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Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 6:14:29 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		Benghazi, the IRS's profiling of conservatives (who are not shy about supporting profiling in airports or law enforcement), the AP call records--they're all chump change compared to the true threat to the republic:



The Daily Caller explains:

According to Marine Corps regulation MCO P1020.34F of the Marine Corps Uniform Regulations chapter 3, a male Marine is not allowed to carry an umbrella while in uniform. There is no provision in the Marine Corps uniform regulation guidelines that allows a male Marine to carry an umbrella.

Nevertheless, during a press conference under a light drizzle with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan this morning, President Obama allowed the First Head to be protected from the elements by an umbrella held by a male Marine corporal.

Dear God, what will this lawless administration do next?

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE
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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 6:50:29 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		More detail in WaPo:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-puts-marines-on-umbrella-duty-irking-conservatives/2013/05/17/cad75a5a-bf0f-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_story.html

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 7:19:00 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Hell, DC, the man has no clue how to salute, and somebody expects him to be familiar with the regulations on dress and appearance?






Attachment (1)

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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 7:34:02 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		Not knowing salute protocol myself, I did some Googling and came cross an interesting post at The Libertarian.

S/he writes:

I don't like Presidents saluting. I didn't like it when Reagan did it it and do not recall anyone including Eisenhower doing it before Reagan. I suppose it is harmless but It reminds me of third world dictatorships and worse. It also adds a link to the military that IMO is dangerous for a US president, especially those that never served and might be reluctant to overrule military decisions when necessary. I may have cracked a tooth or two watching Clinton getting the hang of it.

S/he also quotes a differing opinion from a former Marine:

Presidents have long been saluted, but they began returning salutes relatively recently. Ronald Reagan was thought to be the first, in 1981. He had sought advice on the matter from Gen. Robert Barrow, commandant of the Marine Corps. According to John Kline, then Mr. Reagan’s military aide and today a member of Congress from Minnesota, General Barrow told the president that as commander in chief he could salute anybody he wished. And so it began.

Mr. Reagan’s successors continued the practice, and I continued to be conflicted — believing that when it comes to salutes (and one or two other matters), presidents deserved to be cut some slack, but also feeling a little uneasy about the whole thing.

My ambivalence came to an end last week, when I saw a videotape of the president’s midnight trip to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, where he had participated, very early that morning, in the “dignified transfer” of 15 Army soldiers and three Drug Enforcement Administration agents killed that week in Afghanistan. Mr. Obama stood ramrod straight and saluted as six soldiers carried the coffin bearing the body of Sgt. Dale Griffin of Indiana off a C-17 transport aircraft and into a waiting van. His salute, it struck me, was impeccable in every way.

Interesting stuff.


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 7:39:27 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		More on presidential salutes: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/archive/2009/11/should_presidents_salute.shtml



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 7:41:00 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Hell, DC, the man has no clue how to salute


Maybe he was trying for the grace and solemnity of this one?



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 7:52:49 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		First of all, if all it was doing was a drizzle, then Obama had no need for a freaking umbrella. What is he afraid of? Melting?

quote:

“The gesture is of course quite wrong: Such a salute has always required the wearing of a uniform,” author and historian John Lukacs wrote in The New York Times in 2003.
USA/
“But there is more to this than a decline in military manners,” he added. “There is something puerile in the Reagan (and now Bush) salute. It is the joyful gesture of someone who likes playing soldier. It also represents an exaggeration of the president’s military role.
Source
”

It is actually wrong for the president to return a salute.

It was wrong when Republican Saint Ronald did it, when Bush did it, and Eisenhower, a retired 5 star, did not do it.

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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 7:57:26 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Obama had no need for a freaking umbrella

The President's concern was for his distinguished, diplomatic guest:

“I am going to go ahead and ask folks, why don’t we get a couple of Marines — they’re going to look good next to us — just because I’ve got a change of suits but I don’t know about our prime minister,” he said as two Marines appeared at the lecterns with umbrellas. “There we go. That’s good.” He gestured to the soggy press corps, adding, “You guys I’m sorry about.”


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 8:02:18 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Here I am, trying to agree with you that it's a really dumb thing you've brought us to laugh at, DC, and you have to invoke Bush... I doubt he'd have known either.

I was nobody's candidate for a White House detail when I was in the service, but if the CIC had asked me to hold an umbrella in my right hand, I'd have figured that was an iron-clad 35-10 waiver.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 8:04:46 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

and you have to invoke Bush.

The dog was irresistible. Sorry!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 8:54:54 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

Should have known this would get "memed"!



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 10:14:10 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Whoever put that to together and included Reagan with somebody in a sport coat holding the umbrella, is obviously even a bigger fucking moron, than anybody trying to make a thing out of this.

I'm from Portland. We don't do umbrellas.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 10:24:45 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
FR
Should have known this would get "memed"!


