RE: Got a connection? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Got a connection?


I served/am serving
  30% (18)
I have immediate family who recently served/are serving
  40% (24)
I know people with family in the military
  21% (13)
Nobody in my family since Vietnam
  0% (0)
Nobody in my family since World War II
  3% (2)
That's for people who aren't like me
  5% (3)


Total Votes : 60
(last vote on : 6/1/2013 9:45:29 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

jlf1961 -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 8:49:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
What about those people that do not want to be in the position of having to kill someone



Then they would perform their national service is some other, non-military capacity, TJ. Reading what I wrote might have helped with puzzling that out.

To answer my question myself, I served at the end of the cold war and another unpleasant bit after that, and two of my brothers have done middle east tours, along with several cousins. Dad had a safe lottery number, and was never called for Vietnam, while my stepfather got his letter, reported to the draft board, and was determined to be politically undesireable.



A lot of conscientious objectors became medics, which meant they didnt have to kill anyone... however, unfortunately that red cross on their helmet was a target for those individuals who did not think that noncombatant medics should not be shot at. In fact, quite often they were the targets of snipers in various conflicts we have been in.



TheHeretic -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 8:55:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I don't know, Rich. I've always thought the OP should be able to change the parameters to some degree.






It would be a really significant derail, Michael. I sketched the idea out a bit in this old thread, and you'll find the meat of what I'm talking about on this thread in the last post on page 5 of that one.



tj444 -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:02:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
What about those people that do not want to be in the position of having to kill someone


Then they would perform their national service is some other, non-military capacity, TJ. Reading what I wrote might have helped with puzzling that out.

I guess the problem with that is that you would have to trust those in charge would allow you to perform some other service.. which is an iffy proposition, if you ask me.. especially if you were one of the poor, uneducated ones that didnt have the "right" connections..



DaddySatyr -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:03:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I don't know, Rich. I've always thought the OP should be able to change the parameters to some degree.



It would be a really significant derail, Michael. I sketched the idea out a bit in this old thread, and you'll find the meat of what I'm talking about on this thread in the last post on page 5 of that one.



If ever a thread deserved to be resurrected (yes! That's a hint)...



Peace and comfort,



Michael



TheHeretic -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:15:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

If ever a thread deserved to be resurrected (yes! That's a hint)...






I suppose I could always copy/paste, if a decent discussion of mandatory national service were to come up. [;)]



thishereboi -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:18:14 PM)

Most of my family have served at one point or another. My nephew just got out of the reserves and my niece is currently in the navy.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:18:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

If ever a thread deserved to be resurrected (yes! That's a hint)...




I suppose I could always copy/paste, if a decent discussion of mandatory national service were to come up. [;)]


Once again; we don't exactly agree but I think the discussion would be lively. No?



littlewonder -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:23:23 PM)

my deceased husband was active duty at the time of his death. I was there from the day he joined until the end.
My brother is retired from the military and now works for the military.
My nephew just retired from the military and still works for them.
My niece just graduated from college and will be leaving for the military this summer.
As a military widow, I still try to stay a part of the military and help out where and when I can.



TheHeretic -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:26:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Once again; we don't exactly agree but I think the discussion would be lively. No?


More importantly, I bet the conversation could happen without either of us needing to call the other a heartless monster, or a Stalinist. [8|]

Mondays are worse, when they fall on Tuesdays, so I'm calling it a night shortly, but if somebody built it, I would get there when I could.



thishereboi -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:29:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

There are 364 days of the year including Veterans Day, to 'thank anyone who ever served'.

There is only one day set aside to show a shred of human decency by *remembering* those who won't be able to 'thank a vet' or anyone else, because they gave the price of doing war at its extreme.... dying.

Refusing to grant them that distinction for one even day, honors no one.

Exactly. While appreciate the folks who thank me and other vets today I'd much prefer they put a flower on an untended veteran's grave site. I came home and my service is commemorated on the 11th day of the 11th month.


When we first started going out to the cemetery to plant flags we always brought 3 flags with us. When we got there, there were people at the gate handing out flags. The first year we just told them we didn't need any more, but then we noticed a lot of plots of service men with no flags. Now we take the ones offered at the gate and put them on the sites that look ignored.



LizDeluxe -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:30:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Looking at the poll results, I'm wondering why it is that those with no personal connection whatsoever to voluntary military service aren't willing to have themselves counted.


It could be that most people who have voted in the poll have a connection of some sort. It could be as simple as the confusing thread title. A better title might have entertained more participation.




littlewonder -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:31:55 PM)

The VA puts flags on every military grave where my husband is buried. They do it for every single holiday.



thishereboi -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 9:39:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

The VA puts flags on every military grave where my husband is buried. They do it for every single holiday.


thats a good idea



DomKen -> RE: Got a connection? (5/27/2013 10:03:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

The VA puts flags on every military grave where my husband is buried. They do it for every single holiday.

That is standard in the national cemetaries AIUI. However there are a lot of veterans buried in other cemetaries and the maintenance and care of those grave sites vary. Until I got sick I always spent Memorial Day cleaning up graves not being cared for properly.



