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Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/23/2013 4:38:10 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Status: offline 		This could be a lot of fun. They've now, officially lost my business.

Samsung Fucks Up

Even more offensive (to me) was the "expert" Feminista apologist:

quote:



Gail Dines, an expert on sexist images in the media and a professor of sociology and women’s studies at Wheelock College in Boston, agrees. “It’s not funny because it normalizes masculine behavior and makes a joke of it,” she told Yahoo! Shine in a phone interview. “It’s the reality of many women’s lives, who get dinner ready, take care of the children, help with homework and do the housework, while the husbands are, in fact, sloth-like.”

Further, she argues, men, who are in power in our society, cannot legitimately cry sexism. “You can say [this ad is] prejudiced, in bad taste, insulting, not funny,” she said. “But it can’t be sexist. Just like a black person can’t be racist. Sexism is a word with a very specific meaning, which is a certain group having more access than another group to the things that make life worth living, such as high wages and good housing.”




< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/23/2013 4:41:02 PM >

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/23/2013 5:46:28 PM   
TricklessMagic


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Status: offline 		The commercial is cute. The "Expert" is wrong about the whole black people can't be racist thing. About sexism, I don't know which way to lean. If the definition of sexism is the denial of equal access to what we all have a right to, then I get her point. I'm not saying I agree with her, but I don't think she's totally off base.

Any guy offended by this is the guy who sits on his ass and doesn't hold up the other half of the household. I grew up in a household where my father worked eighty hours a week. Cooked dinner five nights a week. Did all the laundry but for my mother's underwear. Vaccummed the house. And the rest was done by paid help. My mother worked sixty hours a week, made breakfast on Sundays when we ate at home for breakfast, and spent the rest of the time bitching. She almost never cooked dinner or cleaned.


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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/23/2013 6:31:50 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		No real (and twue!) man is going to be bothered by this in the slightest. I can see the humor in going there, but seriously...? With that punchline on the joke?



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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/23/2013 7:07:29 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		Okay. . . so she turned him into a "Stepford Husband," in her daydream Whatever. I personally am tired of the 'men are idiots' meme constantly on tv shows and commercials, but I would not call it evil. Trite, yes.

As far as the academic twit that you quoted, I shall offer this:

"... when author Margaret Atwood polled men about what they fear most from women, the men replied, "That they'll laugh at us." If that doesn't make it crystal clear what our strategy should be toward the patriarchs, frankly, I don't know what does."

-- Susan Jane Gilman from "Kiss My Tiara"

So. . . yeah. . . a commercial that creates laughter at men. . . and she is COMPLAINING about it. Sheesh. Some people would complain if they were beheaded with a golden axe.

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/23/2013 10:34:00 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:


It’s the reality of many women’s lives, who get dinner ready, take care of the children, help with homework and do the housework, while the husbands are, in fact, sloth-like.


When I meet a woman actually capable of doing all these things then I'll give a shit. Until then, I think I'll just sit here and watch another rerun of Battlestar Galactica.



< Message edited by RottenJohnny -- 5/23/2013 10:43:55 PM >

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 2:19:33 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Even more offensive (to me) was the "expert" Feminista apologist:
quote:


Gail Dines, an expert on sexist images in the media and a professor of sociology and women’s studies at Wheelock College in Boston, agrees. “It’s not funny because it normalizes masculine behavior and makes a joke of it,” she told Yahoo! Shine in a phone interview. “It’s the reality of many women’s lives, who get dinner ready, take care of the children, help with homework and do the housework, while the husbands are, in fact, sloth-like.”

Further, she argues, men, who are in power in our society, cannot legitimately cry sexism. “You can say [this ad is] prejudiced, in bad taste, insulting, not funny,” she said. “But it can’t be sexist. Just like a black person can’t be racist. Sexism is a word with a very specific meaning, which is a certain group having more access than another group to the things that make life worth living, such as high wages and good housing.”



I had to laugh, really. The clip is ok IMHO, humor is humor, very often based on topics, we cannot pretend that humor is discrimination even if I am absolutely sure about which would have been the reaction of feminists to a similar clip with the roles reversed...

I also do not protest against the picture of the situation of "many" women. As long as nobody speaks about majority but only "many", which can be any number expressed in millions, I guess she is right.

But ... a black man cannot be racist!? What kind of fucked-up logic is this!?!?


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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 3:39:08 AM   
epiphiny43


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:


It’s the reality of many women’s lives, who get dinner ready, take care of the children, help with homework and do the housework, while the husbands are, in fact, sloth-like.


When I meet a woman actually capable of doing all these things then I'll give a shit. Until then, I think I'll just sit here and watch another rerun of Battlestar Galactica.



Maybe you should turn off the TV and get out some? All the working or homemaking mothers I know do all this and more. It goes with children. A few of the fathers do a lot, more don't.

