they are just one sided, and of course, illegal. Let the bitching about what I said commence. But please try to remember the psychological component here, and think about all the kinks that are not simply dangerous, but unhealthy, like the death kinks, the forced anorexia kinks, etc. They are messed up as well, but many of you have no problem because these people "consent," even though the reality is that they are lacking the mental capacity to do so because they are seeking very unhealthy things.

LafayetteLady -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/2/2013 10:34:34 PM)
But it doesn't change that in their mind, there is a BDSM element to it.

commander63 -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/3/2013 3:13:41 AM)
this creep in ohio just put the case of getting bdsm out of the back room back about 50 years eventually bdsm will be just as accepted by the main society just like husband and wife or gay relationship is but this act by the ass hole just put it back 50 yeasrs or so

Powergamz1 -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/3/2013 9:50:54 AM)
BDSM hasn't been in the back room for about the last 50 years. With the advent of TV and movies, it became the slightly tittilating joke it is to most of society today. Don't worry, the sky isn't falling, and BDSM'ers aren't 'vewwwy dangewus people'. quote: ORIGINAL: commander63 this creep in ohio just put the case of getting bdsm out of the back room back about 50 years eventually bdsm will be just as accepted by the main society just like husband and wife or gay relationship is but this act by the ass hole just put it back 50 yeasrs or so

Kana -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/3/2013 2:40:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Nobody's talking about trite Second Life slogans like SSC, this is about the consequences of kidnapping and hurting people... and whether you agree or not, the courts take a very dim view of non-consensual, and unsafe actions. quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Only if you have an aversion to close spaces, like prison cells. quote: ORIGINAL: Kana quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessLily6 This was not BDSM. BDSM is about being safe and consensual It is? I dunno-not everyone follows SSC ya know... Hmmmmm I made a comment about a specific assertion made. I didn't open up into the wider perspective on this case. In this instance, the poster made a flat statement that BDSM is sane and consensual. To which I asked, is it? Because for lots of people, it's not. They don't play SSC. That's a choice they make/made/continue to make, walking in with open minds and knowing full well what's involved in their decision. That's what I was commenting on, because the assertion, it's simply false. That said, I gotta say, there's a whole lotta folk who have fantasies close to this scenario. I mean, how common are kidnap fantasies, or people who think about being abducted and forced to serve in some foreign harem, all sorts of similar stuff? The tall dark handsome, somewhat cruel stranger who accost a lady, sweeps her off her feet, and takes her is practically a blueprint for manufacturing wet pussies. The same hold true from the other side of the kneel. Not to mention the keeping them shackled in chains, walking them on leashes in the backyard at night, caging the victims, yeah-I'm sure those sorts of events never figure into a BDSM scene or wet dream. I dunno if this is BDSM or not, but it certainly has BDSM elements and strong overtones. Now, there's a line between play/fantasy and reality which this cat obviously had no clue about, or completely lost sight of somewhere along the way, but to think that the common man on the street (How's it playing in Peoria-remember those days?) isn't gonna see S/M overtones is ridiculous. of course it has strong overtones of that.

Powergamz1 -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/3/2013 2:51:56 PM)
GL6 never said that BDSM is sane and consensual. They said it was safe and consensual. Just because words start with the same letters doesn't make them interchangeable. For the second time, this case has nothing to do with SSC, this has to do with the legal threshold for prosecution when your activities cross the line into grievous bodily harm, or non-consensual. If anyone is bragging that the never play 'safe', or they can't be bothered with consent, they stand a good chance of ending up like Castro... and it won't be because they are 'doing BDSM their way'. quote: ORIGINAL: Kana quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Nobody's talking about trite Second Life slogans like SSC, this is about the consequences of kidnapping and hurting people... and whether you agree or not, the courts take a very dim view of non-consensual, and unsafe actions. quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Only if you have an aversion to close spaces, like prison cells. quote: ORIGINAL: Kana quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessLily6 This was not BDSM. BDSM is about being safe and consensual It is? I dunno-not everyone follows SSC ya know... Hmmmmm I made a comment about a specific assertion made. I didn't open up into the wider perspective on this case. In this instance, the poster made a flat statement that BDSM is sane and consensual. To which I asked, is it? Because for lots of people, it's not. They don't play SSC. That's a choice they make/made/continue to make, walking in with open minds and knowing full well what's involved in their decision. That's what I was commenting on, because the assertion, it's simply false. That said, I gotta say, there's a whole lotta folk who have fantasies close to this scenario. I mean, how common are kidnap fantasies, or people who think about being abducted and forced to serve in some foreign harem, all sorts of similar stuff? The tall dark handsome, somewhat cruel stranger who accost a lady, sweeps her off her feet, and takes her is practically a blueprint for manufacturing wet pussies. The same hold true from the other side of the kneel. Not to mention the keeping them shackled in chains, walking them on leashes in the backyard at night, caging the victims, yeah-I'm sure those sorts of events never figure into a BDSM scene or wet dream. I dunno if this is BDSM or not, but it certainly has BDSM elements and strong overtones. Now, there's a line between play/fantasy and reality which this cat obviously had no clue about, or completely lost sight of somewhere along the way, but to think that the common man on the street (How's it playing in Peoria-remember those days?) isn't gonna see S/M overtones is ridiculous. of course it has strong overtones of that.

