Was I out of order (Full Version)

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bigblackone -> Was I out of order (5/21/2013 5:43:51 AM)

The following conversation took place after read a submisse ladies profile
which basically asked for a caring man.

ME - So you must be a lady who requires a man who is caring,
honest, genuine, respects you and treats you well. A man who protects you
and offers you security. A man who thinks your beautiful and
the most precious treasure in the world, just like his car or gold chain.

Reply- Not neccesarily. But a person who views me had human
and equal, and treat me has such at the begining.

Me- I know what your saying and I would treat you better
than my car. So do I get a name and a photo. I assuming that's
not you in the photo. Why did you choose the profile name ____.
(desribe her has a fake man made fibre)

Reply- No thats not me. No you do not get a name or photo.
I do not know you from Adam. I value my privacy and security
greater than that.

Me- Thats cool, but a name would be nice.
What interests do you have outside bdsm. Macs

Reply - No. Good luck in your search.
Pushing something is never smart.
(user blockef me)

Comments please ladies.



AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 5:53:57 AM)

There's not much to comment on. I guess your original post put her off (and in truth, it would have put me off too, since I'm not into objectification and I wouldn't take being compared to a gold chain as a compliment). She was polite enough to give you a reply at least. She also obviously felt that the second message was too soon for a name and photo - perhaps she was already wary because of your first message. It's also possible something in your profile made her feel you wouldn't be someone she wanted to share personal info with. Maybe she didn't like the way you described your intended rules. A lot of people may be put off by the two mentions about expecting someone to get on the phone and prove who they are - because it makes them feel like they're untrustworthy from the start or because they feel you might push for it sooner than they feel safe. If it were me, the reference to asking an ex partner for nude pictures would put me off replying - I'm sure you can guess why!

This seems like a pretty mild exchange to be honest. She was polite with you. I wouldn't say you were 'out of order' but for me personally, it wasn't a fantastic start either. A lot of women will block men after contacting them simply because a lot of guys follow up rejection with abuse and/or begging, and you can't always tell who will do that. It can be easier just to block anyone you say no to.



angelikaJ -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 6:23:12 AM)

You moved way too fast; that may have been the thing in her profile that stuck out to you, but in gearing your conversation that way, you were skipping over the "Let's get acquainted part" and talking about how you would treat her if she was yours. That is an overly familiar posture and will turn off most women.

If you saw someone out in the big, wide world, would that be your approach?

Comfortable online interactions are pretty much the same as how you generally relate to people off-line.

If you are looking for someone to have a casual hookup with then I can see not wanting to take your time.
But if you want a relationship with a capital R, you may want to rethink things so you don't come across as so eager and well, pushy.

There is a difference between "interested" and desperate.

Pushy and desperate feel icky to the person on the other end of the dialogue.

Pushy puts women on the defensive.

When the Man who became Master to me engaged me via cmails 4+ years ago, He asked interesting questions.
They weren't about relationships and they weren't about kink.
They were about things in my profile that expressed he was really interested in getting to know me as a person.

It worked.
[:)]


edit to add: [my] Master is a very caring man.
But it was never something he talked about in our getting to know one another.
It was His actions that proved that.

I tend to be a bit suspect over people who try to sell me on particular character traits.

Actions speak.





theshytype -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 6:29:23 AM)

If it had been me, someone asking for a name and/or pic that quickly would've scared me away. I wouldn't share that to just anyone and a certain level of comfort must be reached. Any personal info, even as simple as a name, are not things I'm going to pass out to just anyone.
I also, personally, do not like when someone comes at me with any type of assumptions when they know absolutely nothing about me. I consider myself a pretty complex person that cannot be truly described in any profile and it would irritate me if someone tried summing me up in one sentence, especially right away.
It could've been your profile, your approach, or your delivery. Not saying you did anything wrong (everyone is different and it may work for some), it just would've pushed me away.



chatterbox24 -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 7:11:22 AM)

I liked your approach until the very last words, like a car or a gold chain. LMAO.

.... I thought it was a sweet message, but the last part totally cracked me up.


the other stuff maybe a tad to personal right off the bat, but not out of line in my opinion.



DarkSteven -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 7:16:48 AM)

1. Saying that a gold chain is a repcious treasure is outside my culture. I would be put off by comparison to material things.

2. You were entirely correct to ask why she chose her name.

3. She has her reasons for not giving her name and photo. While I do not know what they are, I would have respected them and just kept chatting.

4. At the point she refused, she refused. Your saying "A name would be nice" was your second attempt to get it from her, after she told you No once.

So, if you were to meet her in person and make a pass at her and she told you no - what assurance does she have that you wouldn't push her? Looks like you don't respect a refusal.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 7:25:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigblackone


ME - So you must be a lady who

I wouldn't start with this. What if she isn't what you describe? What if she is but doesn't like being placed into a box from the get-go? Then you've already achieved a "no" before you've finished your first sentence. Not worth the risk. Better to start open-ended.

