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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 5:33:39 PM   
outlier


Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		Here is a link where they sell NRA Official 500 yard targets

Read it. You will find that the black part is 24 inches across.
the whole target is 62 x 72 inches.  Here take a look.

NRA 500 Yard Target 

Here is another site that gives the same dimensions  TARGETS

So dwarf, tell us some more about your super aim and steel pellets
and penny sized targets.

As for the fact that any marine can do it here is a marine that says
you are wrong.  He says the problem is wind at that range.  Read post 19
on the link page and then come back and tell us again how it is "no big deal".
for a novice to hit first time, most of the time, with this weapon at that range.

What Rifle for 500 Yards?










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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 9:59:02 PM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		Remington 700 + 3x9 Bushnell + sandbag + strap around forearm + trash can lid + 500 yards = I hit it most of the time.

Homemade ammo helps.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 10:07:05 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		I'm gonna have to side with the ones calling BS on an air rifle at 500 yards. For a 150 grain .308, the drop would be 64", and that's a lot of holdover for a smokeless-fueled shooting iron. Compressed air doesn't possess the same enthalpy or energy density to compare. You'd have to have that thing elevated like a howitzer just to get close, and steel airgun pellets (even 9mm and 12.7) simply don't possess the mass to retain enough usable energy to make it that far.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 10:08:16 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

Here is a link where they sell NRA Official 500 yard targets

Read it. You will find that the black part is 24 inches across.
the whole target is 62 x 72 inches.  Here take a look.

NRA 500 Yard Target 

Here is another site that gives the same dimensions  TARGETS

So dwarf, tell us some more about your super aim and steel pellets
and penny sized targets.

As for the fact that any marine can do it here is a marine that says
you are wrong.  He says the problem is wind at that range.  Read post 19
on the link page and then come back and tell us again how it is "no big deal".
for a novice to hit first time, most of the time, with this weapon at that range.

What Rifle for 500 Yards?










Who said anything about wind?
I did my shooting in a sheltered field.

And my mate from the army says if you, as a marine, can't hit a penny target at 500 yards at least 80% of the time then you're a piss-poor excuse for a marine!!
His words, not mine.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 10:18:36 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		An M700 (Remington 700) can do that. That thing is a tack driver. I know about one hit that was well over the purported range for that rifle. The shot was taken by a Marine.

An air-rifle can't. Or at least any air-rifle I've ever come across can't.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 10:21:07 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		Well, I'm probably gonna get flamed by all the other vets here, but guys in/were in the military have been known to sling the BS around to impress civvies. Or piss them off. I'm sure there are guys who can do just that, but most recruits (of any branch) are permitted to move on to the next phase if they can manage hitting enough silhouettes at varying ranges up to 300 meters.

Contrary to what a lot of people would like you to believe, we're not all steely-eyed killers with the nads of Carlos Hathcock. Trainees are lucky to skate with a Marksman badge, which I recall is something like 25 or 28 out of 40 pop-up targets. I managed to ace that, but I think I had a bit of luck. My first rifle in Basic was an early A1 that had ridden hard and put away wet too many times, to the point where I could field-strip it merely by holding it in one hand and shaking it vigorously.

It had this disconcerting habit of burst-firing on Semi, which my DI seemed to disregard until I was jumped by a range NCO. He took it, jammed a mag in it, aimed, and on semi, it went full rock and roll. I got a (nearly) brand-new rifle, already zeroed, on the spot, and that's how I got my Expert badge.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 10:52:58 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		M16A1?

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 10:58:07 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		BTW: Thank you for your service.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 10:58:13 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		Yes. Early version with the oblong forward assist and full birdcage.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 11:03:20 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		You're welcome, but all I really did was fill a uniform while training to fight a war that never happened.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 11:24:21 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		The M16A1 was probably the worst rifle ever out into the hands of our servicemen.

You didn't just fill a uniform. You wore the uniform of MY Marines, protecting MY Constitution and defended MY country.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 11:31:48 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Who said anything about wind?
I did my shooting in a sheltered field.

Even in a "sheltered field" there will still be wind.

Your claims are pure, unadulterated bullshit.

quote:

And my mate from the army says if you, as a marine, can't hit a penny target at 500 yards at least 80% of the time then you're a piss-poor excuse for a marine!!

Your friend has an imagination at least as active as yours.


< Message edited by stef -- 5/16/2013 11:32:12 PM >

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/16/2013 11:32:44 PM   
outlier


Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

Here is a link where they sell NRA Official 500 yard targets

Read it. You will find that the black part is 24 inches across.
the whole target is 62 x 72 inches.  Here take a look.

NRA 500 Yard Target 

Here is another site that gives the same dimensions  TARGETS

So dwarf, tell us some more about your super aim and steel pellets
and penny sized targets.

As for the fact that any marine can do it here is a marine that says
you are wrong.  He says the problem is wind at that range.  Read post 19
on the link page and then come back and tell us again how it is "no big deal".
for a novice to hit first time, most of the time, with this weapon at that range.

What Rifle for 500 Yards?










Who said anything about wind?
I did my shooting in a sheltered field.

