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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/2/2013 9:46:50 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		What Des said too!

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/2/2013 10:17:36 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I had a shrink tell me one day that anger is a mask for fear, and after a bit of reflection , I agreed with him.

Usually when i get angry, its because i am made to feel marginalised in some respect - that my point of view is being ............ ignored.

Perhaps you can find a common element for when your sub flares up. It may not be immediately obvious, but there may be a link for all the events. You don't need to do or agree with your sub, but she needs to know that what is important to her is understood, and not negated.

I feel like i'm not expressing myself very well, but what i am trying to say, is that anytime i have become very angry with my partner, it was usually because he was ignoring my point of view, and trying to impose his world view on me, without regard to what i felt or thought.

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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/4/2013 3:14:27 AM   
lesbama65


Posts: 9
Joined: 1/3/2013
Status: offline 		SimplyMichael, thank you for your wisdom. I won't go into detail here, but her father and grandfather let her down and hurt her. I see the wisdom in what you say. We have good communication skills thankfully, so I agree talking is better than punishing whenever possible.

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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/4/2013 3:15:33 AM   
lesbama65


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Joined: 1/3/2013
Status: offline 		kiwisub, thank you as well. I understand what you are saying.

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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/5/2013 8:16:38 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		AA uses the term HALT: hungry, angry, lonely, tired. If hungry, food. If angry, talk about why. If lonely, hug her. If tired, send her to bed for a half hour. Also make sure she's not dehydrated.

I take thyroid meds and can't eat for an hour after. He tends to eat early and not stop for lunch till late. So I wound up skipping breakfast and not eating anything till 3 or 4. This did not make me a happy camper. Instead of punishing, he just asked me why I was so bitchy. Every single time I would then check in with what was going on with me and discovered my blood sugar had tanked. No energy because no food. Headache because no food. Irritable because no food.

He then rescheduled the start of the day for an hour after I would wake up and he tries to get me to take the meds first before going to the bathroom and other stuff. If necessary, he tells me we're starting early and bring the meds to take two hours after breakfast.

Punishment would not help me not be hungry, tired and angry all as a result of not eating since 7 the previous night. It would engender resentment that would have ended the relationship a long time ago.

_____________________________

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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/5/2013 8:26:31 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
It seems like in a situation like this saying 'don't lose your temper' and 'watch your mouth' won't be productive, since this is obviously a part of her personality and how she deals with conflict.

That comment sparked a thought in my head. One thing you might try is simply refusing to deal with her on that basis, eg: "Go to your room. Stay there quietly. Come out and speak to me again when you can do so civilly and then I'll be happy restart this conversation AND try to see where we got it wrong."

Note that on one hand I'm refusing to accept the hissy fit. On the other hand I'm acknowledging that I've done something to piss her off and together WE have done something wrong. But you'd need to make it explicit somehow that when she comes out of the room again she's going to be dealing with a PARTNER not an adversary and you accept as her partner that whatever is going on here you have some role in it.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/5/2013 8:29:19 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
AA uses the term HALT: hungry, angry, lonely, tired. If hungry, food. If angry, talk about why. If lonely, hug her. If tired, send her to bed for a half hour. Also make sure she's not dehydrated.

Happens to be excellent advice for preventing sub drop, too.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/5/2013 8:40:41 AM   
MasterSadric


Posts: 25
Joined: 8/19/2008
Status: offline 		You've gotten plenty of good advice, so I don't have much to add.

What I tend to do when greeted with inappropriate behavior is I lower my voice. I simply do not feed into it.
Anger is fine, one can get angry at me as often as they please. It is the behavior I correct, and try to channel it into more useful outputs.
If I were dealing with a sub with a potty mouth, I would sit her down and have her write her feelings down without using profanity.
Sometimes, I would just stand there and tell her to repeat her feelings without profanity, and at the end ask for an apology for the rudeness.
The key is correcting the behavior without invalidating the feelings.

Those feelings DO need to come out and be expressed, make no mistake about that, otherwise you end up with someone eventually exploding, or just a disintegration of the relationship.

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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/5/2013 10:10:11 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
It seems like in a situation like this saying 'don't lose your temper' and 'watch your mouth' won't be productive, since this is obviously a part of her personality and how she deals with conflict.

That comment sparked a thought in my head. One thing you might try is simply refusing to deal with her on that basis, eg: "Go to your room. Stay there quietly. Come out and speak to me again when you can do so civilly and then I'll be happy restart this conversation AND try to see where we got it wrong."

Note that on one hand I'm refusing to accept the hissy fit. On the other hand I'm acknowledging that I've done something to piss her off and together WE have done something wrong. But you'd need to make it explicit somehow that when she comes out of the room again she's going to be dealing with a PARTNER not an adversary and you accept as her partner that whatever is going on here you have some role in it.