Use the same sentence, but say, "Are you a... ?" or, "Perhaps you're a..."

Give her something to talk about. Ask a question or two, so she has a socially easy way to respond to you.

Did you sign your emails with your own name? If not, asking for her name was dumb. I've found a good strategy to be to (1) sign my name to my emails three times; (2) get her to laugh at something I wrote; and (3) then ask, "Can I have your name please?" If she hasn't provided it by then, she almost always apologizes and does.

Finally, you're misusing "your" instead of "you're." (You're beautiful = you are beautiful) That's going to put a lot of women off, or make them think you're not smart, even if you are. So grammar check helps.

Good luck.[;)]



DesFIP -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 8:17:20 AM)

Your opening sentence conveys a sense of sneering to me. That you don't think she's precious or deserves to be treated that way.
Telling her you would take better care of her than your car also conveys a sense that you aren't competent in relationship skills.

Pushing after she says no indicates you don't accept a no and she would be unsafe if she was ever in private with you. You come off as a guy who commits date rape if he thinks he can get away with it. And that's disgusting and not the sign of an alpha male you wish to present yourself as.



OsideGirl -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 8:58:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigblackone

The following conversation took place after read a submisse ladies profile
which basically asked for a caring man.

ME - So you must be a lady who requires a man who is caring,
honest, genuine, respects you and treats you well. A man who protects you
and offers you security. A man who thinks your beautiful and
the most precious treasure in the world, just like his car or gold chain.
Here: You put your ideas onto her. It's honestly better to ask for clarification than assume. These are words on the screen and you don't have facial expression or body language to help guide you.

quote:

Reply- Not neccesarily. But a person who views me had human
and equal, and treat me has such at the begining.
So, here she just told you that your assumption was inaccurate.

quote:

Me- I know what your saying and I would treat you better
than my car. So do I get a name and a photo. I assuming that's
not you in the photo. Why did you choose the profile name ____.
(desribe her has a fake man made fibre)
The car reference was a bad one. It's like being treated better than your car is some sort of prize. Most women expect to be treated better than a car. And it shows that you're one of "those guys" about your car.

quote:

Reply- No thats not me. No you do not get a name or photo.
I do not know you from Adam. I value my privacy and security
greater than that.
She just told you she's not comfortable with that.

quote:

Me- Thats cool, but a name would be nice.
What interests do you have outside bdsm. Macs
You just patted her on her head and told her that you don't care if she's uncomfortable by asking for her name again.

quote:

Reply - No. Good luck in your search.
Pushing something is never smart.
(user blockef me)
She just withdrew because you didn't respect even a small boundary and she's had enough experience with the guys here to know that guys that can't respect even the smallest of things will just keep pushing until you end up blocking them anyway.





MasterCaneman -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 9:15:07 AM)

I agree with the others. You lost her when you compared her to inanimate objects. No one likes that, no matter how 'submissive' they say they are.



BitaTruble -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 10:43:43 AM)

Question: Was I out of order?
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigblackone

(user blocked me)


She already answered your question. Will you continue to be 'out of order'?

Now, that will depend on the lady and whether your approach tickles her fancy. Lots of fish out there, dude, so if you are sure of your bait (and I don't think you are or you wouldn't have put the email on the forum in the first place) keep using it or.. get different bait. That lady already got away. I wouldn't try to catch her again.. just let her go and move on to the next lady who catches your eye.

You might want to rethink equating a living, breathing human to a car or a piece of jewelry. It points to possession and that's a bit strong for a first email.

"A man who thinks your beautiful and the most precious treasure in the world, just like his car or gold chain."

A man who thinks you're beautiful and the most precious treasure in the world, like a cherished memory or favorite song. <-- way different, dude.. you should trust me on this.

Also, take 'no' for an answer dude and avoid the appearance of passive-aggression. It's not attractive and, as you have learned, it just doesn't work.

Better luck next time.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 10:55:15 AM)

Uh huh, someone with the gall to call themselves 'bigblackone' wants to know why a female chose a specific nick?

You gotta luuuuuv the lulz on this forum.

Seriously though, why did you chose 'bigblackone' for your nick? It tells me that you are all about your dick. If you approached me with that nick, I wouldn't talk to you. I like males who understand who they are as a person is far more important than the (supposed) size of their penis.

Your conversation is pushy and condescending, you come across like a dick, and I am not using that term in a *good* way.

So yeah, you were out of order, but I don't think help with your chat lines is going to do much for you. You need to spend some time (like weeks or months) examining who you are as a person, and why you have such seriously low self esteem as to think you're just a body part. Then spend some time thinking about your attitudes towards females. While you're doing all that thinking, stop seeking any sort of a partner. You might be 39, but you're not ready for an adult relationship.