How many of those 4 are Marine Corps? Reagan's looks to be Secret Service and Bush I & II's look more like army. Not having served in the military, I have the right to be ign'ant of the vagaries of military dress, but if there is only one Marine out of those 4, isn't it certainly possible that there is only one President, of the 4 shown, that has a soldier that falls under the USMC dress code reg's?

Regardless, doesn't the CIC have the authority to "commandeer" a soldier for these types of things? Aren't there actual things that are more important? I mean, we still have that chupacabra problem down in Texas, don't we??


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(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 10:30:27 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Interesting in that it reveals how little many people (even some military people) understand about the salute. All the Hollywood stuff about knights flipping up visors and centurions pounding their chests aside, this is the salient part of the protocol: Any military person recognizing a need to salute or a need to return one may do so anywhere at any time.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/salute.htm

Salutes don't belong to the military. There is no required format for a civilian dignitary on how to return one. The requirement to salute can be codified, but this meme that has been spread around on the internet lately about 'you aren't allowed to salute X, Y, Z' is simply ignorance mongering.


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

First of all, if all it was doing was a drizzle, then Obama had no need for a freaking umbrella. What is he afraid of? Melting?

quote:

“The gesture is of course quite wrong: Such a salute has always required the wearing of a uniform,” author and historian John Lukacs wrote in The New York Times in 2003.
USA/
“But there is more to this than a decline in military manners,” he added. “There is something puerile in the Reagan (and now Bush) salute. It is the joyful gesture of someone who likes playing soldier. It also represents an exaggeration of the president’s military role.
Source
”

It is actually wrong for the president to return a salute.

It was wrong when Republican Saint Ronald did it, when Bush did it, and Eisenhower, a retired 5 star, did not do it.



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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/17/2013 10:35:31 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
My ambivalence came to an end last week, when I saw a videotape of the president’s midnight trip to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, where he had participated, very early that morning, in the “dignified transfer” of 15 Army soldiers and three Drug Enforcement Administration agents killed that week in Afghanistan. Mr. Obama stood ramrod straight and saluted as six soldiers carried the coffin bearing the body of Sgt. Dale Griffin of Indiana off a C-17 transport aircraft and into a waiting van. His salute, it struck me, was impeccable in every way.

I'm a navy vet and we had slightly different rules about saluting, never salute indoors unless armed and only salute each officer once a day on the ship. I've always wondered why if the President is going to return salutes they don't learn to do it right.

However this action by President Obama smoothes a lot of that over for me. I don't care that he returns salutes and gets fairly sloppy doing it in the routine of the day but he stood and honored men who died at his command which was sorely lacking for a while there.

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/18/2013 4:05:46 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I'm a navy vet and we had slightly different rules about saluting, never salute indoors unless armed and only salute each officer once a day on the ship. I've always wondered why if the President is going to return salutes they don't learn to do it right.

Maybe he has other things on his mind than practicing his saluting until he can do it perfectly?

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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/18/2013 4:14:02 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		IMPEACH HIM !!!!!
sorry Im channeling michele bachman...
ok Im back
Yanno, I didnt think the gop/repubs/etc could get any crazier after the election.
This month has proven me wrong AGAIN.
Im much too kind...


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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/18/2013 4:23:49 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, impeach AND deport him.

Obviously, growing up in Kenya, he didn't learn these things.

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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/18/2013 5:34:12 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		You know it would be much easier if he would just have an attractive female intern blow him in the oval office. Please note I said attractive, sorry but Monica wasn't.

It would also help if we voted for Responsible and Intelligent politicians, regardless of the party.

Problem is that responsible and intelligent individuals do not run for public office.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: Obama's Worst Scandal Yet - 5/18/2013 6:33:18 AM   
Toysinbabeland


Posts: 1693
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
My ambivalence came to an end last week, when I saw a videotape of the president’s midnight trip to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, where he had participated, very early that morning, in the “dignified transfer” of 15 Army soldiers and three Drug Enforcement Administration agents killed that week in Afghanistan. Mr. Obama stood ramrod straight and saluted as six soldiers carried the coffin bearing the body of Sgt. Dale Griffin of Indiana off a C-17 transport aircraft and into a waiting van. His salute, it struck me, was impeccable in every way.

I'm a navy vet and we had slightly different rules about saluting, never salute indoors unless armed and only salute each officer once a day on the ship. I've always wondered why if the President is going to return salutes they don't learn to do it right.

However this action by President Obama smoothes a lot of that over for me. I don't care that he returns salutes and gets fairly sloppy doing it in the routine of the day but he stood and honored men who died at his command which was sorely lacking for a while there.




This is the same intention of any president returning a salute, why shouldn't our president salute the military that protects his life and the lives of the citizens that He serves?
To me if He were in charge is it not a gesture of showing He is pleased (i.e. ” good girl/boy”)? I'm not military, nor was I born in America, so please forgive me for not knowing, theprotocol, it is just a thought.


(in reply to DomKen)
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