RE: Health Care, the American way...

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tj444 -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/30/2013 9:45:43 PM)
China bought a US bank a year ago & expanded 2 other Chinese banks into the US also, they had to get govt approval to be able to do that and they got it, no problemo..

tazzygirl -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/30/2013 10:36:37 PM)
And yet when the wind issue came up, werent they denied? The Obama administration announced Friday that it would block an attempt by a Chinese-owned company to acquire four wind farm companies in the United States. http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/energy-environment/259245-obama-blocks-chinese-investment-in-us-wind-farms#ixzz2UqUDMAvN Now, the situation was slightly different in that the farms were located near a military base. I just think when people complain about the "Chinese" buying up the US, they dont look at it from the same point of view I do. We do it to them, why cant they do it to us?

tj444 -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/31/2013 9:08:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I just think when people complain about the "Chinese" buying up the US, they dont look at it from the same point of view I do. We do it to them, why cant they do it to us? You do what to them, exactly? I dont have a whole lot of knowledge about how the Chinese do things in their country but.. from what i understand, there are considerable restrictions on non-Chinese ownership of businesses, banks, etc and even transfer of funds out of China (by anyone).. As I understand it, if you go to China to start a business there, you need a Chinese partner or its no go.. If that is true then any non-Chinese are at an extreme disadvantage, imo.. I expect that is why Apple doesnt have its own factory there, they have to subcontract to Fox in China.. So are non-Chinese allowed to buy or expand banks into China? If they are not, then wtf would the US govt let em do that here? (shrugs) Just think, the next time the banks are bailed out, you will be helping China banks too.. [&:] Oh,.. and does that mean that the US should be massively hacking the Chinese as they are doing to the US??? I heard one estimate that all that chinese hacking of US govt & business computers costs the US economy something like 300million/year.. opps, make that 300 BILLION/yr.. how many American jobs would that be??? if memory serves, i think i read that was about 1.2million US jobs lost (?).. The Chinese arent exactly playing by the same rules that western countries do, are they? http://news.yahoo.com/china-winning-cyber-war-because-hacked-u-plans-130017975.html

tazzygirl -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/31/2013 9:55:07 AM)
quote: You do what to them, exactly? I dont have a whole lot of knowledge about how the Chinese do things in their country but.. from what i understand, there are considerable restrictions on non-Chinese ownership of businesses, banks, etc and even transfer of funds out of China (by anyone).. As I understand it, if you go to China to start a business there, you need a Chinese partner or its no go.. If that is true then any non-Chinese are at an extreme disadvantage, imo.. I expect that is why Apple doesnt have its own factory there, they have to subcontract to Fox in China.. So are non-Chinese allowed to buy or expand banks into China? If they are not, then wtf would the US govt let em do that here? (shrugs) Just think, the next time the banks are bailed out, you will be helping China banks too.. http://www.state.gov/e/eb/rls/othr/ics/2012/191128.htm Where there is a will, there is a way. As far as the bail out of banks... lol.. Im the wrong one to bark at about that. I was against it from the very beginning, though I do understand why it was done. quote: Oh,.. and does that mean that the US should be massively hacking the Chinese as they are doing to the US??? I heard one estimate that all that chinese hacking of US govt & business computers costs the US economy something like 300million/year.. opps, make that 300 BILLION/yr.. how many American jobs would that be??? if memory serves, i think i read that was about 1.2million US jobs lost (?).. The Chinese arent exactly playing by the same rules that western countries do, are they? Nope, they have a different set of rules... and we play that game as well. American & International Corporations In China- NOTATION- even though this is a very long list of American and other foreign corporations in China, it is certainly not a complete listing. We have only included a few of the names you may recognize. This is a list of companies who either own factories, or have contract factories producing their products in China. Some of the companies produce 100% of their products there, and others only produce parts, or certain ingredients for their products. The list below is approximately 1% of the actual Corporate list. Companies such as Avon, GE, and AT&T for example, have been in China and manufacturing products for 20 to 30 years. Most American consumers simply had no idea. Previously their source was Japan. At the bottom.... "This is not a list of American companies Exporting their products to China. This is a list of American companies who manufacture in China." http://www.jiesworld.com/international_corporations_in_china.htm And then the following.... The map above, of Chinese factories run by U.S. companies, shows the factories clustered in the eastern half of the country, with large concentrations south of Beijing and along the eastern coast, following the proximity to ports and official Chinese policy. The research was presented last week at the annual meeting of the American Association of Geographers. South hopes future research will take into consideration factors such as government policy and port availability to better understand why American factories end up where they do. http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/03/how-us-companies-decide-where-build-their-chinese-factories/1412/ In 1979, there were 100 foreign-owned enterprises in China. In 1998, there were 280,000. As of 2007, foreign companies employed 25 million people in China. U.S. companies with offices in Beijing include Google, Microsoft, FMC, Cigna, Unisys and General Electric. U.S. companies with major production facilities in Shanghai include Dupont, Rohm & Haas and General Electric. As of early 2010, Fortune 500 companies had 98 research and development facilities in China. Foreign companies doing business in China are generally required to form joint ventures with Chinese companies instead of forming wholly owned subsidiaries. Entrance by foreign companies to the Chinese market is often determined by how much technology and know-how the Chinese can get from the foreign company. Many Chinese worry that foreign companies are posed to take over entire sector of the economy. http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=349 As I said.. where there is a will, there is a way.

