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Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/1/2013 5:23:19 PM   
cloudboy


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I saw this in the Baltimore City Courthouse in the property records division. It was taped to a bulletin board.

*Congressional Reform Act of 2011*
1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no
pay when they are out of office.

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.

---------

The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work. If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Maybe it is time.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/1/2013 5:30:18 PM >
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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/1/2013 5:35:38 PM   
cloudboy


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One truly wonders why anyone in Congress would propose or go along with such an amendment. The theory behind this Amendment is to insure that Congress doesn't lose touch with the lives and concerns of the American people. It also seeks to prevent them from achieving unjust enrichment while in Congress.

There is no prohibition on lobbying and no campaign finance component. There is also no way to close the back door of Congressional favors for members when they leave Congress.

----------

What strikes me is how neither our executive or Congressional leaders have any broad based ideas to Amend the Constitution.

I for one would like to see the line-item veto added, so the executive could veto riders in Bills.

Warren Buffet proposed the following:

"I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election.

If this was adopted, than what would happen in War Time?

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/1/2013 5:36:48 PM >

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/1/2013 5:39:32 PM   
TheHeretic


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Even if it just a pipedream of a proposal, I'd like to see the addition of mandatory minimum prison sentences for corruption.

(Why would they tape it to a bulletin board, instead of using pushpins???)

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/1/2013 5:46:31 PM   
cloudboy


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It was actually taped to a desktop, not a bulletin board.

I'm not a fan of mandatory prison sentences because I prefer to have broad discretion vested in the judiciary. If you want to eliminate corruption, the better option would be to eliminate the source / need / temptation. For instance the proposed Amendment above might actually push Congressmen to seek under the table money to compensate for their fixed salaries and pedestrian health plans.

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/1/2013 5:55:22 PM   
TheHeretic


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Frankly, the proposal sounds like it could have been written by either one of the douchebag anti-war candidates who took on a mainstream Dem incumbent is 2006, or a tea party asshat candidate who did the same in '10.

Fun to play with, though.

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/1/2013 8:11:20 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I saw this in the Baltimore City Courthouse in the property records division. It was taped to a bulletin board.
*Congressional Reform Act of 2011*
1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no
pay when they are out of office.


Totally in favor of this.

quote:

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.


Can't fuck past members. There would have to be some sort of "ramp in" phase so that those close to retirement or who have done nothing but served in Congress. There has to be something to cover them.

quote:

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.
4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.


I think it should be linked to the same thing as Social Security.

quote:

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.
6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.


Yup, and Yup.

quote:

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.


No. Could you imagine all the shit that could happen if that was true?

quote:

---------
The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work. If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Maybe it is time.


Amending the Constitution
    quote:

    There are essentially two ways spelled out in the Constitution for how to propose an amendment. One has never been used.

    The first method is for a bill to pass both houses of the legislature, by a two-thirds majority in each. Once the bill has passed both houses, it goes on to the states. This is the route taken by all current amendments. Because of some long outstanding amendments, such as the 27th, Congress will normally put a time limit (typically seven years) for the bill to be approved as an amendment (for example, see the 21st and 22nd).

    The second method prescribed is for a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States, and for that Convention to propose one or more amendments. These amendments are then sent to the states to be approved by three-fourths of the legislatures or conventions. This route has never been taken, and there is discussion in political science circles about just how such a convention would be convened, and what kind of changes it would bring about.

    Regardless of which of the two proposal routes is taken, the amendment must be ratified, or approved, by three-fourths of states. There are two ways to do this, too. The text of the amendment may specify whether the bill must be passed by the state legislatures or by a state convention. See the Ratification Convention Page for a discussion of the make up of a convention. Amendments are sent to the legislatures of the states by default. Only one amendment, the 21st, specified a convention. In any case, passage by the legislature or convention is by simple majority.

    The Constitution, then, spells out four paths for an amendment:

    Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used)
    Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used)
    Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once)
    Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)
    It is interesting to note that at no point does the President have a role in the formal amendment process (though he would be free to make his opinion known). He cannot veto an amendment proposal, nor a ratification. This point is clear in Article 5, and was reaffirmed by the Supreme Court in Hollingsworth v Virginia (3 US 378 [1798]):


It could be amended without any representatives bringing it through Congress.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/2/2013 7:17:58 AM   
vincentML


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~FR~

According to Snopes this 28th Amendment proposal and the Buffet comments are urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/28thamendment.asp

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/2/2013 8:29:00 AM   
cloudboy


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Such proposals certainly are not coming from anyone in a position of leadership. David Stockman, who was making the rounds to promote his 2013 book, thought that the only solution to US governmental problems is a series of constitutional amendments.

the machinery of the state and the machinery of re-election have become conterminous. Prying them apart would entail sweeping constitutional surgery: amendments to give the president and members of Congress a single six-year term, with no re-election; providing 100 percent public financing for candidates; strictly limiting the duration of campaigns (say, to eight weeks); and prohibiting, for life, lobbying by anyone who has been on a legislative or executive payroll. It would also require overturning Citizens United and mandating that Congress pass a balanced budget, or face an automatic sequester of spending.

