RE: reporting things

RE: reporting things (Full Version)

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freedomdwarf1 -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 2:11:42 PM)
Does it not say that you must be the owner of, or have permission to use, any images you upload to the site?? So surely that puts the onus squarely on the shoulders of the uploaders to prove that they are legally allowed to upload the image?? Anything in question should be taken down first and then let the uploaders show proof that they are legally entitled to upload it. And don't say it can't be done with the current staffing levels because it is done on many sites including some that are owned and run by just two (yes, 2) people. I thinks it's just a cop-out.

LafayetteLady -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 2:22:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes I have thought this many times coming across various threads like this so now I will ask. Why do you care? Is it your photo that was stolen? If not then what difference does it make, it's just a picture. This is the internet and sometimes people lie, but who cares. It opens the site up to legal issues when members use photos or artwork that don't belong to them. If that were the case, they wouldn't leave it up to members to report.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 2:23:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Does it not say that you must be the owner of, or have permission to use, any images you upload to the site?? Again, who are YOU to say they are not the copy right holders or do not have permission to use the pictures? Why should they have to proof shit to YOU. You aren't the copy right holder. So according to YOU simply because some random person such as yourself reports that a picture or pictures are a violation of a copy right those pictures should be removed. What penalties should YOU receive if / when you are wrong? Again, IF you are so concerned about upholding other people's copy rights contact the sites or copy right holder and link them. Let THEM handle it the legal way. The DMCA take down rules are there for a reason. It's not a voluntary thing, it's a legal thing.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 2:44:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Does it not say that you must be the owner of, or have permission to use, any images you upload to the site?? Again, who are YOU to say they are not the copy right holders or do not have permission to use the pictures? Why should they have to proof shit to YOU. You aren't the copy right holder. So according to YOU simply because some random person such as yourself reports that a picture or pictures are a violation of a copy right those pictures should be removed. What penalties should YOU receive if / when you are wrong? Again, IF you are so concerned about upholding other people's copy rights contact the sites or copy right holder and link them. Let THEM handle it the legal way. The DMCA take down rules are there for a reason. It's not a voluntary thing, it's a legal thing. That's just ducking the issue of the person doing the uploading in the first place, not folloowing the rules and not taking responsibility of their actions and leaving to the likes of you or someone else to prove that they shouldn't have uploaded it. I'm not saying they need to prove shit to me personally. But surely they should prove it to the site owners?? And as LL pointed out, why do they have a tool for site members to report such infringements? Non-members cannot use the tool provided by the site. Proof of burden is on the uploader, not the reporter. There is a separate button to report specific DMCA violations.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 2:53:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 That's just ducking the issue of the person doing the uploading in the first place, not folloowing the rules and not taking responsibility of their actions and leaving to the likes of you or someone else to prove that they shouldn't have uploaded it. I'm not saying they need to prove shit to me personally. But surely they should prove it to the site owners?? And as LL pointed out, why do they have a tool for site members to report such infringements? Non-members cannot use the tool provided by the site. Proof of burden is on the uploader, not the reporter. There is a separate button to report specific DMCA violations. So by your standards, YOU or anyone can make false claims that someone doesn't have a right to post a picture or video and it should be automatically removed until they proof otherwise. Again, if YOU make a claim that a picture is stolen and you are wrong. What actions should be taken against YOU? I know you are speaking about pictures on CM but by your standards, that should / could apply to any site. What if that false claim costs someone a real financial loss? Again, how do YOU know who has a legal right to use the pictures? The reason the copy right holder or owner is required to file a DMCA and proof it's theirs is to stop false BS and protect everyone involved from the one posting the photo, copy right holder, and the site removing it. Why should YOU be able to circumvent that process? You keep saying that it's not a DMCA issue, but THAT is what the DMCA is. The DMCA is used for removing picture(s) and or videos that are posted in violation of copy right.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 2:58:45 PM)
I am only refering to CM and it's specific ToS and its reporting features. I'm not talking about any other site. And yes, if the uploader is following the rules correctly, if any of their uploads is questioned by any member of the site they should prove that they have the legal rights to post that image on the CM website. That is, after all, why they have included such a tool for use by the members AS WELL AS the distinctly separate DMCA button. ETA: It's not MY standards.... it's the standards set by CM itself.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 3:01:36 PM)
Again, what you are doing is trying to enforce copy rights that aren't yours to enforce. It is ONLY a TOS violation if the person doesn't have a right to use the pictures. How do YOU know they don't? Again, IF you falsely report that someone doesn't have a right to post or use a picture and it's proven that they do in-fact. What should happen to you? Again, IF you truly want to help site owners and copy right holders. Why not contact THEM and link them to the pictures so they can properly remove them?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 3:18:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw Again, what you are doing is trying to enforce copy rights that aren't yours to enforce. It is ONLY a TOS violation if the person doesn't have a right to use the pictures. How do YOU know they don't? Again, IF you falsely report that someone doesn't have a right to post or use a picture and it's proven that they do in-fact. What should happen to you? Again, IF you truly want to help site owners and copy right holders. Why not contact THEM and link them to the pictures so they can properly remove them? And what if you don't know the copyright owner to tell them that someone is illegally using their images?? And you are expecting every single person wanting to report a suspect image to go through all that every single time??? Get real!! If it is suspect, then the site owners need to verify that it's kosher and legal just to protect their own asses. In that regard, they need to question the uploader who is potentially putting their site at risk. And they do that by providing the tools for members to raise those questions for further investigation. You are acting as if you own the site. Some of us actually care about keeping it legal and above board and pleasant for all to use. If the owners don't give a shit, then why should anyone ever bother using the tools they provide? I'm not trying to enforce it - I'm asking the site staff to check and make sure they are within the law. In any case, it's still not right, or ethical, to shoot the messenger rather than investigate the root of the message.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 3:38:53 PM)
(not quoting just answering your questions which you seem unable to do) And what if you don't know the copyright owner to tell them that someone is illegally using their images?? If you don't know the copy right owner or site that you believe owns it then how do you know it's stolen? And you are expecting every single person wanting to report a suspect image to go through all that every single time??? You are expecting people who you accuse of stealing pictures to have to jump through hoops dontcha? If it is suspect, then the site owners need to verify that it's kosher and legal just to protect their own asses. In that regard, they need to question the uploader who is potentially putting their site at risk. And they do that by providing the tools for members to raise those questions for further investigation. Actually, people who make false accusations are putting the site at risk IMO. You are acting as if you own the site. Some of us actually care about keeping it legal and above board and pleasant for all to use. If the owners don't give a shit, then why should anyone ever bother using the tools they provide? No, I am acting like someone who knows about DMCA take downs and someone who respects why those regulations are there. I am acting like someone who doesn't want to see someone misuse or abuse it. I am all for enforcing copy rights, but stomping on other's people's rights isn't the way to do that. I'm not trying to enforce it - I'm asking the site staff to check and make sure they are within the law. You stated to REMOVE it until it's proved that they have a right to post it. THAT is enforcing it. Perhaps, you will answer this time. If someone like you reports a picture is stolen and it's proven that it's not. What should happen to you?