This is really good advice. It made me think of one of my go-to phrases with children, 'I can't understand you when you are whining like that. When you can use your calm voice we'll be able to talk about that'.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: New to this..need advice - 6/5/2013 12:07:17 PM   
JeffBC


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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSadric
What I tend to do when greeted with inappropriate behavior is I lower my voice. I simply do not feed into it.

Also excellent advice. The rule in my house is whoever gets angry first gets to be angry and the other one has to be mature. That works for us because neither of is the type to manipulate a rule like that and because honestly, when both people are out of control at the same time then there's a serious problem.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to MasterSadric)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: New to this..need advice - 6/5/2013 10:41:49 PM   
lesbama65


Posts: 9
Joined: 1/3/2013
Status: offline 		Thank you all for such wonderful advice and responses! Much appreciated.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: New to this..need advice - 6/6/2013 8:35:32 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		When we were having a fight one time, we decided to table it till morning and instead just go to bed and hug each other. If we fell asleep fine, if not also fine. But having that skin to skin contact helped us both calm down.

And the next morning, when we could talk calmer we discovered we were actually talking at cross purposes. That there was no reason for a fight, we simply had misunderstood what each other meant.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to lesbama65)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: New to this..need advice - 6/6/2013 11:14:32 AM   
lesbama65


Posts: 9
Joined: 1/3/2013
Status: offline 		Yeah that can happen if we really don't pay attention to what the other is saying.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: New to this..need advice - 6/6/2013 3:38:30 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Or if you're so upset about the issue that you can't explain what you mean. This was partly that we couldn't listen and partly that we couldn't explain it. Either way, when solved, there was no need for punishment.

Like most stuff, this is not a bdsm issue, it's a relationship issue.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 6/6/2013 3:39:17 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to lesbama65)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: New to this..need advice - 6/6/2013 5:37:29 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lesbama65
Yeah that can happen if we really don't pay attention to what the other is saying.

... or.... you wake up after a nice night of snuggling and wonder what on God's green earth made the whole issue even remotely important to start with? That happens to me fairly regularly. There's a lot of wisdom in "sleep on it."

Honestly though I'm glad Carol and I seldom fight and when we do it's pretty much always about giving the OTHER person what they want. When we do fight it is seldom anger that is generated but rather sadness and distress. Neither of us tolerates "a disruption in the force" very well.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to lesbama65)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: New to this..need advice - 6/6/2013 5:54:31 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Here in this house, if we get upset with each other we tend to back off and go our separate ways for a bit to think and calm down. After a little time has passed we both have had enough time to speak rationally to each other and it has always worked for us. It ends up that it ends up being rather silly or just not as big a deal as we both made it out to be or there was just a miscommunication.

So my advice is always give each other space and time to cool off.


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Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: New to this..need advice - 7/20/2013 7:48:08 AM   
hrxxx


Posts: 294
Joined: 5/13/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lesbama65

My girlfriend and I are relatively new to the bdsm lifestyle, although she is slightly more experienced than I. I need some advice on training her to be the sub I want her to be. She is very naturally inclined to submissiveness, but at times her "Irish" spark flares up. Any advice, specific OR general?


I recommend you to read a little psychology, especially about stockholm syndrome. I call stockholm syndrome for slave love, this is achieved with a mixture of hard abuse and kindness.

So train your slave with hard torture (the CIA and KGB "No Touch" torture is good) with hard and constant sexual abuse, and only a few hours of kindness a day, and after a few weeks, you should have achieved slave love, it means that your slave loves a bit like a dog loves his owner, and you just love your slave like a dog

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I have to realize that against stupidity even the gods struggle in vain.

I do not care about your comment! Because I think so little of you!

(in reply to lesbama65)
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RE: New to this..need advice - 7/20/2013 8:52:53 AM   
Kana


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Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

AA uses the term HALT: hungry, angry, lonely, tired

Dunno about anyone else, but if I'm hungry and tired, odds are that I'm gonna be a bit angry,which is going to lead to being lonely.

Now for me, and this is only me, anger is a secondary emotion. It originates from a primary source emotion, hurt or fear

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: New to this..need advice - 7/20/2013 9:33:56 AM   
SwitchNSpanky


Posts: 418
Joined: 5/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Here is where fantasy meets reality.

She is going to resent you for your failure to "control" her shitty behavior.

You are going to resent her failure to "truly" submit.

Punishment will fail...

The ONLY way to make this work is to see all this as an "US" problem not a "YOU" problem. In other words, work together to create a better relationship, dont see fault, which requires blame, which makes people defensive, which stops them learning.

When she goes irish on you, ask her why. See her side, understand it
and talk about it. Make her feel heard, understand it is in her nature. Reward her when she controls herself express mild dissapointment when she cant. Over the top punishment is counterproductive. Remove your mastery but not your love when she is out of hand. Mastery is a reward but love in.most cases must be cinstant.

Study her relationship with her parents and especially her father. Where he failed, you must excel, where he did well, you must copy.







Great post. I second this.

_____________________________

I am a lover AND a fighter...

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 39
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