It was interesting to read a conservative tout campaign finance reform -- and not regard money as "free speech." Many of his points cast him as realone's grandfather or contakerous uncle.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/2/2013 8:32:01 AM >

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/2/2013 8:39:03 AM   
MasterG2kTR


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It was actually Warren Buffet who made these proposals....and yes....I agree with them

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/buffett.asp


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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/2/2013 11:46:37 PM   
joether


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The idea is in all honestly is a waste of an amendment space. I suspect much of this comes out of right-wing talk radio show hosts that prey upon unsuspecting and ignorant conservative voters. An amendment should NEVER be used for one's petty politics to show. An 'Amendment' to the US Constitution is like a 'Theory' in Science or 'The Book of Genesis' to Christians; its a REALLY important concept! Taking this action simply opens the door to more stupid, petty crap in the future from both parties.

I can understand if your upset with Congress. With an approval rating according to Gallup.com of 16%, they REALLY have no business screwing around the way they do right now. Creating this stupid set of ideas really will do more harm to the nation over time than it will help. Don't like how Congress is operating, remove your own elected officials! Vote for someone that is in neither of the two big parties in the mid term elections next year. Or run for office yourself!

quote:


1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no
pay when they are out of office.


Show where this currently exists in Congress.

quote:


Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.


One does not purchase a retirement plan, one INVESTS in a retirement plan. Each of those in Congress will usually have funds set up for just that sort of financial plan in mind. Those whom are over the age to collect, are forced to do so, regardless of their income.

quote:


Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.


This is actually a violation of the US Constitution. The reasoning is found under the evil 'Commerce Clause'. I believe the last time it was raised, was by Republicans. Also, most of those simply give the money to charity groups anyways. The late and former US Representative from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Mr. Edward Kennedy did just that on each raise regardless of party.

quote:


Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.


What is it with conservatives that just do not get this concept. Its a total myth that Congress gets some special healthcare system that no other American (save for the rich) can gain access. They are given the option of healthcare like any other federal worker. Whether that worker is in the FBI, DOT, or White House.

quote:


Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.


A Congressional person is found murdering someone...THEY GO TO JAIL! At which point they are arraigned, given access to a lawyer if they can not provide one, given the chance to plead guilty/not guilty and rules for possible bail. Just like any other citizen. They do not get special treatment for violating the laws. They are not above the law. The President of the United States is given a special clearance from criminal actions due to his position. If an actual wrong doing does take place, it would be up to Congress to handle the problem.

quote:


All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.


WOW.....just WOW! (Shakes Head from side to side in total disbelief). You really do not understand what any part of that sentence means legally, financially, historically, or even just plainly, Constitutionally. I could sit here and try to explain this one, but I think it would be a waste of time.

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/3/2013 7:24:30 AM   
cloudboy


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Thanks for taking this thing to task. The amendment is really a swipe at elitism, tying the evils of Congress to privilege, corruption, and wealth. These evils destroy Congress ability to be "by the people and for the people," rendering the institution more a status symbol and self-enrichment club.

It was puzzling that the author never stroked a sentence about lobbying or campaign finance reform --- the root problems that disconnect office holders from their constituents.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/3/2013 7:25:46 AM >

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/3/2013 7:50:25 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Thanks for taking this thing to task. The amendment is really a swipe at elitism, tying the evils of Congress to privilege, corruption, and wealth. These evils destroy Congress ability to be "by the people and for the people," rendering the institution more a status symbol and self-enrichment club.
It was puzzling that the author never stroked a sentence about lobbying or campaign finance reform --- the root problems that disconnect office holders from their constituents.


Lobbyists and campaign finance abuses are symptoms, not underlying causes. If Congress can't be bought, it won't matter how much money lobbyists toss around, and it won't matter how much money is raised for campaigns.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/3/2013 10:40:57 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

The idea is in all honestly is a waste of an amendment space. I suspect much of this comes out of right-wing talk radio show hosts that prey upon unsuspecting and ignorant conservative voters. An amendment should NEVER be used for one's petty politics to show. An 'Amendment' to the US Constitution is like a 'Theory' in Science or 'The Book of Genesis' to Christians; its a REALLY important concept! Taking this action simply opens the door to more stupid, petty crap in the future from both parties.

This "28th Amendment" is just internet fiction. Not worth getting your dander up.

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/3/2013 12:00:38 PM   
JeffBC


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You know... all that is really interesting but it strikes me as putting bandaids on gaping wounds. If the problem is that our elected representatives are all scoundrels, crooks, and thieves out to line their own pockets at the expense of anyone they can then "more rules" doesn't seem like an effective solution. What seems effective is to demand honorable people and to vote them out religiously when they are found to not be honorable.

A quick look at any of the fact check sources will indicate that we don't do this.

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/6/2013 1:40:14 AM   
popeye1250


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Did you see that Moron Cong Mc Dermott (D. Washington state) at those hearings trying to blame the victims for being syied on by the IRS?
He's gotta go!

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RE: Amend the US Constitution 28th Amendment - 6/6/2013 7:54:43 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Did you see that Moron Cong Mc Dermott (D. Washington state) at those hearings trying to blame the victims for being syied on by the IRS?
He's gotta go!


Victims of what, exactly.....?




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