TheLilSquaw -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 4:51:27 PM)
FreedomeDwarf, Btw... when you go to report a photo on the other side it says "Note: This page cannot be used to report stolen photos or DMCA violations. For those issues click here " Which takes you the DMCA Information and requirements. Which include this statement: How do I report photos on behalf of someone else? You cannot report photos on behalf of another person. Please direct the person you are concerned about to this page. So unless I am missing something the report photo button is NOT meant to be used to report stolen pictures or DMCA issues.

Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 5:15:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes I have thought this many times coming across various threads like this so now I will ask. Why do you care? Is it your photo that was stolen? If not then what difference does it make, it's just a picture. This is the internet and sometimes people lie, but who cares. It opens the site up to legal issues when members use photos or artwork that don't belong to them. Oh ok, that makes sense.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 6:01:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw FreedomeDwarf, Btw... when you go to report a photo on the other side it says "Note: This page cannot be used to report stolen photos or DMCA violations. For those issues click here " Which takes you the DMCA Information and requirements. Which include this statement: How do I report photos on behalf of someone else? You cannot report photos on behalf of another person. Please direct the person you are concerned about to this page. So unless I am missing something the report photo button is NOT meant to be used to report stolen pictures or DMCA issues. And that sort-of backs up my point. I cannot report something on behalf of another person. I am in no way concerned about 'the other person'; I am concerned about a member being in breach of site rules. The DMCA section also states "This page provides information for persons who have become aware of photos of themselves posted to this website by another person without their consent" So.... I would use the DMCA violations button to report someone if I think they have stolen one of MY images and can also prove it - in a court of law if necessary. The only other option is "Done" which I assume is for "Everything Else". That, to me, also includes anything and everything that would, or could, bring the site or its owners into disrepute. So the "Done" button is the correct and proper way to alert the mods and/or site owners that another member is potentially putting the site at risk and needs further investigation and clarification. If I am wrong, and I openly admit that I could be, can you show me where, anywhere, in either the ToS or the site help, that states that the Report Photo button has a different use than I said?? Quote me verbatim, chapter and verse, where, in those two references, that proves me wrong. If you can do that, I will most humbly apologise and shut up. If you can't, I assume I am right and you are just spouting specific DMCA legaleeze.