Zonie63 -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/31/2013 10:14:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 So are non-Chinese allowed to buy or expand banks into China? If they are not, then wtf would the US govt let em do that here? (shrugs) It seems that this has been going on for a while, not just with the Chinese. I remember during the 70s, it was the Arabs buying up America. Then in the 80s, it was the Japanese buying up America. Everybody is buying up America. Why would the U.S. government let them do it here while there is no reciprocating privilege for us to do the same in their countries? That's a good question. The globalists and free trade advocates have pushed for this vehemently, so it's not just a question of the government letting them do it, but certain misguided ideologues have actively and zealously demanded it. It does seem rather ironic that the same bunch who thumped their chests over "winning" the Cold War are the ones who made us into China's bitch.

tj444 -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/31/2013 12:59:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Foreign companies doing business in China are generally required to form joint ventures with Chinese companies instead of forming wholly owned subsidiaries. that is what i am talking about.. "joint venture" is the same to me as having to have a Chinese partner.. having a partner takes away your control, or too much of it, imo.. I dont have any problem if everyone it playing by the same rules but I was pointing out that they arent.. the US does not require any non-American to form a joint venture with a US company ..so I dont see it as "doing it to them" and being opposed to "them doing it to us".. and then there is that whole hacking thing.. if you have a country hacking your computers, how can you trust to be in business with them??? I wasnt "barking" about the bank bailouts to you specifically, it was a comment for all US taxpayers.. cuz ya'll still havent actually paid for the last bailout yet.. just sayin'... [;)]

tj444 -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/31/2013 1:14:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 It seems that this has been going on for a while, not just with the Chinese. I remember during the 70s, it was the Arabs buying up America. Then in the 80s, it was the Japanese buying up America. Everybody is buying up America. well,.. sure there have been waves of buyers but this is the Chinese govt that's buying, not private individuals/buyers who are usually wanting to make a profit and may sell off at some point in the future.... govts tend to have different motivations.. I think thats a big difference from those previous buying waves..

vincentML -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/31/2013 1:21:21 PM)
quote: In order for there to be a system that really works, everyone is going to have to give a little (at least initially); not just one portion - who in my mind are already pretty put-upon - while the lawyers, doctors, insurance agents - and yes, even - dead-beats continue to enjoy the fruits of that small (by comparison) group's sacrifices. Michael . . . some argue the "put upon group" is small because the AMA has established a monopoly through limiting entrance into medical schools.

tazzygirl -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/31/2013 1:42:04 PM)
quote: that is what i am talking about.. "joint venture" is the same to me as having to have a Chinese partner.. having a partner takes away your control, or too much of it, imo.. I dont have any problem if everyone it playing by the same rules but I was pointing out that they arent.. the US does not require any non-American to form a joint venture with a US company ..so I dont see it as "doing it to them" and being opposed to "them doing it to us".. and then there is that whole hacking thing.. if you have a country hacking your computers, how can you trust to be in business with them??? I wasnt "barking" about the bank bailouts to you specifically, it was a comment for all US taxpayers.. cuz ya'll still havent actually paid for the last bailout yet.. just sayin'... Naaa... they are simply paid front men. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/14/us/politics/sheldon-adelsons-dealings-in-china-are-under-investigation.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

tj444 -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/31/2013 5:56:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: that is what i am talking about.. "joint venture" is the same to me as having to have a Chinese partner.. having a partner takes away your control, or too much of it, imo.. I dont have any problem if everyone it playing by the same rules but I was pointing out that they arent.. the US does not require any non-American to form a joint venture with a US company ..so I dont see it as "doing it to them" and being opposed to "them doing it to us".. and then there is that whole hacking thing.. if you have a country hacking your computers, how can you trust to be in business with them??? I wasnt "barking" about the bank bailouts to you specifically, it was a comment for all US taxpayers.. cuz ya'll still havent actually paid for the last bailout yet.. just sayin'... Naaa... they are simply paid front men. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/14/us/politics/sheldon-adelsons-dealings-in-china-are-under-investigation.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 omg, what a soap opera!.. [:D]

tazzygirl -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (5/31/2013 8:09:06 PM)
lol.. I know right?

Zonie63 -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (6/3/2013 7:27:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 It seems that this has been going on for a while, not just with the Chinese. I remember during the 70s, it was the Arabs buying up America. Then in the 80s, it was the Japanese buying up America. Everybody is buying up America. well,.. sure there have been waves of buyers but this is the Chinese govt that's buying, not private individuals/buyers who are usually wanting to make a profit and may sell off at some point in the future.... govts tend to have different motivations.. I think thats a big difference from those previous buying waves.. Whether it's a government or private entity, the perception tends to be the same. I also think there's a symbiotic relationship between politics and big business that their motives tend to run parallel to each other. I guess the question remains: Why do we put up with this? Why do we allow it to continue? Or is this something we even need to be concerned with at all?