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 3:54:11 AM   
epiphiny43


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Even more offensive (to me) was the "expert" Feminista apologist:
quote:


Gail Dines, an expert on sexist images in the media and a professor of sociology and women’s studies at Wheelock College in Boston, agrees. “It’s not funny because it normalizes masculine behavior and makes a joke of it,” she told Yahoo! Shine in a phone interview. “It’s the reality of many women’s lives, who get dinner ready, take care of the children, help with homework and do the housework, while the husbands are, in fact, sloth-like.”

Further, she argues, men, who are in power in our society, cannot legitimately cry sexism. “You can say [this ad is] prejudiced, in bad taste, insulting, not funny,” she said. “But it can’t be sexist. Just like a black person can’t be racist. Sexism is a word with a very specific meaning, which is a certain group having more access than another group to the things that make life worth living, such as high wages and good housing.”


....
But ... a black man cannot be racist!? What kind of fucked-up logic is this!?!?


The concepts of sexism and racism are firmly based on inequality of role or social position. Slaves can't be racist against Owners (Real, not BDSM pretend) and women in a patriarchal society can't be sexist. The words directly imply differences in power and position along with the attitudes and behavior of those holding advantage. They are terms that define the power relationship as well as usually disrespect of the 'bottom' as a justification for the behavior. What you are thinking is 'prejudice' or gender chauvinsm. Which even the most powerless can enjoy.

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 4:40:28 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

The concepts of sexism and racism are firmly based on inequality of role or social position. Slaves can't be racist against Owners (Real, not BDSM pretend) and women in a patriarchal society can't be sexist. The words directly imply differences in power and position along with the attitudes and behavior of those holding advantage. They are terms that define the power relationship as well as usually disrespect of the 'bottom' as a justification for the behavior. What you are thinking is 'prejudice' or gender chauvinsm. Which even the most powerless can enjoy.



That's where the concepts are based but, that isn't what the words have evolved into. Unfortunately, people co-opt words to fit an agenda and the language changes.

If someone makes a statement: "Women are just a bunch of sluts", is that sexist? By common parlance and usage, it certainly is.

If someone makes a statement: "Black people look alike", is that racist? By today's definitions, it is.

Now, what damage are the words doing? Are they insulting? Certainly. Are they sexist or racist? Not really, based upon the denotation of those words. Unfortunately, the connotation is what rules the roost, these days.

So, for men to be upset with this advertisement is no more out of line than the ladies that get up in arms about ... oh ... the topless scene with Kirk's new paramour in the new Star Trek movie. There's nothing to see here but people will gawk and twist the facts to fit an agenda.

Well, now that the words have been redefined, I think this commercial falls squarely into the "sexist" category.

While I usually agree with TM, it's not just the guys that the commercial portrays. It's the guys that have done their fair share in relationships. It's the guys that have raised kids on their own. It's the guys who were married to the polar opposite females who have no resemblance to the neanderthal in the commercial who are upset, also.

Read some of the comments under the Youtube video. It might surprise you a bit.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 5:08:36 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43
The concepts of sexism and racism are firmly based on inequality of role or social position. Slaves can't be racist against Owners (Real, not BDSM pretend) and women in a patriarchal society can't be sexist. The words directly imply differences in power and position along with the attitudes and behavior of those holding advantage. They are terms that define the power relationship as well as usually disrespect of the 'bottom' as a justification for the behavior. What you are thinking is 'prejudice' or gender chauvinsm. Which even the most powerless can enjoy.

That's where the concepts are based but, that isn't what the words have evolved into. Unfortunately, people co-opt words to fit an agenda and the language changes.
If someone makes a statement: "Women are just a bunch of sluts", is that sexist? By common parlance and usage, it certainly is.
If someone makes a statement: "Black people look alike", is that racist? By today's definitions, it is.
Now, what damage are the words doing? Are they insulting? Certainly. Are they sexist or racist? Not really, based upon the denotation of those words. Unfortunately, the connotation is what rules the roost, these days.
So, for men to be upset with this advertisement is no more out of line than the ladies that get up in arms about ... oh ... the topless scene with Kirk's new paramour in the new Star Trek movie. There's nothing to see here but people will gawk and twist the facts to fit an agenda.
Well, now that the words have been redefined, I think this commercial falls squarely into the "sexist" category.
While I usually agree with TM, it's not just the guys that the commercial portrays. It's the guys that have done their fair share in relationships. It's the guys that have raised kids on their own. It's the guys who were married to the polar opposite females who have no resemblance to the neanderthal in the commercial who are upset, also.
Read some of the comments under the Youtube video. It might surprise you a bit.
Peace and comfort,
Michael


I watched the ad. I thought the portrayal of the male was humorous, perfect face for the role. After watching it, I was a touch offended. Offended that there are so many people that were offended by this commercial.

