egern
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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
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Men and women have sex drives. And each and every man does NOT have a sex drive that is higher than each and every woman. So using sex drive as the construct doesn't really tell me anything. Yes, we all have sex drives and people like to have sex. What does that have to do with informing us about boundaries, consent, etc. In my mind, nothing at all.
Sex drive was never meant to be the only motivation, it was just one of the questions. It is not power versus sex, in my discussion. I do not believe in any ONE motive or reason.
You are quite right that the sex drive for men and women is the same, something not many have touched on. But of course you can argue that if both have the same sex drive, but only one party is strong enough to overpower the other, that could be why men rape women and rarely the other way around.
Personally I cannot but see that sex would have to come into it in some cases.
Power as a motive is still unclear to me: does it mean that it makes the rapist feels powerful when he rapes?
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If we believe rape is just about sex drive then one way to control this is to cover women up - i.e., remove the visual cues to sex drive for men who are 90% of rapists. This seems ridiculous to me.
Again - and again and again - NO, asking women to cover up is no answer to rape. The rapist is the one responsible, not the women, and there is no reason why women should cover up and NO seduction theory implied here.
There is every reason to educate against the rape culture, that seems to make rape ok to so many people.
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When I think about it in terms of power it tells me the way to educate both men and women is about the power dynamics involved - now we have the issues of boundaries, consent, respect, etc. all show up. And unlike sex drive which is the same construct for both women and men, power, because of certain natural attributes and evolutionary biology is different for men and women. Understanding rape requires understanding the sources of power that each gender has, and how rape violates the power balance. Again, the construct of sex drive does not tell us anything. A woman with a sex drive can still be raped. A woman can be attracted to someone physically but still not want to have sex with them at a particular time and place. Power seems to me a much better construct to use when discussing things like date rape. Again sex drive tells me nothing. Two people out on a date who are attracted to each other. Sex drive kicks in. So what? This doesn't mean a woman has consented to sex. And if a woman says "no" and a man overpowers her, his is doing exactly that. Using his sources of power to obviate hers.
We seem again to mix physically over powering someone, and discussing power balances between genders in society in other terms.
Maybe the word 'power' obscures what you mean rather than clarifying it. What about 'right'? Some men seems to feel that if a session has gone on long enough, or if they had previously perceived a 'yes', then they have a right to continue.
It is important, IMO, to educate children and young men in the concept that no one has a right to sex, regardless of the circumstances. I do not know if you would call that a question of power, I would not.
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This is really not something very complex that is being stated here. In fact, I am starting to think it is because of its very simplicity that some on this thread are willfully denouncing it. Sometimes the simplest explanations are the most powerful.
I don't know what you mean by willfully denouncing anything, people simply explain their thoughts on the matter. But simple statements to complicated matters are not always a very good idea.
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Using power as a construct leads me to all the right conclusions about education, prevention, post-rape counseling, etc.
As for education a lot of people seem to arrive at that conclusion from various starting points, and I think that is a very good form of combating not just the rape culture, but also simple misunderstandings as voiced by young men on some sites - men asking for advice and information.
Counseling - there I do not see it.
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Again sex drive doesn't tell me how to counsel a post-rape victim (something that I have done as a volunteer). Sitting around talking about sex drive is NOT going to make a rape victim feel alright about what happened.
Can anything make it ok?
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Talking about power makes it very clear exactly what happened and what the relative responsibilities were and how well or not well those responsibilities were handled. And this applies whether it is stranger rape or date rape or marital rape.
If you mean trying to teach people that the rape is not their fault, I do not see the difference. It is never their fault, no matter who you define rape or explain it reasons.
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How many of you who are attacking the power construct have dealt in any real capacity with either rapists or rape victims (either as counselors, doctors, lawyers, etc.)? I think some of you could use some real life exposure to people on both sides of the rape equation before jumping so quickly to the idea that power is NOT the construct.
This discussion is not aimed at professionals, but at people in general who are interested in what makes other people rape. This is important for the whole attitude among people.
That said, no counselor or doctor or lawyer can claim to know the reason for rape, let alone one reason for rape. The power theory is an ill explained theory which is mostly aimed at getting the focus from the victim to the rapist, but it has never been either proven or even properly explained.
To get the attention away from the victim as in a lot of blaming and pointing fingers is important, but you do not need to go on with the power theory to do that.
People here are not 'attacking' that theory, they are discussing it, and if I ready them right, they simply say that this theory is not sufficiently helpful to help explain or combat rape.
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Here are your questions:
Is it power? YES
Is it a bad attitude about women? (or other men)? YES and misogyny would be part of the power construct
Is it purely about sex? NO
Is it punishment? YES and punishment would be part of the power construct
Is it bad upbringing? Culture? Religion? POSSIBLY - but partly because people don't always understand rape to be about power; and culture and religion often focus on the wrong thing - on sex drive and trying to reduce that (e.g. by covering women up, by not allowing women to go out, etc.)
Is it because men cannot control themselves? Control is the flip side of power - when we have power we can choose to use it or NOT
Is it because men have a right to sex and therefore to take it where they can? This is POWER
Is it, as some EPs would have it, all nature and natural? NO
If I sum this up, what the theory of power as reason for rape is about is: misogyny, punishment and using control or not.
Can you help me further, and spell this out in a coherent theory? Is it all about hatred?
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The whole point is that she has power that is ignored by the man.
This does not make sense to me. A power cannot be ignored.
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Most of these questions raise issues that are just about power, but simply phrased in another way. The others relate to education - and the only way to educate is to understand what you are educating about.
The whole thing would be easier to understand if it were spelled out in one coherent theory.
Men rape because:...?
It was originally a political theory, meant to shift the focus, not a social or scientific one. I think it has helped shift the focus quite a lot along the way, but now we need some actual facts about rape to work with.
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RE: Is rape about power? - 
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