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An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/17/2013 9:08:29 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		J.K. Rowling's seen the safety net from both sides: receiving benefits when she needed them and gladly paying to help others now.



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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/17/2013 9:26:20 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		Great post dc!

Another way to look at getting benefits and I hand up!
I admire JKRowling a bit more now.
She wants to pay her taxes, and is not hiding her money in other countries.

Good for her!

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As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
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NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/17/2013 10:01:13 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
J.K. Rowling's seen the safety net from both sides: receiving benefits when she needed them and gladly paying to help others now.


Who here wants to get rid of welfare/benefits for those who need them? The issue most people here have (among the ones that have issues with the US welfare system), is with those people who aren't just down on their luck, or have no choice in being able to sustain themselves. No one argues that those people should receive help. IMO, it sure doesn't sound like JK Rowling was a system abuser.

I take no issue with her wanting to pay taxes, and not secreting money away from the tax man. But, you do understand that that is her choice, right? Obviously, she understands how she could reduce her tax liability. She chooses to not do that. Good on her.

How about you let each individual decide on whether or not to pay more taxes?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/17/2013 10:46:14 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
J.K. Rowling's seen the safety net from both sides: receiving benefits when she needed them and gladly paying to help others now.


Who here wants to get rid of welfare/benefits for those who need them? The issue most people here have (among the ones that have issues with the US welfare system), is with those people who aren't just down on their luck, or have no choice in being able to sustain themselves. No one argues that those people should receive help. IMO, it sure doesn't sound like JK Rowling was a system abuser.

I take no issue with her wanting to pay taxes, and not secreting money away from the tax man. But, you do understand that that is her choice, right? Obviously, she understands how she could reduce her tax liability. She chooses to not do that. Good on her.

How about you let each individual decide on whether or not to pay more taxes?


I got attacked on this forum just a few days ago for being on disability.

As to Ms. Rowling's use of the benefit, I'm fairly sure sitting in a coffee shop writing a childrens book would stir the ire of some people.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/17/2013 11:38:09 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		"I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization."


-- Oliver Wendell Holmes





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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 4:33:14 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I got attacked on this forum just a few days ago for being on disability.
As to Ms. Rowling's use of the benefit, I'm fairly sure sitting in a coffee shop writing a childrens book would stir the ire of some people.


Are you on disability because you are disabled and can not work?

If so, then, IMO, you aren't abusing the system.

And, JK could have been drawing benefits, not because she was disabled, but because she was going through a rough patch. That happens. It's one of the reasons we have the safety net.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 6:45:26 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I got attacked on this forum just a few days ago for being on disability.
As to Ms. Rowling's use of the benefit, I'm fairly sure sitting in a coffee shop writing a childrens book would stir the ire of some people.


Are you on disability because you are disabled and can not work?

If so, then, IMO, you aren't abusing the system.

And, JK could have been drawing benefits, not because she was disabled, but because she was going through a rough patch. That happens. It's one of the reasons we have the safety net.


I have end stage kidney disease and cannot get insurance so I have to be on Medicare, to be on that I had to get a disability finding from SSA. I still work part time, arranged around my dialysis.

Ms. Rowlings was newly divorced with a small child and in a deep depression. She wrote the first book in coffee shops around Edinburgh while she pulled herself together.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 7:36:44 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		FR

Sounds to me like Ms Rowling has had a rags to riches fairytale life. If only her tale was the norm, and not the exception.

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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 8:53:32 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Great way to open up one of my favorite topics, DC.

Ms. Rowling had a better than average outcome (the equivalent to hitting the lottery), in transitioning from the safety net, but being caught before hitting the absolute bottom, stabilized, and then moving back into the economic mainstream should always be the goal for the short term welfare programs. There are programs focused toward the long term as well, but it might be best to address those separately.

When I was a young child, my family hit a place where we needed aid badly. There were some problems and delays in it coming, courtesy of certain other government programs of the day (catch me on the right thread about the current abuse of power scandal, on the right day, and I'll probably hit that with more detail), but there was much gratitude in the cat-piss stinking studio apartment we called home, when the assistance finally arrived.

Burt Reynolds did a safecracker movie some years back that featured a grocery store with facade of giant fruit above the roofline. I don't know how many adults can vividly remember a shopping trip from their childhood, but I do, and that was the grocery store we went to. Corno's. It was a sixteen block walk, and after we put the food away in our dead empty cupboards, my stepfather took the cart back to the store. Mom made tuna and rice.