TricklessMagic -> RE: Got a connection? (5/28/2013 7:20:13 AM)

I briefly considered the JAG core out of law school but it wasn't for me. Not enough money and not enough credentials for after service to make it worth my while. I had a Marine interviewer come out to my house in my senior year of high school but I had to explain I had an academic scholarship and I wasn't interested in joining. A buddy of mine went into the marines, lost a leg from just above the knee, is in college to become a therapist (bachelor's then masters). I've met others who are so messed up mentally they can't really do anything but are declared competent and can't get hardly any help. Then you have the guys who end up with messed up backs and knees while in basic or other training and can't get any aid for their injuries.

Yeah my props to those who go in. But me, I'll do my thing and tell my kids not to go. I'll work hard so my kids don't have to go into the military and can have the choice if they want to go. If they don't go I'll pay their way through a bachelors, if they go then I'll be waiting for them when they get back to get their lives started.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Got a connection? (5/28/2013 8:21:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So I'm reading the New York Times' Memorial Day preach piece, and it contained the sobering statistic that a mere 0.5% of the US population joins the military.

In light of another thread, I'm wondering how many here have any connection at all to the modern military. Multiple selections are available.

It appears that whoever wrote that article can't add and subtract.
As of 31 January 2013, the US military had an active duty strength of 1.43 Million and 0.85 Million reservists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces

There are 21.5 Million Military veterans in the US as of 2011.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/veteranscensus1.html

The US population as of 2012 is estimated at 314 Million.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&q=Us+population&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ACEW_enUS359US361

Of that population, 23.7% are under 18 years old and not eligible for military service.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Let's do some math. 76.3% of 314 Million = 239,582,000 people 18 and over who are eligible to be in or have served in the military.

22,350,000 people alive in the US either are or have been in the military.

22,350,000 / 239,582,000 = .0933 or just a bit over 9.3% of the US eligible population who is serving or has served.

Who wrote this article and why can't he do 6th grade math?



jlf1961 -> RE: Got a connection? (5/28/2013 10:11:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic



Yeah my props to those who go in. But me, I'll do my thing and tell my kids not to go. I'll work hard so my kids don't have to go into the military and can have the choice if they want to go. If they don't go I'll pay their way through a bachelors, if they go then I'll be waiting for them when they get back to get their lives started.



I am not criticizing, but I am curious about this statement.

I have heard many parents say similar things, and I never really understood what they were driving at. It seemed they were minimizing the military to something akin to bumming around Europe with a backpack or something. Seriously, joining the military takes a lot of thought, and commitment.

Most vets, my self included, feel that we started our adult lives when we took the oath. For those that made the military their career, they made it their entire life.

I got out after four years based on a bad decision, and wish to god I hadn't. Actually, I wish I had gone back in after I finished my Bachelors, but I didnt. Instead I spent a lot of years changing careers every five or ten years, never really finding what I had in the army. The closest I found was when I worked private security at the Savanna River Nuclear facility and at some Dept. of Defense installations that were not "officially" military, no uniforms, lots of suits and requiring a top secret or higher clearance to work there.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: Got a connection? (5/28/2013 3:33:03 PM)

If we are talking about the number of people currently serving, then yes, I believe it is less than 1% of the overall population. This seems to be in line with historical rates (leaving aside Vietnam era numbers). Others have asked, but I will also ask. Just how many people need to be serving? At that percentage there are more people serving in the military than we have licensed doctors in the U.S.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/03/137536111/by-the-numbers-todays-military




Zonie63 -> RE: Got a connection? (5/28/2013 5:55:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So I'm reading the New York Times' Memorial Day preach piece, and it contained the sobering statistic that a mere 0.5% of the US population joins the military.

In light of another thread, I'm wondering how many here have any connection at all to the modern military. Multiple selections are available.


My niece is currently serving in the Air Force.

I tried to join the Navy, but they turned me down. I later applied for a job with the National Security Agency, but they turned me down as well. At least I can say with a clear conscience that I offered to serve my country, but my country didn't want me.

My brother was in the Marines briefly, but got out on a medical discharge when he developed hemorrhoids during boot camp. For him, it seems that being in the Marines was literally a pain in the ass. [;)]

My father wanted to attend the Naval Academy, but he didn't have enough political pull, so he opted for the Coast Guard Academy instead. My mother never served; she was extremely anti-military and anti-war.

My maternal grandfather was in the Army briefly in the early 1930s, but hated it so much that he bought out. He was married with two daughters by the time of the U.S. entry into WW2.

I had a couple of uncles in World War II. One was in the Marines who served in the Pacific (I know he was in the Battle of Tarawa, but I don't remember which other battles he was in). Another uncle was in the Army under Patton and fought in the Battle of the Bulge.

My paternal grandfather was in the Army during WW1, although he didn't go to Europe. He was stationed along the Rio Grande somewhere (Laredo, I think). I also had a great-great-great grandfather who fought for the Union in the Civil War, as well as a great-great-great-great uncle who fought for the Confederacy (there were probably others in my family tree, but those are the two I know about for sure). I also had at least one ancestor in the American Revolution (who, I'm told, gave his canteen to George Washington, although that's probably just family legend). My grandmother was in the DAR, so I think that I'm qualified to join the SAR, but never did.



TheHeretic -> RE: Got a connection? (5/28/2013 7:53:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Who wrote this article and why can't he do 6th grade math?



Here's a link to the article, Hill, and while they may have calculated their statistic along different parameters than you did, looking at the bios on the authors, I'm going to give the benefit of any doubt to them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/opinion/americans-and-their-military-drifting-apart.html?_r=0



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