JMO YMMV



lilcracker -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 1:33:52 PM)

I personally did not see anything wrong in it...and about being compared to an object, that thought never crossed my mind at all. The that's cool, but a name with be nice....to me it says, Okay but I do wish I knew your name. I have often said, no to my first name, and said you can call me lilcracker if someone got pushy and I did not see anything pushy about what was said by the OP.





bigblackone -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 4:43:47 PM)

Thanks for all your comments, the object jibe was a bit of a joke.

The profile name was mean't to be bigblackdom bbut that was taken



Politesub53 -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 5:03:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigblackone

The following conversation took place after read a submisse ladies profile
which basically asked for a caring man.

ME - So you must be a lady who requires a man who is caring,
honest, genuine, respects you and treats you well. A man who protects you
and offers you security. A man who thinks your beautiful and
the most precious treasure in the world, just like his car or gold chain.



Would this be your opening line if chatting to a woman in a bar or other social situation.

If the answer is no, there is your problem but if the answer is yes, again there is your problem.



Kaliko -> RE: Was I out of order (5/21/2013 6:11:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigblackone


Me- I know what your saying and I would treat you better
than my car. So do I get a name and a photo. I assuming that's
not you in the photo. Why did you choose the profile name ____.
(desribe her has a fake man made fibre)




Too quick. Way, way too quick.



LadyPact -> RE: Was I out of order (5/22/2013 2:18:36 AM)

I'm not a submissive female. I happen to be a Domme. With this in mind, here are My thoughts......

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigblackone

The following conversation took place after read a submisse ladies profile
which basically asked for a caring man.

ME - So you must be a lady who requires a man who is caring,
honest, genuine, respects you and treats you well. A man who protects you
and offers you security. A man who thinks your beautiful and
the most precious treasure in the world, just like his car or gold chain.

The first two lines sound like previously rehearsed stuff that is regurgitated because you think it's what chicks want to hear. The third is complete and total fail. Your gold chain is really such a treasure? Do you really expect to take care of a woman the same as you do a necklace?


quote:

Me- I know what your saying and I would treat you better
than my car. So do I get a name and a photo. I assuming that's
not you in the photo. Why did you choose the profile name ____.
(desribe her has a fake man made fibre)

You didn't hear what she was saying at all and you're *still* comparing her to things that don't even breathe. Shows your lack of competence and experience.

Second email asking for a person's name. Pfffft. The way to get a person's name is not by accusing them of being fake.

You could have saved yourself here by just sticking with asking why the person picked a certain profile name. That's a way to get her to open up, but you shut her down by pushing her comfort zone.


quote:

Me- Thats cool, but a name would be nice.
What interests do you have outside bdsm. Macs

In other words, you just told her that you don't respect her boundaries. You went for the obvious alternative method but probably already showed that you don't care about her preferences.


quote:

(user blockef me)

Comments please ladies.
I'd have blocked you, too. Any woman on the net can tell you that we don't have to deal with those who can't play by our rules. We have more than enough options.




DarkSteven -> RE: Was I out of order (5/22/2013 5:52:19 AM)

OP, just for a bit of perspective - I've been chatting with myotherself here online for three or four years. She's shared with me her search for a Dom, both prior to and after meeting her Master DevilsTorturer. She's told me of her current and previous jobs, her degrees, and her housing status. She's shared with me the pet names that she and her fellow Brits had for their American coworkers, and the pet names that the Americans had for the Brits.

And I still don't know her first name.

LadyPact, I don't think that OP was calling the woman fake. I think he was commenting on her username, which was a synthetic fiber. Undoubtedly her name was Polyester4u or something similar.



lizi -> RE: Was I out of order (5/22/2013 6:03:26 AM)

She told you what went wrong, you pushed too hard. I'd have said that too, I won't waste time with men who insist on pushing past social and personal boundaries too quickly, especially after I give them a warning and they don't pay any attention to it. That creeps me out. Honestly what does it say? It says she's not worth general societal niceties, it says she's an object (which you reinforced) and not worth being treated as a person with you using typical social conventions, it says her specific wishes don't matter to you, it says you're in this for yourself.

I've done this same thing with someone I was talking to, he brought up a subject, I told him it was off limits for our initial first conversation where we were covering general ground, he brought it up again later, I terminated the conversation and blocked his ass.

What did you expect? You insisted on asking for information this woman said she wouldn't give you.

If you want to make a better impression use your manners next time and talk to a stranger like she's a stranger - keep a respectful distance and for God's sake get a spellcheck program and use it.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Was I out of order (5/22/2013 6:13:09 AM)

Sorry, I don't think 'bigblackdom' is any better as a nick. Now you're leading with your race. Again, is that all there is to you?

I scanned your profile, and you have tossed in some non BDSM interests, like the music. Good. But it's not clear what you're looking for. A quick fuck? A life long partner?

How you approach a female, online or in real time, is going to vary drastically depending on what you want.




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