Kana -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/3/2013 2:58:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 GL6 never said that BDSM is sane and consensual. They said it was safe and consensual. Errr, actually she did (Sorry, misread safe as sane-I'll own that): quote: This was not BDSM. BDSM is about being safe and consensual

Aswad -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/16/2013 10:18:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist Did you think Hitler was living a BDSM fantasy? In all fairness, while Hitler didn't, it seems a certain lady at Büchenwald was living her kinky fantasies. The rest of us try to be more civil in our desires, rather than nabbing random strangers. Conflating it with BDSM seems to miss some crucial points, though, agreed. IWYW, — Aswad.

threadbare -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (6/25/2013 10:40:11 AM)
My reaction to this story when it broke months back was anger. Furious at what that heap took from those girls. It wasn't hot. Wasn't bdsm (not to me). Criminal anti social behavior that I'll delight in seeing him pay. I hope those girls flourish. But I think the op gets close to pointing out an answer- was it bdsm <i>to him</i> alone? It doesn't happen in a vacuum. Whether ssc or Risk Aware there is an established trust and semblance of social contract between the two or three or however many are in on the joke. That's freeing. And maybe that's the nature of bdsm? Trust in however you define the relationship.

tazzygirl -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (7/26/2013 5:45:38 PM)
Just an update.... CLEVELAND • The Cleveland man accused of holding three women captive in his home for about a decade agreed to plead guilty Friday in a deal to avoid the death penalty. In exchange, Ariel Castro would be sentenced to life without parole plus 1,000 years, prosecutors said. http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/cleveland-kidnap-suspect-pleads-guilty-to-avoid-death-penalty/article_28799153-a95b-5642-accc-9e03b766c4f5.html Thankfully these women can now begin to heal.

heartcream -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (7/26/2013 9:02:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana They don't play SSC. That's a choice they make/made/continue to make, walking in with open minds and knowing full well what's involved in their decision. That's what I was commenting on, because the assertion, it's simply false. Sooo they make a choice not to play SCC so it IS consensual. These chicks did not make that choice, they were abducted. Big feen difference.

Enobaria -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (7/28/2013 2:53:21 AM)
Please pray for all three of those girls, especially the baby.

notxofast -> RE: the Cleveland Abduction (current) Incident (8/2/2013 11:01:38 AM)
Don't confuse kidnap/rape fantasies with what this man did. Those fantasies revolve around letting go of the need to ask 'permission' to enjoy orgasm. The historic truth is that women were never supposed to enjoy sex. Being sexual creatures anyway, we invented kidnap/rape fantasies that allowed us a small element of 'danger' mixed with a big hunk of "well, I was 'forced' to screw my silly little head off so any fornication that happened wasn't my fault." This man took the innocent elements of those fantasies which are about self-permission to enjoy something society tells us we are not supposed to enjoy, and twisted them to satisfy his own warped reality. He is a serial killer that was still toying with his victims. He has already admitted to using blunt force to abort several pregnancies. That the young lady SURVIVED and didn't hemorrhage to death is a miracle. He may have borrowed elements of sexual fantasy to serve his ends, but that's as far as any link between what this man did and BDSM goes, in my mind.

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