It was onward, and upward from there. I've taken a quick bounce across the net myself a couple times, greatly improving my diet with food stamps for a little while as a student, and getting my class A license paid for through a vocational program later on.

The problem we get from the welfare programs, a full blown social and cultural problem, is when the safety net becomes a hammock, and multi-generational way of life. Some of that got fixed when we went from AFDC to TANF, but the effects linger, the new limits are riddled with easily exploited loopholes, and the broader system of welfare is spread across multiple agencies and programs. There is a lot more we could do to make the whole system better, with fewer self-inflicted social wounds.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 3:37:48 PM   
TricklessMagic


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/14/2009
Status: offline 		It's England, if that is how they like to roll then let them roll that way. I was on the Florida Bar Referral Panel for low income folks and more often than not they were check collectors. Physically fit but for some mental issues like anxiety and depression. You know what most of us feel on a weekly basis working full-time jobs and worrying about bills. If folks have legitimate health problems I don't have a problem with them receiving help but their productivity should have to be maximized first before just handing them a check. I know a cancer survivor who is fighting her third battle with breast cancer and is working to earn the capped $1,000 a week she's allowed to earn while she receives welfare and healthcare. She could work, and wants to work forty hours a week but then she'd lose the healthcare coverage for the cancer treatment and that's the biggest thing. That's where I have a problem. She needs the healthcare so let her work a forty hour work week and simply take ten percent of her paycheck. From a forty hour work week she'd earn more combined than the $1,000 plus the welfare but the system won't let her.

We have crops that need harvesting, buildings that have to be torn down, and rather than pay people to take care of it, we give them handouts because their bodies are fit but their minds are supposedly unhealthy. It don't take much brain power to bend at the back and pick beans. But we will leave these unhealthy people free to sit on their asses and pickup drug habits (the depressed and anxious ones). If you can't physically work or you are younger than 16 (16 year olds should get help if they maintain good grades or a part time job of twenty hours or more) then you should get some help. If you are physically able to work but for some reason are mentally unfit to where you sit and color all day (seriously I've seen it doing Pro Bono for friends of mine who are Targeted Case Managers for Medicaid) but can reason and drive a car, then you need to be picking fruit and harvesting crops for forty hours a week in order to receive aid. If the mentally unfit has a break down then take them to the hospital till they are fit to work again. Don't hand them money to spend on what they want.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 4:13:58 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

How about you let each individual decide on whether or not to pay more taxes?

Wouldn't that necessarily include deciding not to pay taxes at all?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 4:22:24 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Sounds to me like Ms Rowling has had a rags to riches fairytale life. If only her tale was the norm, and not the exception.


The thread is about someone who was on welfare and now wants to pay taxes to suport that welare system. Not about how kewel it would be if everyone was rich.

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 4:42:21 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic

It's England, if that is how they like to roll then let them roll that way.


Wrong...it is not about england it is about someone who has money and wants to pay taxes to support a welfare system that helped her....perhaps rereading the op might help clear that up?


quote:

I was on the Florida Bar Referral Panel for low income folks and more often than not they were check collectors. Physically fit but for some mental issues like anxiety and depression.


Like the subject of the op?


quote:


You know what most of us feel on a weekly basis working full-time jobs and worrying about bills.


Exactly how does being in a florida bar qualify one to make medical judgements based on opinions formed without personal examination?

quote:

If folks have legitimate health problems I don't have a problem with them receiving help but their productivity should have to be maximized first before just handing them a check.


So If a person has a broken leg they should take a job where they don't have to stand?


quote:

I know a cancer survivor who is fighting her third battle with breast cancer.


You know someone with three tits????

quote:


and is working to earn the capped $1,000 a week she's allowed to earn while she receives welfare and healthcare.


$52,000 per year is the welfare cap????



quote:

She could work, and wants to work forty hours a week but then she'd lose the healthcare coverage for the cancer treatment and that's the biggest thing. That's where I have a problem. She needs the healthcare so let her work a forty hour work week and simply take ten percent of her paycheck. From a forty hour work week she'd earn more combined than the $1,000 plus the welfare but the system won't let her.


Not sure just what the point is here.

quote:

We have crops that need harvesting, buildings that have to be torn down, and rather than pay people to take care of it, we give them handouts because their bodies are fit but their minds are supposedly unhealthy. It don't take much brain power to bend at the back and pick beans.