JeffBC -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (6/3/2013 9:45:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl They would rather believe the hype of malpractice insurance companies. It's a shell game thing. We have created this incredibly convoluted system which is massively inefficient and offers a million places to point fingers at. All the actors point at each other. Each contributes in their own way. This is why I believe it'll be hard to get to a single payer system in the US. The politicians will want to avoid it because it'll take so many of the hidey holes out of the picture. quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Where I live, above the zero tax point (ca. $15.000 per year per household), you have to pay taxes, and healthcare for all citizens is part of what that tax buys you, along with emergency healthcare for all non-citizen residents and welfare (this for citizens only). Where I lived in the states my insurance bill alone (medical, dental, optical) was about $1300/mo for a family of two. That bought me coverage IN THE STATE I BOUGHT IT IN. When we traveled to a different state.... Hawaii for instance... we ran into serious insurance complications.

tazzygirl -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (6/3/2013 11:15:44 AM)
quote: It's a shell game thing. We have created this incredibly convoluted system which is massively inefficient and offers a million places to point fingers at. All the actors point at each other. Each contributes in their own way. This is why I believe it'll be hard to get to a single payer system in the US. The politicians will want to avoid it because it'll take so many of the hidey holes out of the picture. It is hard, as we have seen. It will happen... just not right away.

JeffBC -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (6/3/2013 11:58:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl It is hard, as we have seen. It will happen... just not right away. Well, it is somewhat heartening to read your analysis that economic forces will force it despite the united will of both democrats and republicans. I'm a bit less sanguine about that but it's at least a path of hope.

graceadieu -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (6/4/2013 6:55:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Aside from that it doesn't address the fact that the lowest malpractice insurance numbers I could find were over $60,000 per year for $100,000 of coverage. I'm not a doctor, obviously but based upon some of the judgements I've seen, if I were a doctor, I think I'd carry a minimum of $1,000,000. $60k a year for $100k in coverage? Are you sure? At that point, there's no point in even having insurance, because you're spending $60k per year to maybe possibly save $40k every few years. You'd be better off just saving your money and hoping you don't get sued. FWIW, in my totally-not-medical field, we pay $4,000/year for $5 million liability, and pretty much everybody I know in this field has said that somebody's tried to sue them at some point over the years.

tazzygirl -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (6/4/2013 7:21:39 AM)
He is exaggerating... as usual. Those who pay that kind of money are OBGYNs and Thoracic Surgeons. http://www.legalinfo-online.com/the-cost-of-medical-malpractice-insurance-in-different-states/

graceadieu -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (6/4/2013 7:44:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl He is exaggerating... as usual. Those who pay that kind of money are OBGYNs and Thoracic Surgeons. http://www.legalinfo-online.com/the-cost-of-medical-malpractice-insurance-in-different-states/ The article doesn't say how much coverage they're buying with those prices, though. He was saying it was $100,000, which wouldn't do shit if you got sued, and is an unreasonably low amount for somebody engaged in a business likely to get sued. If medical practices are paying $10k - or even $60k - for $10 million in liability, that would make a lot more sense.

tazzygirl -> RE: Health Care, the American way... (6/4/2013 8:01:57 AM)
Each state is different. Here is an example for NY.... Standard medical malpractice premium rates paid by physicians in New York state vary significantly by medical practice and geographical location. For example, the premium rate for a neurosurgeon practicing on Long Island is $315,524, while the rate for an allergist in Rochester is $1,910 (data not shown). The state is divided into seven malpractice rating territories. A sample of premium rates for three types of physician practices is displayed above to illustrate the significant variations by practice and geographical location, reflecting the underlying aggregate claims experience. Physicians and hospitals that employ physicians are often able to qualify for discounts on the standard rates. Standard rates typically reflect what are called occurrence policies that provide liability coverage for services rendered during a policy period, regardless of when the claim is reported. The typical limits of liability are $1.3 million for damages sustained by a single patient and $3.9 million for an entire policy year. https://www.excellusbcbs.com/wps/wcm/connect/b7cdbf66-dd6b-4fb0-9612-47112e93c9f7/Med+Malpractice+FS+2013-EX+FINAL.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=b7cdbf66-dd6b-4fb0-9612-47112e93c9f7 What are Policy Limits? Policies specify the most that will be paid for any one claim, the "individual limit," and the most that will be paid in any policy year for all claims, the "aggregate limit." For example a policy with limits of $1,000,000/$3,000,000 will provide a maximum of $1M per claim and $3M for all claims during a policy term. The limits that are needed should be discussed with the insurer or your representative. In some states, insureds carry limits are low as $100,000/$300,000. The limits generally taken across the country are $1,000,000/$3,000,000. http://www.cisinsurance.com/FAQ/all-faqs.cfm As I said, each state has different requirements as to the minimum a physician must carry. http://www.ama-assn.org//resources/doc/arc/state-laws-mandating-minimum-insurance.pdf Interestingly enough, some states allow physicians to self insure under certain conditions, bypassing the need to medical malpratice insurance.

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