Darkfeather -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 6:38:45 PM)
Oh good lord, is this conversation still going on? Have you actually read the ToS? I suppose you are in a roundabout way referring to this part: 7.3.5. Posting content or information that infringes upon any trademark, copyright, or other intellectual property rights of any party; But if you bother to read farther down, you will come to this passage: 9.4.1. By uploading any photographs of Yourself, You hereby swear that You own or control all intellectual property rights with respect to the uploaded photographs; The operative part of that passage being own or control. Now who determines ownership or control? Obviously, the owner. So no matter how many people THINK an image violates something, only the owner KNOWS. Now, lets examine the system for seeing if said image is in violation, shall we. What is better, 50 emails to this website saying "oh, I think so and so pic is violated, check it". So they spend the next 6 months feverishly back checking every image posted on this site... Or, doing the leg work yourself, using google reverse image for christ-sake, and contact the copyright holder (if it is in violation in the first place). That way this site only gets, gee, one email. Or is that too simple a logic?

littlewonder -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 6:48:48 PM)
I used to have people report my photo all the time saying it wasn't mine lol. It was never once removed though by the mods. I think they knew it was mine. I even had someone saying that it belonged to some artist in Canada who had it hanging in an art gallery. hahaha. I told him he may want to have either his eyes or head examined. A week later he came back apologizing saying he was mistaken. I thought that was hilarious.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: reporting things (5/27/2013 7:09:09 PM)
Thank you Dark Feather. lw that is funny!

descrite -> RE: reporting things (5/28/2013 3:00:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder ignore, delete and stop thinking you need to rescue people from scammers. People are responsible for their own stupidity. What changed your mind since January? quote: yeah Pam, when it comes to someone being a pedo, I'm gonna call a pedo a pedo and not rely on the authorities to come along and take care of it. It's no different than in real life. If someone around me comes out as a pedo, I'm gonna take care of it first before I call the authorities because that's just how much of a sick fuck they are. http://www.collarchat.com/m_4334039/mpage_21/tm.htm

descrite -> RE: reporting things (5/28/2013 3:26:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Does it not say that you must be the owner of, or have permission to use, any images you upload to the site?? So surely that puts the onus squarely on the shoulders of the uploaders to prove that they are legally allowed to upload the image?? Anything in question should be taken down first and then let the uploaders show proof that they are legally entitled to upload it. And don't say it can't be done with the current staffing levels because it is done on many sites including some that are owned and run by just two (yes, 2) people. I thinks it's just a cop-out. Dude. I have to know. Did you draw that alligator?

NuevaVida -> RE: reporting things (5/28/2013 3:35:02 AM)
Freedomdwarf I think they said "capricious use of the system" to you because you were spending days at a time, browsing profiles and reporting them, totally overwhelming the mods ability to mod other stuff. I can't find the thread from my iPhone right now, but I recall the argument and it being explained to you.

angelikaJ -> RE: reporting things (5/28/2013 3:50:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: descrite quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder ignore, delete and stop thinking you need to rescue people from scammers. People are responsible for their own stupidity. What changed your mind since January? quote: yeah Pam, when it comes to someone being a pedo, I'm gonna call a pedo a pedo and not rely on the authorities to come along and take care of it. It's no different than in real life. If someone around me comes out as a pedo, I'm gonna take care of it first before I call the authorities because that's just how much of a sick fuck they are. http://www.collarchat.com/m_4334039/mpage_21/tm.htm Pedophilia is a world away from scammers.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: reporting things (5/28/2013 3:59:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Freedomdwarf I think they said "capricious use of the system" to you because you were spending days at a time, browsing profiles and reporting them, totally overwhelming the mods ability to mod other stuff. I can't find the thread from my iPhone right now, but I recall the argument and it being explained to you. I spent two hours an afternoon for two days doing the reporting. It wasn't days at a time. I was just browsing photos using the 'Browse Photos' button and in no particular hurry. The moment I received the gold letter, I stopped. If they think it is capricious use of the system then it should have a built-in limitation or a note somewhere that it shouldn't be used for X number of reports per day. I just followed what the system is in place for. It's not my fault that they have something that they can't cope with. And I don't believe it was 'totally overwhelming the mods' either. Just one person could have dealt with my postings very easily and much faster than I posted them. Sorry, that's just another cop-out.

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