Much ado about nothing, imo.


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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 5:15:23 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I watched the ad. I thought the portrayal of the male was humorous, perfect face for the role. After watching it, I was a touch offended. Offended that there are so many people that were offended by this commercial.

Much ado about nothing, imo.


You're not often right, but when you are right, you're well right.


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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 5:27:31 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43
The concepts of sexism and racism are firmly based on inequality of role or social position. Slaves can't be racist against Owners (Real, not BDSM pretend) and women in a patriarchal society can't be sexist. The words directly imply differences in power and position along with the attitudes and behavior of those holding advantage. They are terms that define the power relationship as well as usually disrespect of the 'bottom' as a justification for the behavior. What you are thinking is 'prejudice' or gender chauvinsm. Which even the most powerless can enjoy.

Hello and thank you for your answer.

1. Inequality can exist in both directions at the same time, discriminating one group in some aspect and the other group in other aspects. In Spain for example, a male hairdresser has often to suffer prejudice which does not affect a female hairdresser. In the USA, possibly (I do not know for sure, my judgment is from the film "8th Mile" :) ) a white rapper can have problems of acceptance a black rapper would have not.

This should be enough to cancel your objections, but if it were not...

2. The words imply *only* differences in attitudes *or* behaviour, not both. Merrian-Webster acceptation Nr. 1 of racism: "The belief...". Same applies for Oxford dictionary, unique acceptation. This is enough, a belief, and of course both slaves and owners can share the same belief.

This should be enough to cancel your objections, but if it were still not...

3. In the reality, females have been important transmitters of sexism (male superiority!) thoughts to the next generations, both male and female. Changing the meaning of the words to transform these mothers into something else as sexist mothers, leads to a magical scenario where sexism appears from nothing in the (male) child. It is completely unpractical.

This should be enough to cancel your objections, but if it were *still* not...

4. Saying that a female cannot be sexist is itself a sexist assert. It discriminates by sex. A bad idea, trying to fight discrimination with discrimination.

This should be enough to cancel your objections, but even if it was *still* not yet...

5. Ms. Dines did not give a definition of "racism". If she would have done, I would have just tell that, similar to her definition of sexism, her definition is simplistic (point 1), misleading (point 2), useless (point 3) and sexist/racist (point 4). But she did not, so we have the definitions of the Merriam Webster or the Oxford dictionary, and they definitely support that blacks can indeed be racists (in the USA and overseas).

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/racism?q=racism

Best regards.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 5/24/2013 5:32:21 AM >

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 5:50:59 AM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
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Status: offline 		Rather than try to deal with the many 'differences' in how we read English and see human and American culture, I'll just point out the difficulties arguing subtleties in a language you don't have a great grasp of. The thread on taxation is similar. You use words you think you understand but don't. Close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. In language, commonality is everything.
Don't feel put upon, with remarkably few exceptions, forums attract people with exactly your disabilities, people whose linguistic reach exceeds their grasp. Like Linus trying to discuss things with Lucy, at some point refuge has to be taken from the usual forum discourse because 'my stomach hurts'.

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 6:02:53 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43
Rather than try to deal with the many 'differences' in how we read English and see human and American culture, I'll just point out the difficulties arguing subtleties in a language you don't have a great grasp of. The thread on taxation is similar. You use words you think you understand but don't. Close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. In language, commonality is everything.
Don't feel put upon, with remarkably few exceptions, forums attract people with exactly your disabilities, people whose linguistic reach exceeds their grasp. Like Linus trying to discuss things with Lucy, at some point refuge has to be taken from the usual forum discourse because 'my stomach hurts'.

Hello, epiphini:

The Merrian-Webster is American. And "belief" is "belief". Unless you prove me that I am misunderstanding something, I think that all my objections hold.

I do not feel "put upon", I just think that you got your arguments completely crushed and you cannot find anything else as trying to flee by disqualifying my understanding of English.

And it's ok, you know, forums attract people with exactly this disability...

Best regards.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 5/24/2013 6:05:00 AM >

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 6:29:01 AM   
kalikshama


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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 7:46:51 AM   
LizDeluxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

They've now, officially lost my business.


All across America there are ten women waiting to take the place in line of every guy who got butthurt over that ad.

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 7:53:32 AM   
mnottertail


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The thing was cute.   Lets take a smoke break. 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 5/24/2013 7:57:42 AM >

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 9:08:14 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

They've now, officially lost my business.


All across America there are ten women waiting to take the place in line of every guy who got butthurt over that ad.

LOL just got my new samsung cellphone:)

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 9:12:34 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

They've now, officially lost my business.


All across America there are ten women waiting to take the place in line of every guy who got butthurt over that ad.


... and I may start shopping at A&F since they won't stock for fat bitches.

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Sexism And the Feminista Response - 5/24/2013 9:14:45 AM   
tazzygirl


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