And my mate from the army says if you, as a marine, can't hit a penny target at 500 yards at least 80% of the time then you're a piss-poor excuse for a marine!!
His words, not mine.



I believe he is your friend because you two are either drinking or
smoking the same stuff.

Look at these photos from a shooting range on a 500 yard day.

500 Yard Day At The Range

Look at what the targets look like when the camera is right over
the shooter's shoulder.  Now look at the size of that target when
the man is repairing it.  But you claimed to consistently be able to
hit small birds at that distance with open sights using an air rifle. 
Sure you can.

And your friend the marine says that 80% of the time marines can
hit pennys at that distance.  Unless they are snipers they would also
be using open sights just like combat. 

I thought that British pennys were larger than US cents. 
Until now I never realized they were "target sized", 2 feet across.




< Message edited by outlier -- 5/16/2013 11:43:23 PM >

_____________________________

Avatar from xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 12:21:13 AM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		Normal visual acuity is commonly referred to as 20/20 vision, the metric equivalent of which is 6/6 vision. At 20 feet or 6 metres, a human eye with nominal performance is able to separate lines that are one arc minute apart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity#Normal_vision

One minute of arc = 1.047" at 100 yards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minute_of_arc

5 x 1.047" = 5.235"

This means the typical human cannot see the orange top of a clay pigeon at 500 yards. A penny is 3/4". And is not orange. At 500 yards, 3/4" is 1/7th of a minute of arc. Not only can no man that ever lived have possibly seen a penny at 500 yards, no rifle ever built could be relied upon to hit it. Even if the rifle is mounted in a machine rest and the penny is placed at the point of impact of the previous round.

Further, there is the problem of the front sight. It is considerably wider than a minute. If your airgun is not equipped with a 500 yard rear sight, you will need to raise the front sight, obscuring the target, in order to make the pellet fly far enough to reach the target.

Further, there is windage. It does not take much wind to push a pellet 3/4" at 500 yards. A half inch per second is more than plenty. A half inch a second is 1/3 mph.

Further, there is the movement of the shooters body, which moves the rifle. A good man can hold still. But he cannot become a statue.

But, of course, I'm no expert, so far be it for me to say... hang on... I've probably gone through about 100,000 rounds in my time. So I probably am an expert.

Remington Nylon 66. Colt Woodsman. Winchester 94. Remington model 8. Marlin 336. Luger. Colt 1911a1. Remington 700 ADL. Remington 700 BDL. Smith & Wesson 586. Ruger Blackhawk. Winchester 190. I am certain I owned a few more that I don't recall just now. I am 50 after all. They say the mind starts to go in the Autumn years...

What was I talking about?

Edit : Traded an 'n' for an 'f'.

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 5/17/2013 12:37:52 AM >

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 12:32:28 AM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		I wasn't a Marine. United States Army here. The M-16 isn't a bad rifle, once they addressed the problems with it. If you keep it clean, it works, and the one I carried after Basic was able to function with a surprising amount of filth in it. It's been in service longer than any other rifle the US has ever fielded, so it has to have some redeeming qualities about it.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 2:20:12 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		Yeah.....
And scientists and mathematicians can prove categorically and conclusively that it is physically impossible for a bumble bee to fly.
Go figure.

I also had a chat with my brother and his friend (who is still in the army) and he tells me that to qualify to get onto the army sniper squad you have to score a minimum of 75% in the entrance test.
Admittedly, that's only 250 yards on targets that are 8" wide with a centre bullseye of 15mm.

Spout all the theory you like. I know what I shoot and I know that there are better marksmen than I'll ever be. At the last competition I entered (about 6 years ago now), I didn't even get to the quarter finals of our local group with a score of 97% - I got beaten by 15 others with scores of 98% and better. At one time I used to at least get a bronze cup but sadly no more.
That said, I'm utterly useless at skeet shooting with a either a 10-bore or 12-bore.


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 3:55:05 AM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		Well then. I stand corrected. I have to suppose everyone does.

Now. I'm off to Seattle on my bike to see a show. I'll bring back pics.

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simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 6:34:02 AM   
Exidor


Posts: 135
Joined: 12/31/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman
My longest shot is 1375 yards (paced with a wheel), with a Remington 700 BDL, .22-250, 26" Douglas Medium Heavy, 75 grains Nosler, forgot the powder/amount


I'd like to see the drop chart for that one... probably makes my .45-70 at 100 yards look like a laser beam.

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RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 7:21:58 AM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		The M16A2 is a great rifle. The M16A1 was crap.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: New Smart Rifle That Rarely Misses - 5/17/2013 7:50:12 AM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Exidor

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman
My longest shot is 1375 yards (paced with a wheel), with a Remington 700 BDL, .22-250, 26" Douglas Medium Heavy, 75 grains Nosler, forgot the powder/amount


I'd like to see the drop chart for that one... probably makes my .45-70 at 100 yards look like a laser beam.


Oh, I had help on that shot, to be honest. My buddy Sean was working the spotting scope and I had quite a bit of holdover, but I also had a monster scope and some really good home-rolls in the tube that day. Here ya go:.22-250 Bullet Drop Chart





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MasterCaneman -- 5/17/2013 7:53:54 AM >

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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Profile   Post #: 40
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