So we take mentaly ill people and force them to do manual labor...How much brain power did it take to think that one up?

quote:

But we will leave these unhealthy people free to sit on their asses and pickup drug habits (the depressed and anxious ones).


Any sort of a cite to validate this mindnumbingly stupid statement?


quote:

If you can't physically work or you are younger than 16 (16 year olds should get help if they maintain good grades or a part time job of twenty hours or more)then you should get some help.


There are child labor laws that prohibit that sort of moronic behaviour.



quote:

If you are physically able to work but for some reason are mentally unfit to where you sit and color all day (seriously I've seen it doing Pro Bono for friends of mine who are Targeted Case Managers for Medicaid) but can reason and drive a car, then you need to be picking fruit and harvesting crops for forty hours a week in order to receive aid. If the mentally unfit has a break down then take them to the hospital till they are fit to work again. Don't hand them money to spend on what they want.


Absolutely the stupidist thing I have seen posted today.


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/18/2013 4:44:53 PM >

(in reply to TricklessMagic)
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RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 8:03:01 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I have end stage kidney disease and cannot get insurance so I have to be on Medicare, to be on that I had to get a disability finding from SSA. I still work part time, arranged around my dialysis.
Ms. Rowlings was newly divorced with a small child and in a deep depression. She wrote the first book in coffee shops around Edinburgh while she pulled herself together.


I'm truly sorry to hear that, Ken. And, like I said, you aren't abusing the system. Neither was JK. She was using it as it was intended to be used.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 8:09:55 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

How about you let each individual decide on whether or not to pay more taxes?

Wouldn't that necessarily include deciding not to pay taxes at all?


In theory, sure, but that's not what I'm saying. The Lib's talk about "fair share" and other shit. How many of those Lib's also take their deductions?

This next part is stated in general terms, and not specifically at you: You rich and think the rich need to pay more? Then get off your ass and pay more. But, don't say you think the rich (of which you are one) need to pay more and don't pay more yourself unless every other rich person is paying more.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/18/2013 8:11:11 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
FR
Sounds to me like Ms Rowling has had a rags to riches fairytale life. If only her tale was the norm, and not the exception.

The thread is about someone who was on welfare and now wants to pay taxes to suport that welare system. Not about how kewel it would be if everyone was rich.


I don't think Rob meant his statement as a derision of JK Rowling.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/19/2013 6:53:57 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Wouldn't that necessarily include deciding not to pay taxes at all?


quote:

In theory, sure, but that's not what I'm saying.



Self contradictory

quote:

The Lib's talk about "fair share" and other shit.


"Fair share" and "flat tax" seem to always share the same sentence. Have the "libs" co-opted that plank of the "not libs" or is it now a shared goal?


quote:

How many of those Lib's also take their deductions?


Does this mean that in order to be a "lib" one must pay more in taxes than they legally owe by not taking their legal deductions?
If not then what the fuck does it mean?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/19/2013 7:08:22 AM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/19/2013 7:02:04 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
FR
Sounds to me like Ms Rowling has had a rags to riches fairytale life. If only her tale was the norm, and not the exception.

The thread is about someone who was on welfare and now wants to pay taxes to suport that welare system. Not about how kewel it would be if everyone was rich.


I don't think Rob meant his statement as a derision of JK Rowling.



Nothing in my post suggest any dirision of ms. rowling.
Why the defense aganst an attack not made?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/19/2013 7:34:06 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I got attacked on this forum just a few days ago for being on disability.



No, you got butthurt. It's a risk of deciding to play games with broad brushes.

Be glad you weren't living in LA when things took their turn. The social services folks would have steered you to move to an area with cheaper housing costs, without mentioning that kidney patients die 15 years sooner there, because the local services don't match the dumping of the needy.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: An Interesting Take on Welfare and Taxes - 5/19/2013 7:50:34 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic



quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I got attacked on this forum just a few days ago for being on disability.



No, you got butthurt. It's a risk of deciding to play games with broad brushes.

Be glad you weren't living in LA when things took their turn. The social services folks would have steered you to move to an area with cheaper housing costs, without mentioning that kidney patients die 15 years sooner there, because the local services don't match the dumping of the needy.

Yes, you did attack me for being sick and no I won't ever forget about it. You whine and complain and accuse people of all kinds of shit around here on a regular basis. If you expect us all to jjust give you a pass then you are a very clueless person.

Now why don't you do what you've claimed to have done several times already and put me back on hide.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 20
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